Oddysey
Well-Known Member
Al Lutz taking at shot at WDW in comparison to his precious DL. What a shocker.
Cant wait for Shenmue 3! :brick:
P.S. Sorry for the hijack.
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Al Lutz: Tom Staggs stepping back and reconsidering many aspects of FLE
- Thread starter aklodge
- Start date
Cant wait for Shenmue 3! :brick:
P.S. Sorry for the hijack.
DisneyParksFan1
Active Member
Al Lutz taking at shot at WDW in comparison to his precious DL. What a shocker.
Yeah not surprising at all. Typical.. Can't wait to see what he says if there's ever a turn-around.
I think they should leave that for the Pixar Place expansion.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
100% exactly what they were doing. But I'm getting a kick watching them backpeddle now! :lol:
Um no. The Pixie franchises are very profitable. Perhaps you are not the intended audience.
As for potter, all ticket prices are going up except Uni's local resident ticket prices. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if potter was hurting Disney they would be raising those prices too.
Spinning does not work on these forums.
Here's what I found:
• Magic Kingdom’s Fantasyland expansion, slated to open in two phases in 2012 and 2013, is already being retooled — specifically Pixie Hollow, the Disney fairy-themed area where Tinkerbell and friends would reside.
The reason: With an already princess-heavy theme with the construction of the Journey of the Little Mermaid ride and the Be Our Guest Restaurant themed after Beauty and the Beast, a section focused on fairies raises concerns about alienating Disney’s appeal to boys and not providing a broad appeal.
Link:
One would think that if Pixie Hollow/Disney Fairies were so profitable, Disney wouldn't be fretting over gender appeal. It would build the Pixie Hollow thing and then build an alternative attraction for boys. But that's just my take.
Uncle Lupe
Well-Known Member
This is all pure speculation, the rest of the articles "No firm details have surfaced about any Magic Kingdom changes and a Walt Disney World spokeswoman said there was no word about a retooling of Fantasyland or a Frontierland addition in the works for Disney’s top theme park, which recorded more than 17.2 million visitors last year"
I hope that FLE is completed to its full potential. I would like to see Pixie Hollow in some form. This franchise has given new life to a classic character and introduced another side to the role of Neverland and the other fairies. The expansion overall will be a crowd eater and give MK extra capacity it needs. So no matter what happens at least something is being done with the empty plots of land. Maybe phase 2 of Frontierland will be next, Thunder Mesa??
Off topic:
I think is the real problem with the theme park, $8.00 for a hot dog!!!!
I hope that FLE is completed to its full potential. I would like to see Pixie Hollow in some form. This franchise has given new life to a classic character and introduced another side to the role of Neverland and the other fairies. The expansion overall will be a crowd eater and give MK extra capacity it needs. So no matter what happens at least something is being done with the empty plots of land. Maybe phase 2 of Frontierland will be next, Thunder Mesa??
Off topic:
I think is the real problem with the theme park, $8.00 for a hot dog!!!!
DisneyNut2007
Active Member
Sorry, bud, but I very strongly disagree on your totally-wrong opinions.
I've been following this thread for the great and interesting, informative debates and opinions for a few days now because it overlapped a bit with the exec thread that also discussed where people feel TDO are going with things. And I just wanted to throw a few things out there. Please correct me if I'm wrong with some of the logistical stuff. I've been pondering how I feel about the Expansion and thought about a few things.
Saw footage of the unveiling of the concept art and explanation of the expansion. Adults were oohing and ahhing and that was nice to see.
Mickey's Toon Town Fair which is the youngest "land" in the park. Do we consider it a true land, (for the experts? ) has been Mickey's Birthdayland, Starland, and I really think the name might have changed a couple more times as well. I remember even being very young and thinking that all the name changes and playing around with the land concept to be not a good sign even in my teens. Some components have been exactly what they are now trying to do with parts of the FLE. And Town Fair, I believe, is now on the outs. It has buildings, meet and greets, and now it is being replaced.
