Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

[DocMcHulk]

"TDO execs were also told to stop value-engineering the project into a smaller footprint with fewer offerings and let WDI do their work. "
I like that.

2015 seems optimistic. and of course it'll open a few months after I'll be visiting in 2015... just like New Fantasyland opened a few months after my most recent visit. I have no luck at all!!

 

[DocMcHulk]

Anyone else picked up what he said about Avatar? The last we had heard was that it was back on track – Al seems to be hearing that it's gone off the rails again.

Lee, Spirit, Raven? Anyone know what the current state of it is?

Nothing would make me happier than hearing that Avatar has been cancelled.

I believe I've read here by one... or several of them... that it was "off the rails" again.

 

[Hoop Raeb]

While I agree a grand reveal of the entire project would have been nice (rather than piece by piece), did anyone actually think this was going to be a major draw???

My opinion, yes, TDO thought this was going to be as big of a draw as Carsland. Normal people outside of the hype that have seen both (myself incuded) know that its apples and oranges. Carsland is a great immersive environment with a big ticket attraction. I can't even imagine how much blue juice you have to drink to convince yourself they're going to draw the same number of people. Why can't we figure this out?

1. Spend a lot of money on a great themed land
2. ?
3. Profit

But all we read about is how they're already trying to value-size the project. Crap in = crap out. You want to pull millions of more guests to WDW like DCA did? Put the money into it and build it right.

/soapbox

 

[djkidkaz]

I wish they would just announce this already! Im getting so impatient waiting for something new and exciting to get goin ( NOT Avatar ). Build all of Carsland, minus Luigis. Use Luigi money for Monsters Inc coaster and we're good.

 

[Ignohippo]

My opinion, yes, TDO thought this was going to be as big of a draw as Carsland. Normal people outside of the hype that have seen both (myself incuded) know that its apples and oranges. Carsland is a great immersive environment with a big ticket attraction. I can't even imagine how much blue juice you have to drink to convince yourself they're going to draw the same number of people. Why can't we figure this out?

1. Spend a lot of money on a great themed land
2. ?
3. Profit

But all we read about is how they're already trying to value-size the project. Crap in = crap out. You want to pull millions of more guests to WDW like DCA did? Put the money into it and build it right.

/soapbox

Well said!

 

[hiptwinmama]

I just finished reading the article. Very interesting stuff. The fact that Fantasyland isn't bumping up attendance or scoring well on guest surveys should come as absolutely NO surprise to anyone. Any executive who thought it was going to "move the needle" at WDW was either incredibly unfamiliar with the project, or was lying to self and others.

With that said, it will be very interesting to see what happens with Carsland. If they are planning on a 2015 opening, they will need to be closing the Backlot and stunt show any day now. I guess we will be finding out some answers very soon....finally...

I think the be WOW factor for the FLE comes with a new E-ticket attraction or two. That will come when SDMC opens. We go in a few weeks, and I am really only super excited to see the Circus area. The rest is just filler until SDMC opens.

I for one would love to see Carsland at WDW, I know I am the only one. But we are close enough to drive to WDW and we would do so for cars, vs flying the whole family to DL.

 

[Lee]

Anyone else picked up what he said about Avatar? The last we had heard was that it was back on track – Al seems to be hearing that it's gone off the rails again.

Lee, Spirit, Raven? Anyone know what the current state of it is?

Nothing would make me happier than hearing that Avatar has been cancelled.

It isn't cancelled, yet.

Avatar is broken down by the side of the road. Hood up. Smoke billowing out.

Rohde is desperately poking around under the hood, trying to get it running. It's his only ride, so he's not giving up.
Cameron is standing off to the side, arms crossed, tapping his foot. The look on his face saying, "Well...?"

Iger and Staggs have walked down the road aways, trying to stick out their thumbs in an inconspicuous way. Hoping a grinning wrecker might save the day.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm a little surprised the Iron Man ride got delayed, with much work being done already, but it makes sense if they want to roll out a whole TL makeover at one time. The FLE model of rollout just doesn't work.

