Aesthetic Analysis of Themed Design

[trendicoff]

I have to disagree here. The Yeti is protecting the mountain from man. I think the message is that nature must be protected from man destroying it. Again, not necessarily my belief, just a thought.

While I value your insight and interpretation on EE I have to politely disagree. While there are messages at DAK about the dangers of man and nature (poaching, deforestation, etc.), the greater message and theme is that of exploration and man working to live harmoniously with nature.

Looking at the gross theming of the park you can see from the twisting trails of the Oasis to the prints preserved in the pavement. All of it provides the guest with subtle hints of the message "there is more here than what I can plainly see in front of me." All of it points towards human curiosity, but also warns us to be aware of how we affect those around us.

EE builds on this theme of discovery and exploration. The queue is wonderfully filled with all sorts of "proof" to the existence of the yeti, much of it real artifacts from the last several hundred years. Here the guest is invited to act on their human curiosity and explore to see if he can gain a greater understanding of the world around him. The guests journeys to the Himalayas and successfully answers his curiosity with the discovery of the yeti, but that discovery comes at a price, the yeti nearly kills the explorer. In summary, the ride tells us, we must keep pushing to understand the world around us and explore new things every day, but be aware, we are not the only power in this world and we must be careful not to intrude on others whether it be deforesting the amazon or simply arriving uninvited into the yeti's home.

whew! of course most of that is my own observation (hopefully in line with Joe Rhode's vision)

 

[SirGoofy]

There's an article clipping that basically backs up what yankspy is saying about the yeti.

He is protecting the mountain pass from man.

 

[trendicoff]

Yes, the storyline is that the yeti is protecting the mountain from man, that's why he swipes at you and the name of the attraction "Expedition Everest: Legend of the Forbidden Mountain", my point was that the message is not just necessarily "man is bad"

 

[SirGoofy]

Yes, the storyline is that the yeti is protecting the mountain from man, that's why he swipes at you and the name of the attraction "Expedition Everest: Legend of the Forbidden Mountain", my point was that the message is not just necessarily "man is bad"

My bad. I haven't been reading this entire thread because it makes my head hurt.:lol:

 

[trendicoff]

lol,I hear ya! :ROFLOL:

 

[wishesjake]

Maybe my post wasn't very interesting, but what did everyone/anyone think about the comparisons between AK and AL? Is it a valid observation or pointless drivel?

 

[Mstr Gra-c]

I think the reason I dislike AK (or rather not enjoy it as much as the others, because lets face it if I'm at Disney World...I'm pretty darn happy no matter what) is that tone that some have touched upon.

The other parks focus on the grandeur that is man. Adventure, Discovery, Innovation...Walt created an optimistic, loving tone in his parks based on the acheivements and the power that eminated from the inherent good in man.

AK takes the opposite tone...or at least that is what I feel when there. Man is the destroyer, man is the ruiner of beauty. And only through a complete overhaul to the ways of man can man fail (for lack of a better word) from destroying that which it is focused on...the beauty of nature.

 

[EpcotServo]

Dinoland is the one area that does not seem to fit that theme too well. Perhaps it is there as a reminder that these creatures were the most successful species the world has ever known. (In terms of longevity). However, they are no longer with us. If we are not careful, we may suffer their fate. I am not necessarily stating my opinion, just throwing out some food for thought.

^Want to talk about this first, since this is often missed out and you aren't too far off on how it connects to Animal Kingdom. Beyond exploring Dinosaurs as part of the Animal Kingdom, Dinoland is the best land representing a common theme in Nature: Chaos Vs. Order. Those two are different worlds, but collide to great effect. Now in the Dinosaur world, this was magnified times a million. On one hand, there was great order and brilliant beauty and harmony in the prehistoric world. But Chaos eventually reigned as the environment slid out of balance, and this Chaos eventually doomed them all.

Fast forward some 65 Million years later, and now man rules. In fact, this very land is populated with equally colorful creatures who live to dig up and think about their long dead reptilian counterparts. And just as in prehistory, once again Chaos is in daily battle with order. On one side you have the academic and scientific minds of the Dino Institute and the Professors, who's view of Dinosaurs ARE one of beauty and order, and themselves are incidentally representing. Then on the other side, is the Chaotic and wild nature of the Grad Students and Enterprising Citizens of Diggs County. They are truly chaotic, as their evidence of their wild summer exploits and their love for Dinosaurs are represented everywhere (They live by the code is that there is nothing that can't be made better by tacking -osaurus to the end.)

So right here in Dinoland, you might not be in pre-history, but from the Chaotic roadside tourist traps and plastic dinosaurs thrown everywhere from restless young paleontologists, to the calm green and stone order of an Institute trying to live with the primitive crazy Dino-obsessed town around them, you without knowing it, are walking into a living metaphor for the world of Dinosaurs.

