Ahsoka D+ Show (Spoiler Thread)

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I'm so over people deciding that any woman character they don't like is a Mary Sue.

The force flows through all living things, in Rebels, Kanan even says that Sabine won't open her mind to it. She had some basic training in Rebels. Clip for Reference: ()

You know how you can lift up a car in a life and death situation? I'd imagine the same principles apply to the force. We also see several moments in the episode where "the force" fails Sabine, for example, the Zombie fight scene, she was better off with a blaster because she couldn't "feel" their next moves.

Rey's story arch is so misconstrued by fan-boys who have such a hatred for the sequel trilogy.

Her gender is irrelevant, i'm sick of people hiding behind calling everyone sexist to cover for bad writing. I would say exactly the same if she was a guy. I have no issues with powerful female characters, quite the opposite. When the reason for their power is well explained and justified, I absolutely love those characters. Ahsoka is a good example. She was already established as force sensitive and went through the proper training to use it even before she was introduced. She starts out pretty bratty and obnoxious, but we see her process of becoming both stronger and more mature throughout Clone Wars and Rebels.

For as bad as the sequels are, I also have zero qualms with the concept of Leia being a force wielder. They establish in ROTJ and ESB that she's force sensitive, and also explain why. She inherited her potential from Anakin, and they even took a moment in Ep9 to show that she was trained by Luke. It didn't come as a surprise or a shoddy retcon. The Legends content also makes her a Jedi, and there are a number of other female Legends characters who can use the force and are properly justified for doing so.

The force is in everything in the SW universe, it is required for life to exist and binds the universe together. That does not mean that anyone can feel or control it in the way that force sensitives do. There are specific genetic requirements to do the sorts of things that Jedi/Sith can do. Most people do not possess the capacity. To put things into perspective, there are hundreds of quadrillions of people within the galactic republic, and only about 10,000 jedi prior to Order 66 and only 2 Sith plus a couple of their rivals. There are exceedingly few people in the Star Wars universe who are force sensitive at any given time (or at least that WAS the case back when it was actually rare and special).

Prior to the prequels making it even more explicit, the original trilogy still established that the ability to truly feel and control the force is a genetic thing. As Luke said in ROTJ (and reiterated by Yoda), "the force is strong in my family". Then the prequels introduced midichlorians as a way to precisely measure one's capacity to use the force beyond just what is required to live. Even Disney's own canon still acknowledges and reinforces the critical role of midichlorians. Mando season 2 refers to it by "M count". Moff Gideon had no capacity to wield the force himself, he created clones of himself and spliced them with Grogu's DNA to create an army of force sensitives. Episode 9 also gets into the genetic requirements, with Palpatine having created clone bodies to transfer his soul into. He struggled to make one that had both the genetic capacity to use the force on his high level while also not degrading. He only succeeded in doing the former, the body however was dying. Snoke was another such failed attempt. One of his other attempts was Rey's father, who lacked force sensitivity himself but still carried the gene and passed it onto Rey.

In that regard, at least Rey was established as a force sensitive right at the start. The big problem with her usage of the force is that she was still just handed her powers on a silver platter without working for them. She did nothing to earn it, just could suddenly beat the crap out of a powerful well trained Skywalker family member with zero training and levitate a butt ton of enormous boulders with ease. But Sabine has the opposite problem. There's a reason why Kanan never tried to train her as an apprentice (he didn't train her to use the force, he just gave her some sword training in an attempt to get her to rally the other Mandalorians against the Empire), or why Ahsoka never mentioned this in Rebels. Sabine was written at the time as having no force sensitivity, and that was perfectly fine for her character. She didn't need to be a force user and it cheapens her character.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
Rey having all that power from the getgo would have gone over better if they had hinted that she was connected to a powerful dark side entity. Then, they could have had those "silver platter" powers quickly turn into dark side powers she used to help her friends. That could have turned very bad very quick, calling for her need to learn to control them. That would have been a stronger arc if they started with her having immense innate abilities. The contrast would have then been about whether Luke et al needed to step in and stop Rey the way Luke felt he needed to stop Kylo. All of this would have better supported Rey being a Palpatine (while Kylo was a Skywalker) and the "diad" would have made more sense. Instead, they had to rush and shoehorn Rey as a Palpatine in episode 9 and put everything there. The arc was there, but it was jammed into one movie rather than spaced out over 3. And that was due to TLJ more than it was due to TROS.

I like the idea of a descendent of the Nightsisters showing up in "Episode X" and having their story hashed out in the "Jedi Origin" movie.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
It is a great live action continuation of Rebels. It's only minor problems were the lightsaber to the gut Sabine suffered and the reunions were not emotional enough. Now that we have Thrawn, may we please have Mara Jade?
 