What I'm saying is, do you think the princess area, or if they keep the pixie hollow area, will go the same way in a few years? Not sure if the area will ever reach the status of other attractions, SM, POTC, etc. as legends of MK, but that is if one even considers M&G's attractions.
Oh, the Beauty and the Beast restaurant, Gaston quick service, Dumbo and mermaid ride will probably always be packed. And besides siphoning off the flow to the Cinderella table service as the the plan, these things will also ensure that the M&G areas have an income and crowds. Plus, I didn't hear about the shops that I would guess will be in the area of the princess abodes. Will the BB boutique for girls also be moved?
Does anyone think that the huge area designated for buildings and M&G's will have a strong following and then dwindle like what seemed to be happening to Town Fair? Children and adults still go there but I'm not sure it is as packed as when it was I think first called Mickey's Birthdayland, and Disney seems to think it is not an asset because they are replacing it.
So, if Mickey and Minnie's houses, and the other areas around it, Donald's boat, barnstormer, etc., If they can't make it, main characters, icons, that appeal to both boys and girls and adults, can the princess areas (take out the restaurant, Dumbo and LM ride from the equation) sustain itself for the generations and the long haul? Because this is a big piece of property once the princess homes and possible PH is built.
Will saturation of the princess and fairies brand and being too accessible eventually drain interest? Will they turn around in years and say such a big area is not maximizing enought profit and regret it and wish to replace it, which is always a concern to most business execs? Not with very small girls, I know. Girls anywhere from say like 2-10 or so will always be interested and naturally children are born every year obviously so they will always have that target demographic to be sure.
But I did say in another thread that if I think back to about say 5 years ago, I saw a lot more princess costumes and products with their logo on it then I do now when you see little girls walking around with toys in general. My seven year old neice cares a wrap about the princesses. All her stuff is Hannah Montana and Demi and Jonas Bros. Her preference and choices while shopping and for birthday requests and letters to Santa for Christmas gifts. And I think a part of it is liking what the "big girls," girls a few years older than her likes, which we sometimes forget as we get older that children deem very important what older children think and like at certain times.
A very large, space-taking, expensive, and ambitious project but will it stand the test of time. Not sure. Not that I am against it. If done right the park will look spectacular but after you get a princess autograph, and see a "show" or interact a few times, than what? Will little girls get the same autograph and stand in line every year? And I know that there will be activities and interaction but Town Fair did that too on a much smaller scale and smaller area. And, er, the mouse is getting evicted.
Just my two cents because I am on the fence about certain things long term.
Then there are big group visits or limited visits. For example, the year my brother had a sports tournament competition in elementary school. We had one day off to go anyhere we wanted to in Orlando and the unanimous vote was MK. So we arrived and then had to decide that since this wasn't our usual annual week or so for vaction, what to do with the allotted 8-10 hours. Well, it was Space, Thunder, POTC, etc., and Town Fair and meet and greets were last on the list.
Also, does anyone feel that the princess area steals the thunder of the park icon, Cinderella's castle?
I also thought about merchandising strategy in response to Potter. I am a huge Harry Potter fan, books and somewhat the movies, and I collect stuff. I think it is a different thing. Potter is multi-layered and as epic as Star Wars and maybe even Lord of the Rings with merchandise opportunities that go far beyond just children. Between the myriad characters, creatures, objects from the books, the merchandising ideas are endless and appeal to many more ages and genders. Let's take just the wands for example. Almost every character has their own and that is not a dent of the variety of things that can be sold to people. I believe there is one store in WWOHP just for that. It will be a hard and swift challenge to the DO.
Saw footage of the unveiling of the concept art and explanation of the expansion. Adults were oohing and ahhing and that was nice to see.
Mickey's Toon Town Fair which is the youngest "land" in the park. Do we consider it a true land, (for the experts? ) has been Mickey's Birthdayland, Starland, and I really think the name might have changed a couple more times as well. I remember even being very young and thinking that all the name changes and playing around with the land concept to be not a good sign even in my teens. Some components have been exactly what they are now trying to do with parts of the FLE. And Town Fair, I believe, is now on the outs. It has buildings, meet and greets, and now it is being replaced.