I'm actually most surprised that the big redo of Tomorrowland concept is back after the dud of Tomorrowland '98. I'm also not too keen on the idea as Tomorrowland's issues go beyond aesthetic but I do not see big changes coming to attraction content.

I still believe CircusLand is what killed the FLE. No one even talks about it. Had the entire area been used for the FLE, you'd have a much grander expansion and many more things to offer. Doing CircusLand on the cheap (and trying to base a whole land on a spinner and a previously successful retail location) has seriously diminished what they were trying to accomplish with the FLE.

I think something closer to Dumbo's Circusland would have been far more engaging and exciting than what was built in Storybook Circus, which is not much more than a better looking ToonTown Fair.

 

[MichWolv]

Carsland in DHS would be great, if they can get RSR running consistently, which it was not on my 4 day visit to Disneyland in November. MJJ is a good kiddie-thrill ride, and DHS needs that (and more). Luigi's is a failure of a ride concept, so not building it seems like a no-brainer, excuse of water table or not.

I hope, though, that a smaller Carsland at DHS is done as part of an expansion of Pixar Place to include small lands/areas of a number of movies. This doesn't have to be done extravagantly or particularly expensively to be succesful. Toy Story Playland at the Studio park in Paris is a wonderfully themed land that is missing an actual good ride. At DHS, the good ride is already there, and they could add a little Toy Story Playland area with two of the Paris rides, thus making a little Toy Story Land. Then bring in the Monster's Inc. coaster and/or Ride n go Seek (or better yet, both rides in the same building and sets), along with a couple of snack areas. And then a smaller Carsland with MJJ, RSR, Flo's Cafe, and about 2/3 of the street that is in DHS. Now you've got four Pixar movies with substantial, but not overwhelming, representation in Pixar Place. Do it over a 5-6 year period and watch the crowds grow.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

For what it's worth (which I recognize is not a heck of a lot since this is purely anecdotal), I just came back from WDW about a week ago, and the crowds were MUCH higher than previous January trips I've done. The primary difference between this trip and previous trips is the FLE. Perhaps the crowds aren't increased as much as the folks at Disney were hoping, but they definitely seemed to be increased during my time there...

We were at WDW on 1/22 and I agree attendance felt significantly higher than other January visits we've made. While FLE is something different this January, I would also give some weight to free dining being offered and heavily advertised. I know in the late fall I was receiving emails like every other day inviting me to partake of free dining. Free dining has certainly transformed Septembers more and more as the years have gone by.

 

[menamechris]

I think the be WOW factor for the FLE comes with a new E-ticket attraction or two. That will come when SDMC opens. We go in a few weeks, and I am really only super excited to see the Circus area. The rest is just filler until SDMC opens.

I have high hopes for the coaster, but it will certainly not be an E ticket. Hopefully it will be a cute little kiddie coaster that I will be amused enough to want to ride more than once. In fact, it would be the only addition to FLE that would have that effect on me...

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Sorry, I hate to compare this to Harry Potter because it's been done so many times before...but WDW doesn't "get it."

Harry Potter opens up and it has completely put IoA/UniOrlando on the map...
If you really think about it...
1. One groundbreaking new attraction.
2. Retheming of the land.
3. Retheming of a major attraction.
4. Retheming of a children's coaster.
5. Retheming of restaurants and shops.

Now...Fantasyland...to DATE (Excluding 7DMT)
1. One cloned attraction
2. One new restaurant
3. Retheming of a land where kid's could visit the homes of their favorite characters to a circus.
4. Retheming of a children's coaster.
5. Loss of attraction (Snow White)

What is the MAJOR difference if you break it down?
We have a GROUNDBREAKING NEW ATTRACTION! (Yes, Anything with Harry Potter slapped on it would open eyes...but if there is no substance, the name only means so much)

So...because Fantasyland didn't reach expectations...we're going to do a cloned land which isn't even the "full land."
Will that get people to rush to WDW if they've already been to DL? On the flipside...most visit WDW...so will they bother going to DL if they can experience this great land at WDW?

That's why people are pushing Star Wars Land. It's new...it's wanted...it could be groundbreaking...it could put the Studios on the map and bring in people in droves!