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erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
I think the ending was great, a little predictable, but great nonetheless. Ranks pretty high in D+ shows for me.
Like I said, it wasn't bad, the ending was just a letdown for me. I enjoyed the show for the most part but would have preferred a more self contained season with breadcrumbs to the next installment. This just felt like there should be a 9th episode.
I don’t really understand what you’re saying here. Baylan & Shin were introduced as antagonists for Ahsoka (the central character of the show). I’m not saying that I don’t agree that some details of their motivations are unclear, but truthfully I don’t care. The two of them are not the “focus” of any new arc for Star Wars. It’ll be Thrawn vs the Mandoverse
The point is I think Balon and Shin, and what they were trying to accomplish, should have been what this first season was about. They were the most intriguing characters anyway. In turn, that could have been the lead in to Thrawn. And then all of season 2 could be the confrontation with Thrawn and really showcasing him. They can still do that in season 2, but now they will need to spend what will most likely be 2 or 3 episodes getting Ashoka and crew back. And with how short the seasons are, that will be a big chunk of the show. It's why I've said they need more time for the format of show they are trying to make. That goes for almost all the D+ shows really. It's all just a matter of opinion. I'm not right, you aren't wrong, or vice versa. It's about what one prefers in a shows format.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
So Sabine gets impaled and survives but not Morgan who is a Nightsister? Will she be revived? I still scratch my head about the point of Morgan if she did indeed die.
 

HoustonHorn

Premium Member
I really loved this show - the casting, the music, the sound, (most) of the visuals, the new creatures - all just felt like Star Wars.

My issue is that this felt like the first half of a traditional TV show that would run in the fall, take a break, and come back for the second half in the spring. There were good emotional beats, but at the end of the day, they "just" moved around some pieces. I wish the big payoff of the season wasn't to reunite Sabine/Ezra/Ahsoka just to split them up again a week later. I thought the character work was good-to-great (depending on the character), but you still need something to happen over the course of a season other than just a repositioning of your assets.

As others have said above, it seems as though the Ezra/Hera/Thrawn will be the focus of Mando4, hopefully adding Zeb. And Ahsoka/Sabine/(recast) Baylan/Shin will be Ahsoka2. Then they call come together for the (purported) Filoni movie. Which is cool, but I really think for a show to be great, you need an arc within an episode and an arc within a season and an arc within a series. I've seen Rebels/Clone Wars/Mando, so I trust that there will be a series arc. Most of the episodes were good. But this season's only real arc was to move Ezra and Thrawn to the main universe and strand Sabine, Ahsoka, Baylan and Shin in the other universe.

Random thoughts:

One of my favorite scenes of the whole season was Ezra building his lightsaber with Huyang. My goodness was Ezra pitch-perfect, and I could absolutely listen to David Tennant doing anything.

My daughter is dressing as Ahsoka for Halloween, and her friend is going as Sabine. That warms my heart.

I'm genuinely excited for where this leads, and I actually have faith in F&F to get us there.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
They're zombies now??!!

They're zombies now.

That plot point was a little weird. The zombified Storm Troopers were still destroyed so there seemed to be minimal benefit. I guess when not fighting Jedi it might make more sense to have a "renewable" army.

I wonder how much they'll borrow from the original Thrawn trilogy. That book series went back to clones as a way for Thrawn to be a legitimate threat to the New Republic. This feels like a similar way to explain how Imperial remnants could come back and be a threat again.

I wish they would have just numbered all of the Mandoverse shows in sequential order. Might be confusing to a latecomer to figure out the order to watch.

Overall this was a fun episode and a fun show that captured the feel of fun Star Wars. It used a lot of familiar tropes but it worked for the Force Awakens.