What I'm saying is, do you think the princess area, or if they keep the pixie hollow area, will go the same way in a few years? Not sure if the area will ever reach the status of other attractions, SM, POTC, etc. as legends of MK, but that is if one even considers M&G's attractions.
Oh, the Beauty and the Beast restaurant, Gaston quick service, Dumbo and mermaid ride will probably always be packed. And besides siphoning off the flow to the Cinderella table service as the the plan, these things will also ensure that the M&G areas have an income and crowds. Plus, I didn't hear about the shops that I would guess will be in the area of the princess abodes. Will the BB boutique for girls also be moved?
Does anyone think that the huge area designated for buildings and M&G's will have a strong following and then dwindle like what seemed to be happening to Town Fair? Children and adults still go there but I'm not sure it is as packed as when it was I think first called Mickey's Birthdayland, and Disney seems to think it is not an asset because they are replacing it.
So, if Mickey and Minnie's houses, and the other areas around it, Donald's boat, barnstormer, etc., If they can't make it, main characters, icons, that appeal to both boys and girls and adults, can the princess areas (take out the restaurant, Dumbo and LM ride from the equation) sustain itself for the generations and the long haul? Because this is a big piece of property once the princess homes and possible PH is built.
Will saturation of the princess and fairies brand and being too accessible eventually drain interest? Will they turn around in years and say such a big area is not maximizing enought profit and regret it and wish to replace it, which is always a concern to most business execs? Not with very small girls, I know. Girls anywhere from say like 2-10 or so will always be interested and naturally children are born every year obviously so they will always have that target demographic to be sure.
But I did say in another thread that if I think back to about say 5 years ago, I saw a lot more princess costumes and products with their logo on it then I do now when you see little girls walking around with toys in general. My seven year old neice cares a wrap about the princesses. All her stuff is Hannah Montana and Demi and Jonas Bros. Her preference and choices while shopping and for birthday requests and letters to Santa for Christmas gifts. And I think a part of it is liking what the "big girls," girls a few years older than her likes, which we sometimes forget as we get older that children deem very important what older children think and like at certain times.
A very large, space-taking, expensive, and ambitious project but will it stand the test of time. Not sure. Not that I am against it. If done right the park will look spectacular but after you get a princess autograph, and see a "show" or interact a few times, than what? Will little girls get the same autograph and stand in line every year? And I know that there will be activities and interaction but Town Fair did that too on a much smaller scale and smaller area. And, er, the mouse is getting evicted.
Just my two cents because I am on the fence about certain things long term.
Then there are big group visits or limited visits. For example, the year my brother had a sports tournament competition in elementary school. We had one day off to go anyhere we wanted to in Orlando and the unanimous vote was MK. So we arrived and then had to decide that since this wasn't our usual annual week or so for vaction, what to do with the allotted 8-10 hours. Well, it was Space, Thunder, POTC, etc., and Town Fair and meet and greets were last on the list.
Also, does anyone feel that the princess area steals the thunder of the park icon, Cinderella's castle?
I also thought about merchandising strategy in response to Potter. I am a huge Harry Potter fan, books and somewhat the movies, and I collect stuff. I think it is a different thing. Potter is multi-layered and as epic as Star Wars and maybe even Lord of the Rings with merchandise opportunities that go far beyond just children. Between the myriad characters, creatures, objects from the books, the merchandising ideas are endless and appeal to many more ages and genders. Let's take just the wands for example. Almost every character has their own and that is not a dent of the variety of things that can be sold to people. I believe there is one store in WWOHP just for that. It will be a hard and swift challenge to the DO.
DisneyParksFan1
Active Member
Yes, that's also what many of us worry about. What if this ends up being a temporary surge of Princess hype? Even as we speak, it's beginning to die down what with the less-than-stellar success of Princess and the Frog. So does Disney know what they are doing? Better yet... Does TDO know what they are doing? Did Jay Rasulo know what he was doing? Now Tom Staggs steps in and with the mind of a CFO, sees these issues and makes an attempt to address them. He ends up getting his way, and sure I guess they will end up replacing PH with something more boy-centric that reaches to a wider demographic.