And like at all the Animal Kingdom lands, one attraction pushes the metaphor into broad daylight, by literally taking you into the ultimate scene of Chaos Vs. Order, when the Dinosaur world happens to meet it's end.

Maybe this Chaos Vs. Order battle is dooming us too, Maybe if we keep the enviroment in check, we too won't have to let Chaos Vs. Order consume our world....But like everywhere else in Animal Kingdom, what you take away from this is something personal, and may be different.

:wave:

Now as for the rest of this discussion, the idea of Animal Kingdom isn't that polarized as some have suggested. Animal Kingdom is NOT about Man Evil: Nature Good. The Theme of Animal Kingdom is about Man's LOVE for Animals. From Childhood stories, Adolescent Adventure, and Mature respect. It's a Love Story, and that story does take us to dark places, where the line is blurred, but the effect is clear. And hopefully, at the end of the day, you've learned that, well, the message from Expedition Everest couldn't say it better...

"Those who proceed with Respect and Reverence for the Sanctity of the natural environment and it's creatures should have no fear. To all others; a Warning. You risk the wrath of the Yeti."
-Prof. Pema Dorje


And as for the Realism, the reason why the setting is so realistic, isn't to make it scary (I for one find the worn and aged old buildings the most beautiful in Disney World.) The reason is because the settings have to reflect the stories.

And ALL of the stories in Animal Kingdom, while they are created, they do come from a very real place. Such as with the Yeti. They didn't make up the legend, it's very real and they built a fantastic story around it. None of the stories are just "Oh, we'll make up something about a Haunted Monkey." To make these fantastic stories fit Animal Kingdom, they have to come from something real.

The buildings are the same, they are special and created from a place in the Imagination, but they come from some place REAL. They FEEL REAL. But they don't just feel real, they feel Alien to us. When you stand in Harmabe or Serka Zong, you're believe the fiction of the town BECAUSE it feels real.

Not a scary real place, but a fictional real place half the world away. And it works flawlessly. It's drastically different from the other parks, but that's why I love it. It breaks the mold, while making the mold stronger. And it DEFINITELY isn't about how Man is evil. Animal Kingdom is, like I said, a park ABOUT MAN and our love for Animals.

Any critic of this must read "The Making of Disney's Animal Kingdom". It's a fantastic book, everyone here must have it.

 

[yankspy]

Yes, the storyline is that the yeti is protecting the mountain from man, that's why he swipes at you and the name of the attraction "Expedition Everest: Legend of the Forbidden Mountain", my point was that the message is not just necessarily "man is bad"

I agree. Perhaps I was a little harsh in using that term. I said in an earlier post that the message of the park as a whole was primarily living with nature.

 

[yankspy]

^Want to talk about this first, since this is often missed out and you aren't too far off on how it connects to Animal Kingdom. Beyond exploring Dinosaurs as part of the Animal Kingdom, Dinoland is the best land representing a common theme in Nature: Chaos Vs. Order. Those two are different worlds, but collide to great effect. Now in the Dinosaur world, this was magnified times a million. On one hand, there was great order and brilliant beauty and harmony in the prehistoric world. But Chaos eventually reigned as the environment slid out of balance, and this Chaos eventually doomed them all.

Fast forward some 65 Million years later, and now man rules. In fact, this very land is populated with equally colorful creatures who live to dig up and think about their long dead reptilian counterparts. And just as in prehistory, once again Chaos is in daily battle with order. On one side you have the academic and scientific minds of the Dino Institute and the Professors, who's view of Dinosaurs ARE one of beauty and order, and themselves are incidentally representing. Then on the other side, is the Chaotic and wild nature of the Grad Students and Enterprising Citizens of Diggs County. They are truly chaotic, as their evidence of their wild summer exploits and their love for Dinosaurs are represented everywhere (They live by the code is that there is nothing that can't be made better by tacking -osaurus to the end.)

So right here in Dinoland, you might not be in pre-history, but from the Chaotic roadside tourist traps and plastic dinosaurs thrown everywhere from restless young paleontologists, to the calm green and stone order of an Institute trying to live with the primitive crazy Dino-obsessed town around them, you without knowing it, are walking into a living metaphor for the world of Dinosaurs.

And like at all the Animal Kingdom lands, one attraction pushes the metaphor into broad daylight, by literally taking you into the ultimate scene of Chaos Vs. Order, when the Dinosaur world happens to meet it's end.

Maybe this Chaos Vs. Order battle is dooming us too, Maybe if we keep the enviroment in check, we too won't have to let Chaos Vs. Order consume our world....But like everywhere else in Animal Kingdom, what you take away from this is something personal, and may be different.

:wave:

Now as for the rest of this discussion, the idea of Animal Kingdom isn't that polarized as some have suggested. Animal Kingdom is NOT about Man Evil: Nature Good. The Theme of Animal Kingdom is about Man's LOVE for Animals. From Childhood stories, Adolescent Adventure, and Mature respect. It's a Love Story, and that story does take us to dark places, where the line is blurred, but the effect is clear. And hopefully, at the end of the day, you've learned that, well, the message from Expedition Everest couldn't say it better...