Didn't really feel like a big cliffhanger, just a story that clearly has more to come. I assume it will be in the form of a season 2 because I don't feel they have laid enough groundwork to do a movie finale at this point.
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I wonder how much they'll borrow from the original Thrawn trilogy. That book series went back to clones as a way for Thrawn to be a legitimate threat to the New Republic. This feels like a similar way to explain how Imperial remnants could come back and be a threat again.
At the end of the day, we know Thrawn fails. I think the story is just continuing in that direction.
Didn't really feel like a big cliffhanger, just a story that clearly has more to come. I assume it will be in the form of a season 2 because I don't feel they have laid enough groundwork to do a movie finale at this point.
Agree with you here, initially I thought a S2 was unlikely. But I'd imagine a S2 of Ahsoka kinda matching up with S4 of Mando. I think Filoni/Faverau have confirmed Mando S4 has been written, nothing on S2 of Ahsoka. The other option would be to use Mando S4 to find Ahsoka/Sabine. I guess we'll find out soon(ish).
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Her gender is irrelevant, i'm sick of people hiding behind calling everyone sexist to cover for bad writing. I would say exactly the same if she was a guy. I have no issues with powerful female characters, quite the opposite. When the reason for their power is well explained and justified, I absolutely love those characters. Ahsoka is a good example. She was already established as force sensitive and went through the proper training to use it even before she was introduced. She starts out pretty bratty and obnoxious, but we see her process of becoming both stronger and more mature throughout Clone Wars and Rebels.
I wasn't accusing you of being sexist, I just disagree that it's bad writing. Thats my opinion. I don't think Sabine was overtly powerful that it needed some long drawn out explanation.
The force is in everything in the SW universe, it is required for life to exist and binds the universe together. That does not mean that anyone can feel or control it in the way that force sensitives do. There are specific genetic requirements to do the sorts of things that Jedi/Sith can do. Most people do not possess the capacity. To put things into perspective, there are hundreds of quadrillions of people within the galactic republic, and only about 10,000 jedi prior to Order 66 and only 2 Sith plus a couple of their rivals. There are exceedingly few people in the Star Wars universe who are force sensitive at any given time (or at least that WAS the case back when it was actually rare and special).
I can understand your perspective here, but if we're really going to get into the "rare and special", there are FAR few "force sensitive" people in the franchise post the prequels (as we know Order 66), and if we really wanna get into it, Luke is literally the only "Jedi" in the OT, and yes we know Leia was force sensitive, Darth & Palpatine. In the sequels, it's just Rey, Luke, Snoke (Which is basically just Palpatine), and yes Palpatine (because somehow he returned). I'd say it's still just as "rare".
In that regard, at least Rey was established as a force sensitive right at the start. The big problem with her usage of the force is that she was still just handed her powers on a silver platter without working for them. She did nothing to earn it, just could suddenly beat the crap out of a powerful well trained Skywalker family member with zero training and levitate a butt ton of enormous boulders with ease.
I personally don't think she ever really "beat" Kylo, but thats a whole other discussion.
But Sabine has the opposite problem. There's a reason why Kanan never tried to train her as an apprentice (he didn't train her to use the force, he just gave her some sword training in an attempt to get her to rally the other Mandalorians against the Empire), or why Ahsoka never mentioned this in Rebels. Sabine was written at the time as having no force sensitivity, and that was perfectly fine for her character. She didn't need to be a force user and it cheapens her character.
I think it's pretty clear that Sabine is not force sensitive in the way that a "Jedi" is, and I don't think you have to be. To circle back to the midichlorian's, I'd assume that everyone in the Star Wars franchise has some varying degree of them. Mandalorian's are historically not "Jedi's", and I think that is largely in part of the "The Way", they are not raised to be creatures of peace and to connect with the world around them. Is Sabine on the level of Luke or Obi-Wan, etc? No. But I don't personally think anything she did in the series was really all that impressive. The force push of Ezra on to the ship was probably the most impressive, but we don't really know how much effort Ezra put in himself, and granted he almost did not make it. It also took Ahsoka joining in with Ezra & Sabine to open those doors, so I don't think Sabine is so in-tune with the force. But I don't think she was written with no force sensitivity, I just think it's a door that Filoni left open to explore, and this is now the route he went down.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I enjoyed the show overall though didn’t feel able to fully connect with it as someone who hasn’t seen the animated series (my partner had to provide a lot of background information).

My favourite characters were Thrawn and, above all, the three witches. Yes, I have a thing for villains. :)
 

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
So Sabine gets impaled and survives but not Morgan who is a Nightsister? Will she be revived? I still scratch my head about the point of Morgan if she did indeed die.
I think because the former was stabbed, and the latter defenestrated by both a lightsaber and the green mist sword
 

ppete1975

Well-Known Member
I really wonder if the last two episodes had more baylen originally, but due to the death of the actor they removed some scenes to give them time to figure out what to do (recast, deep fake, possession altering his face, death as a sacrifice). It seems like all the other episodes were building baylen and shin to be so much more than just a cliff note at the end. That quick scene seemed more apt for a film trailer than a story line.

Watching it I just had a feeling that there was a reedit before release, something star wars and marvel have been known to do.

Since they had to show something they have a quick glimpse with fan service to the people that watched rebels and clone wars.

I also wonder for the people that didnt watch the clone wars or rebels, how much of this series didnt make sense.
 

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