Now that that's done, what about the issue that is being discussed? What if it ends up being a temporary success and ends up being forgotten? As Mrs. Toad mentioned, I don't think that this will be something that people will want to go on again and again, excluding BoG and TLM. So I don't know what it is they are doing, and I don't think they do either, but whatever it is they are throwing out there isn't good. I'm glad they are knowing taking time to step back and rethink this a little bit. This time with at least half a brain.
DisneyNut2007
Active Member
Nope. Highly unlikely.
And to elaborate further on my seven year old niece, I will mention all her friends too. Last Halloween was Hannah Montana costumes, and Christmas was Jonas Bros. and Hannah logo items. The dolls, microphones, etc. The birthday parties for her and the ones of her friends, (around 7 and 8 years old) contained Hannah, Jonas, Demi, Camp Rock music, favors, plates, napkins, etc, and gifts. Not a princess item in sight. Actually, when we asked her parents for birthday gift suggestions, I was told the princesses had lost her favor. Also, Halloween costume ideas were thrown around for this coming October and the princesses weren't an option either.
I can guess that she lost interest at about five or 6 years old.
I can guess that she lost interest at about five or 6 years old.
aladdin2007
Well-Known Member
No, and I hope not. Theres enough toy story as it is. If that were to be the case it would end up in frontierland but that isnt happening either. From what I have seen of the toy story playland thing going to hong kong, its really nothing more than a glorified dinorama like at AK. MK deserves better than that.
jt04
Well-Known Member
This is all pure speculation, the rest of the articles "No firm details have surfaced about any Magic Kingdom changes and a Walt Disney World spokeswoman said there was no word about a retooling of Fantasyland or a Frontierland addition in the works for Disney’s top theme park, which recorded more than 17.2 million visitors last year"
I hope that FLE is completed to its full potential. I would like to see Pixie Hollow in some form. This franchise has given new life to a classic character and introduced another side to the role of Neverland and the other fairies. The expansion overall will be a crowd eater and give MK extra capacity it needs. So no matter what happens at least something is being done with the empty plots of land. Maybe phase 2 of Frontierland will be next, Thunder Mesa??
Off topic:
I think is the real problem with the theme park, $8.00 for a hot dog!!!!
Great posting and funny
Disney has been making money off of princesses, classic fairy tales and lore since the 1930's. That is because the themes enchant children and are timeless. So unless we suddenly see people stop having children (kind of doubt that) then the franchises will always work. There will always be an ebb and flow to what is popular but something will always be the in franchise. That is also why the m&g's will remain popular with young children and their parents. Disney is working on a live action Tink movie so obviously they are not seeing a fall off in demand for the characters.
Second, the Tom Skaggs rumor is still just that, a rumor. Personally I believe it was deliberate disinformation leaked to quiet all the fanboy temper tantrums and near manic whining. That is why all the fanboys are wailing for the slightest hint about any changes to phase 2. They fear the FLE :drevil::lol:
I also think the FLE scares the crap out of the potter fanatics for reasons I have already covered.
Oh, and about Potter....Let me preface my comments and say that I am a huge Harry Potter fan, but I can take a step back and look at it objectively.
I am going to Orlando on my honeymoon for 10 days next year.
Am I going to Islands to see WWOHP?
Yes. One day, every other will be spent at WDW.
Am I going to buy stuff?
Yes.
But I haven't been there yet and have been following its development, construction, etc, until its recent unveiling.
I have researched pictures, their website, reviews, youtube videos of people that were there and more and I have to say that I thought it would be better, even though I think it is quite great, and I think that it will have a very wonderful 5 years or so, some heavy profit with the merchandising, but I think it will be a continued success and then will dwindle too. Perhaps after the last two movies are released because some of the fanfic and other HP sites have declined in numbers, still strong, but not like before the 7th book was published.