 

[Pentacat]

It isn't cancelled, yet.

Avatar is broken down by the side of the road. Hood up. Smoke billowing out.

Rohde is desperately poking around under the hood, trying to get it running. It's his only ride, so he's not giving up.
Cameron is standing off to the side, arms crossed, tapping his foot. The look on his face saying, "Well...?"

Iger and Staggs have walked down the road aways, trying to stick out their thumbs in an inconspicuous way. Hoping a grinning wrecker might save the day.

You have to think that the Lucasfilm purchase as thrown some serious cold water on this relationship.

The Imagineers have to be thinking.....sure Pandora's cool and all but what about Endor, Hoth, Tatooine or any other number of fabulous Star Wars locations that Disney no longer has to pay a huge licensing fee to use. Not to mention that WDI would only be beholden to TWDC without having someone like Cameron micromanaging their creative choices. Ok, that last part could be pro or con.

Has there been a formal contract between Disney and Cameron? Has money changed hands? It looks a lot to me like Disney is trying to ice Cameron out and make him walk away. Of course that could just drive him to the competition like they did with Rowling. That worked out well in the end, right?

 

[GrumpyFan]

Iger and Staggs have walked down the road aways, trying to stick out their thumbs in an inconspicuous way. Hoping a grinning wrecker might save the day.

I just had a vision of 'Mater screaming down the road "YeeeHaw" and screeching to a halt in front of them, saying, "Y'all need a lift?".
Sorry, it's crude, I don't want to see Carsland, but this is just the first thing that came to my mind.

I still think a Lion King themed area would be a better fit than Avatar.

 

[hiptwinmama]

I don't think the Cloned rides are as big an issue as the slow opening little by little and all the re-themed rides, that really weren't re-themed just remodeled, renovated, or moved.

Just imagine if you went 2 years ago, then didn't go back till next year then poof.... all of the changes were in place. It would seem much more awesome!

 

[thomas998]

Al Lutz is reporting that Carsland, sans Luigi's is being fast-tracked for DHS, and that WDI is being given a decent budget. Supposedly the high water table in Florida means Luigi's basement/equipment can't be built. Wonder if another ride will be imagined for this part of Carsland? No Iron Man in Tomorrowland in Disneyland for now (maybe a massive Tomorrowland project including E Ticket in the Future).

http://micechat.com/21154-hello/

Supposedly Burbank thinks that FLE is a less than stellar success because it is being rolled out one piece at a time.

I hate to say it but Carsland is a bit of a stinker. We went to DL last fall in part because we thought Carsland being new would make it an enjoyable trip. Sorry, but Luigi's really didn't work... half the tires would really just sit there with people trying in vain to get them to move... Radiator Spring Racers are buggy and tend to have multiple ride failures... sure it was popular but not worth the hype, just a sort of revision of test track.... The only ride that was really worth anything was Mater's Junkyard... but it isn't a E ticket ride, probably on par with the tea cups.

 

[hiptwinmama]

I would love to see what WDI could do with the left side of DHS if given the go ahead to do some heavy starwars re-themeing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think this also shows how little Disney thinks of their Florida "guests." Why would people flock to see a new ride that Disney knows already got a luck warm response the first time it opened?

 

[BrightImagine]

FLE is very uncomfortable to visit right now. There is no throughway between Ariel's Grotto and Storybook Circus, so when you walk all the way down the pathway from Enchanted Tales to Ariel's Grotto, you are trapped and must go back the way you came. We were there recently and this traffic pattern, combined perhaps with Splash being down, made it really crowded and difficult to navigate. I personally don't feel like returning until the Mine Train portion is done.

 

[cmeller]

This is great news about Carsland. RSR looks like such a awesome ride..not too thrilling but very themed so the whole family can enjoy. That's what makes Disney .. Disney, finding a way to make attractions (not rides) that the whole family can and will enjoy. No need for super coasters or rides with a 48 inch requirement.

I agree that Avatar land should be scrapped and all resources should be used for a StarWars area for Disney. SW has such a draw for all ages...from 2 to 80. It's a no brainer.