Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

[Figments Friend]

FLE is very uncomfortable to visit right now. There is no throughway between Ariel's Grotto and Storybook Circus, so when you walk all the way down the pathway from Enchanted Tales to Ariel's Grotto, you are trapped and must go back the way you came. We were there recently and this traffic pattern, combined perhaps with Splash being down, made it really crowded and difficult to navigate. I personally don't feel like returning until the Mine Train portion is done.

Yes, that dead end was a surprise to me. There were CMs stationed there to guide people back the other way, as folks were heading into Ariel*s Grotto thinking it was the pathway to Storybook Circus!

I did not experience any crowd issues the day i visited though...i guess i was lucky. I can imagine it being a terrible bottleneck though with large crowds, not only because of the dead end, but also the masses of strollers parked across from Mermaid.

 

[SirLink]

I guess I need more to work on then the "sigh". Why do you think it would be anti-climatic. What major event in recent DHS history would cause it to be anti-climatic.

Considering DHS is more of a thematic mess than DCA 1.0 was, it needs a makeover - and simply adding just Cars Land would add to confusion fusion of what the park is supposed to be, are we celebrating any IP that makes us more than a Billion?, movies in general? or the romanticised notion of Hollywood?

 

[Lexxweb]

FLE = Fantasyland Expansion? I'm lost

 

[ThemeParks4Life]

FLE = Fantasyland Expansion? I'm lost

Yep.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Considering DHS is more of a thematic mess than DCA 1.0 was, it needs a makeover - and simply adding just Cars Land would add to confusion fusion of what the park is supposed to be, are we celebrating any IP that makes us more than a Billion?, movies in general? or the romanticised notion of Hollywood?

Most Disney parks don't have THAT cohesive of a theme anyway. I'd be happy with fantastic attractions that are story-driven. Even Tokyo Disney Sea, which gives most of us nightly wet dreams, doesn't have that cohesive of a theme. It just has fantastic attractions.

 

[SirLink]

Most Disney parks don't have THAT cohesive of a theme anyway. I'd be happy with fantastic attractions that are story-driven. Even Tokyo Disney Sea, which gives most of us nightly wet dreams, doesn't have that cohesive of a theme. It just has fantastic attractions.

TDS does have a cohesive theme, that is the problem, the only park that has that in Florida is DAK.

 

[|Q|]

Why do you think it would be anti-climatic? What major event in recent DHS history would cause it to be anti-climatic? I think it would be the biggest thing to happen to all of WDW in a decade, if not longer.

And yet is a clone.

Q

 

[Brian Noble]

I hate to say it but Carsland is a bit of a stinker.

Except for the whole drawing an insane crowd to a previously struggling theme park part.

 

[OFTeric]

If anyone wants to know how you are supposed to work with James Cameron I highly suggest listening to this Seasonpass episode. Where they talk about how they built MIB at Universal, and how T2:3D was created.

http://seasonpasspodcast.libsyn.com...-attack-at-uni-studios-florida-part-2-12-9-12

You kind of begin to realize that people at WDI approached James Cameron in the wrong way.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Walt did say that, or something similar, but he was talking about movies. He wasn't talking about about theme parks 3000 miles from each other. That poor man has been convenience quoted more then the bible. My guess is that those that are against it, are either West Coast dwellers or have access to both coasts on a regular basis. I think most of us on the East Coast are looking forward to Carsland in WDW. I know it will create a trip to WDW from me. I want to see it, but not enough to go to California to do so.

When Walt was involved with "the Florida Project" he had pulled himself away from the details of Magic Kingdom, but being as much of a micro-manager that he was, I doubt that he didn't look at the original plans and give them his blessing. If I recall, a lot of things that were in Disneyland were going to end up in Disneyworld as well. The pigs didn't apply to this.