I agree that FLE does have Universal apprehensive.
My impressions:
Flight of the hippogriff is Thunder Mountain with an eagle head attached to the front car.
One ride is a flight simulator and they age quick. I will discuss the castle tour in a minute.
Dragon coaster really is dueling dragons just re-named.
Where are the breakthrough rides I thought were coming?
One quick service where there could be adorable table service concepts too. Universal doesn't seem to like table service much. That is a plus for Disney but food quality has gone down. Count how many there are in both of their parks and you stop on one hand.
Now if they had a table service that resembled the Great Hall and you sat at different House tables, and in Hogwarts castle. My God, they'd pack 'em in!
Seems like Universal reserved most of its table service for the park hotels and City Walk. That's fine. It was their response to Downtown Disney.
Now I am hearing that the quick service is very expensive and so-so. Biggest complaint is the shepherd's pie. Great fish and chips, but as good as Rose & Crown (Harry Ramsden)? I will check this out.
Now the castle....many are aggrivated that you can't truly walk through it and its potential was not maximized. True you kind of go through the bottom of it and I thought the tour of Dumbledore's office, the portraits, sorting hat, and the appearance of the trio cute, but I think it will get old.
Remember the Bates building for Psycho at Universal that has since been removed? A glorified cardboard cut-out? Could have had something similar to HM in Liberty Square. Never took advantage of it. Poor Hitchcock.
The shops are very expensive, I heard that some wands are 40 plus dollars. Now, don't get me wrong, some items are awesome if you are a fan and will always please kids, but there is some disappointment here.
I will leave the other shops, which is mostly what WWOHP is comprised of, and say that Honeydukes candy store could have been better. There are some awesome interpretations of the candy from the books but a whole lot more candies in very generic glass jars and plastic packaging that just have a paper, pastel Honeydukes logo that frankly looks cheap and generic.
I think for now it is drawing crowds, people that had a choice between visiting one of four WDW parks who opted to take that day and go to WWOHP is a business loss, luring money from visitors who purchase merch, but in the long run Disney has nothing to be afraid of. I agree to that it will not hurt FLE and eventual attendance.
Now I was wondering if anyone heard if there were plans eventually to add to WWOHP, whether it be food, stores, rides, etc. in the wake of the FLE.
And I won't post about HP again because I am sure that there is a thread for that but comparisons were made to FLE so I thought it was ok to post here.
I am going to Orlando on my honeymoon for 10 days next year.
Am I going to Islands to see WWOHP?
Yes. One day, every other will be spent at WDW.
Am I going to buy stuff?
Yes.
But I haven't been there yet and have been following its development, construction, etc, until its recent unveiling.
I have researched pictures, their website, reviews, youtube videos of people that were there and more and I have to say that I thought it would be better, even though I think it is quite great, and I think that it will have a very wonderful 5 years or so, some heavy profit with the merchandising, but I think it will be a continued success and then will dwindle too. Perhaps after the last two movies are released because some of the fanfic and other HP sites have declined in numbers, still strong, but not like before the 7th book was published.
I agree that FLE does have Universal apprehensive.
My impressions:
Flight of the hippogriff is Thunder Mountain with an eagle head attached to the front car.
One ride is a flight simulator and they age quick. I will discuss the castle tour in a minute.
Dragon coaster really is dueling dragons just re-named.
Where are the breakthrough rides I thought were coming?
One quick service where there could be adorable table service concepts too. Universal doesn't seem to like table service much. That is a plus for Disney but food quality has gone down. Count how many there are in both of their parks and you stop on one hand.
Now if they had a table service that resembled the Great Hall and you sat at different House tables, and in Hogwarts castle. My God, they'd pack 'em in!
Seems like Universal reserved most of its table service for the park hotels and City Walk. That's fine. It was their response to Downtown Disney.
Now I am hearing that the quick service is very expensive and so-so. Biggest complaint is the shepherd's pie. Great fish and chips, but as good as Rose & Crown (Harry Ramsden)? I will check this out.
Now the castle....many are aggrivated that you can't truly walk through it and its potential was not maximized. True you kind of go through the bottom of it and I thought the tour of Dumbledore's office, the portraits, sorting hat, and the appearance of the trio cute, but I think it will get old.
Remember the Bates building for Psycho at Universal that has since been removed? A glorified cardboard cut-out? Could have had something similar to HM in Liberty Square. Never took advantage of it. Poor Hitchcock.
The shops are very expensive, I heard that some wands are 40 plus dollars. Now, don't get me wrong, some items are awesome if you are a fan and will always please kids, but there is some disappointment here.
I will leave the other shops, which is mostly what WWOHP is comprised of, and say that Honeydukes candy store could have been better. There are some awesome interpretations of the candy from the books but a whole lot more candies in very generic glass jars and plastic packaging that just have a paper, pastel Honeydukes logo that frankly looks cheap and generic.
I think for now it is drawing crowds, people that had a choice between visiting one of four WDW parks who opted to take that day and go to WWOHP is a business loss, luring money from visitors who purchase merch, but in the long run Disney has nothing to be afraid of. I agree to that it will not hurt FLE and eventual attendance.
Now I was wondering if anyone heard if there were plans eventually to add to WWOHP, whether it be food, stores, rides, etc. in the wake of the FLE.
And I won't post about HP again because I am sure that there is a thread for that but comparisons were made to FLE so I thought it was ok to post here.
jt04
Well-Known Member
^ Agreed and I think they would be smart to film at least one scene outside of Poseiden's Fury at IoA and include it in one of the final potter films. They could digitally remove the Atlantis-esque stuff but keep in the overall scope of the "island". Because for potter to have the most impact it really needs to expand and add much more stuff for younger guests.
Not sure how they could retheme the fury ride to potter but I'm certain it could be done. Then they change the sinbad show (or whatever that is) to a potter show. Then Universal would have a real draw and something that could last much much longer.
Not sure how they could retheme the fury ride to potter but I'm certain it could be done. Then they change the sinbad show (or whatever that is) to a potter show. Then Universal would have a real draw and something that could last much much longer.
Giraffe Lounge
Member
^^
I think you should experience WWoHP and then post on it.... it's really pretty amazing. The fact that you categorize HPatFJ as a "motion similator" means that you're expectations aren't as high as the land delivers.
I think you should experience WWoHP and then post on it.... it's really pretty amazing. The fact that you categorize HPatFJ as a "motion similator" means that you're expectations aren't as high as the land delivers.
Giraffe Lounge
Member
I'm actually with you there, adding a live or SFX shows in one of those theaters seems like a missed opportunity... hopefully they add it sooner or later.
Oh, of course.
When I go in a few months, there is nothing like actually being there compared to video footage which is all I could look at right now.
All I have seen is footage from the what looks to be a simulator to me of Harry and the guests "flying" with him (er, very dark video footage.)
I will love it and it seems like great fun.
Not bashing it, but just like Back to the Future, Hannah Barbera, and the much loved Body Wars and Star Wars, unfortunately, they age when new technology develops.
When I go in a few months, there is nothing like actually being there compared to video footage which is all I could look at right now.
All I have seen is footage from the what looks to be a simulator to me of Harry and the guests "flying" with him (er, very dark video footage.)
I will love it and it seems like great fun.
Not bashing it, but just like Back to the Future, Hannah Barbera, and the much loved Body Wars and Star Wars, unfortunately, they age when new technology develops.
hpyhnt 1000
Well-Known Member
Believe me, its not Back to the Future or Star Tours where all you're doing is looking at a screen. If anything, it is MUCH more of a flying version of Spider Man. Forbidden Journey has its flaws, yes, but simply being another motion simulator isn't one of them.
misterID
Well-Known Member
If the "fanboy anger" concerned them enough to have to leak out intentional disinformation, well, I'd think that anger would also concern them enough to rethink the FLE.
The FLE scares Uni or Potterheads?
:ROFLOL:
Seriously?
About as much as Uni or the Potterheads scare WDW......