I understand that some copying/cloning is expected, and perhaps even tolerable. But, there comes a point when I think they should try and add some differentiation between the parks and attractions to give them enough of a reason for somebody to go to the other. Will they lose business if they clone it, probably not, or at least not a lot. But, I just think it waters down the brand. Like I said, they have plenty of other material and stories they could build from, that could be just as good, maybe even better.
I'm not a West Coast dweller, but I have been to DL a few times, just not since DCA was built. With the addition of Carsland, I am wanting to try and get out there again, however, if they build that in DHS, my desire and likelihood of going back in the next 10 years is severely diminished.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I could see them axing Luigi's, axing the Ridemakerz building and potentially using that money for another Pixar franchise (Monster's Inc)

 

[danlb_2000]

Does this mean the MI, Incredibles and Ratatouille rumours will stay as nothing more than just rumours?

i think everything being discussed it nothing more then just rumors until there is an official announcement.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Considering DHS is more of a thematic mess than DCA 1.0 was, it needs a makeover - and simply adding just Cars Land would add to confusion fusion of what the park is supposed to be, are we celebrating any IP that makes us more than a Billion?, movies in general? or the romanticised notion of Hollywood?

In all honesty, the romanticized notion of Hollywood, was only captured in the Main entrance anyway. Where else did it show up? Might have, but from what I remember after you left that street in the beginning of Disney/MGM, you then sent from dream to movie making reality as a working studio. To me, what has been left behind now is just filler. Carsland, at least, is based on a movie.

And yet is a clone.

Q

OK, I'm yet to understand why that is a problem. Heard it a hundred times on these boards. It never has made any logical sense why that is a bad thing. Coca Cola, that you drink today is a clone of the original. That doesn't stop it from being available everywhere and enjoyable to many. I will enjoy that clone when it is in Florida, I'll probably never see the original. I'll take the clone because to me clone means exact replica. I've got nothing right now.

 

[build_it]

As a person who does a little research before I spend $$$ on an expensive vacation, I'm not planning to visit WDW again until the FLE is completed. Why would I visit before it is completed? If I wait a year or so, the entire area will be open and I can enjoy it as a fully completed area. I wouldn't be surprised if any bump in attendance doesn't happen until the entire area is done and open. Especially for those of us who can't afford to go but once or twice a decade.

Besides, there's some nice new things in California that look very exciting, where I can visit some old rides that no longer exist at WDW. Guess I'll have to save my extra $$ for some more expensive airline tickets.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I understand that some copying/cloning is expected, and perhaps even tolerable. But, there comes a point when I think they should try and add some differentiation between the parks and attractions to give them enough of a reason for somebody to go to the other. Will they lose business if they clone it, probably not, or at least not a lot. But, I just think it waters down the brand. Like I said, they have plenty of other material and stories they could build from, that could be just as good, maybe even better.
I'm not a West Coast dweller, but I have been to DL a few times, just not since DCA was built. With the addition of Carsland, I am wanting to try and get out there again, however, if they build that in DHS, my desire and likelihood of going back in the next 10 years is severely diminished.

OK, I understand what you are saying, I'm just not seeing how that is important to the vast majority. You have the possibility of going back to California. I don't see that I do. Having it just in California is not going to, in any way, shape, or form, get me to go there again. I see no possible scenario that will get me there. So if splitting them up only helps those that can get to both parks, then what do you do for the masses that either cannot or will not go to both. To them it is not a clone...it is an original and always will be.

 

[DougK]

This all seems so simple and obvious, why don't the Disney execs get it? People go to theme parks mostly for rides and theming. So they build one of the best rides in a wonderfully themed area out in DCA and it becomes a huge hit and brings in millions more people per year. That sounds good, right? But in Orlando they close down a classic (Snow White) and replace it with a Little Mermaid ride that is OK but not good enough to make a special trip to see. And while I do like that they added the mine train ride it too sounds like something nice but not something you would make a special trip for. And on top of that the mine train is in the middle of the new area so everywhere you go all you still see is construction walls. We are tired of construction walls in Fantasyland. They built the whole park in a year (yes I know it was years ago but still...). And on top of all of that Universal is building so many new and exciting things even I am going there for the first time in April, we are taking two days away from our WDW trip to go there and we are even staying at one of their hotels (Portofino Bay) which by the way is MUCH less expensive than comparable Disney hotels.

So anyway if they want more attendance, build more rides! And fix the broken ones while you're at it!

 

[captainkidd]

FLE was mind boggling to me. Hardly any room to move. 1 new attraction that is a clone of one at Epcot, a "tavern" that's too small to handle any crowds, a new section (Storybook Circus) not even as good as it's predecessor (Toontown), an unfinished main attraction, and a dead end which causes even more of a bottleneck. They really should have waited until Mine Train was done. Reminds me of when they opened Disney-MGM Studios in a rush to beat Universal before it was ready to be open.

 

[captainkidd]

So anyway if they want more attendance, build more rides! And fix the broken ones while you're at it!

A company that cares about quality and increasing attendance would do that. Disney only cares about keeping attendance steady and making more money from restaurants and gift shops.

 

[prberk]

In all honesty, the romanticized notion of Hollywood, was only captured in the Main entrance anyway. Where else did it show up? Might have, but from what I remember after you left that street in the beginning of Disney/MGM, you then sent from dream to movie making reality as a working studio. To me, what has been left behind now is just filler. Carsland, at least, is based on a movie.

Well, actually, I think that Carsland, as executed in DCA, isn't a bad fit for either park (DCA or DHS), because it is a romanticized version of the "cars-land" of California itself: the gold at the rainbow's end of the nation's most romanticized road, Route 66, which of course, originally took you from Chicago to Los Angeles (through Hollywoodland itself, right to Santa Monica and ending at the beach at the Pacific Coast Highway itself!)... at the time that Hollywood was in its prime.

So, it clearly fits the theme of both parks: one based on "the Hollywood that never was, and always will be," and one based on a "California adventure."

 

[bubbles1812]

I think the be WOW factor for the FLE comes with a new E-ticket attraction or two. That will come when SDMC opens. We go in a few weeks, and I am really only super excited to see the Circus area. The rest is just filler until SDMC opens.

I for one would love to see Carsland at WDW, I know I am the only one. But we are close enough to drive to WDW and we would do so for cars, vs flying the whole family to DL.

That's the thing though... SDMT is NOT an E ticket. I'd classify it as a D ticket at best. At the end of the day it's a kiddie coaster probably better than Barnstormer but less than Big Thunder. And I just don't see people scrambling to get down to ride that one ride. I haven't seen the excitement for it the way say there was excitement for Everest. Heck by the time it opens, people might even forget its coming giving how freaking long it is taking to construct.

I go tomorrow and the only thing that truly interests me is seeing the detailed theming... There isn't even one ride that excites me. Im sure ill ride mermaid but again, its not driving me to go to MK. And while I'm sure the restaurant is nice it isn't going to ruin my trip in the slightest if I don't see the inside. Now if I didnt get to see Potter... Then I'd be upset. But I'm blocking out 2 days of my 5 day trip for Universal. That would have never happened a few years ago. But now a trip to Orlando without Universal is an incomplete trip in my mind... I'm not going to make it to AK because Im choosing to go to Uni and had to make a choice on which park had to go due to time constraints. Again something that would never have happened before a few years ago.

It really does show how delusional some of the upper management is. The second I saw the reduced plans, I could have told them it wasnt going to be as big a draw as they expected. The gradual roll out was a stupid idea but that's only part of the reason why it's failing to meet their expectations. NFE ain't no Carsland or Potter (its more immediate competition). And Mermaid certainly isn't RSR or Forbidden Journey. It's honestly laughable they thought the draw would the same as Carsland. It is good to know that Burbank told TDO to let WDI do their job and eat the costs. Such idiots.