"Those who proceed with Respect and Reverence for the Sanctity of the natural environment and it's creatures should have no fear. To all others; a Warning. You risk the wrath of the Yeti."
-Prof. Pema Dorje


And as for the Realism, the reason why the setting is so realistic, isn't to make it scary (I for one find the worn and aged old buildings the most beautiful in Disney World.) The reason is because the settings have to reflect the stories.

And ALL of the stories in Animal Kingdom, while they are created, they do come from a very real place. Such as with the Yeti. They didn't make up the legend, it's very real and they built a fantastic story around it. None of the stories are just "Oh, we'll make up something about a Haunted Monkey." To make these fantastic stories fit Animal Kingdom, they have to come from something real.

The buildings are the same, they are special and created from a place in the Imagination, but they come from some place REAL. They FEEL REAL. But they don't just feel real, they feel Alien to us. When you stand in Harmabe or Serka Zong, you're believe the fiction of the town BECAUSE it feels real.

Not a scary real place, but a fictional real place half the world away. And it works flawlessly. It's drastically different from the other parks, but that's why I love it. It breaks the mold, while making the mold stronger.

Perhaps I should have chosen my words a little more carefully. I did not mean to sound that way. I guess I meant to say that there are those subtle messages to man throughout the park. It is kind of odd to look at things from the vantage of man vs. nature since we are just as much a part of nature as anything else.

As far as the realism, I have never thought about it too much until now. I have even more respect for the design of the place now. However, With all of its realism and messages, it still feels like a theme park to me. They managed to pull that off somehow. Well done.

 

[wishesjake]

^Want to talk about this first, since this is often missed out and you aren't too far off on how it connects to Animal Kingdom. Beyond exploring Dinosaurs as part of the Animal Kingdom, Dinoland is the best land representing a common theme in Nature: Chaos Vs. Order. Those two are different worlds, but collide to great effect. Now in the Dinosaur world, this was magnified times a million. On one hand, there was great order and brilliant beauty and harmony in the prehistoric world. But Chaos eventually reigned as the environment slid out of balance, and this Chaos eventually doomed them all.

Fast forward some 65 Million years later, and now man rules. In fact, this very land is populated with equally colorful creatures who live to dig up and think about their long dead reptilian counterparts. And just as in prehistory, once again Chaos is in daily battle with order. On one side you have the academic and scientific minds of the Dino Institute and the Professors, who's view of Dinosaurs ARE one of beauty and order, and themselves are incidentally representing. Then on the other side, is the Chaotic and wild nature of the Grad Students and Enterprising Citizens of Diggs County. They are truly chaotic, as their evidence of their wild summer exploits and their love for Dinosaurs are represented everywhere (They live by the code is that there is nothing that can't be made better by tacking -osaurus to the end.)

So right here in Dinoland, you might not be in pre-history, but from the Chaotic roadside tourist traps and plastic dinosaurs thrown everywhere from restless young paleontologists, to the calm green and stone order of an Institute trying to live with the primitive crazy Dino-obsessed town around them, you without knowing it, are walking into a living metaphor for the world of Dinosaurs.

And like at all the Animal Kingdom lands, one attraction pushes the metaphor into broad daylight, by literally taking you into the ultimate scene of Chaos Vs. Order, when the Dinosaur world happens to meet it's end.

Maybe this Chaos Vs. Order battle is dooming us too, Maybe if we keep the enviroment in check, we too won't have to let Chaos Vs. Order consume our world....But like everywhere else in Animal Kingdom, what you take away from this is something personal, and may be different.

:wave:

Now as for the rest of this discussion, the idea of Animal Kingdom isn't that polarized as some have suggested. Animal Kingdom is NOT about Man Evil: Nature Good. The Theme of Animal Kingdom is about Man's LOVE for Animals. From Childhood stories, Adolescent Adventure, and Mature respect. It's a Love Story, and that story does take us to dark places, where the line is blurred, but the effect is clear. And hopefully, at the end of the day, you've learned that, well, the message from Expedition Everest couldn't say it better...

"Those who proceed with Respect and Reverence for the Sanctity of the natural environment and it's creatures should have no fear. To all others; a Warning. You risk the wrath of the Yeti."
-Prof. Pema Dorje


And as for the Realism, the reason why the setting is so realistic, isn't to make it scary (I for one find the worn and aged old buildings the most beautiful in Disney World.) The reason is because the settings have to reflect the stories.

And ALL of the stories in Animal Kingdom, while they are created, they do come from a very real place. Such as with the Yeti. They didn't make up the legend, it's very real and they built a fantastic story around it. None of the stories are just "Oh, we'll make up something about a Haunted Monkey." To make these fantastic stories fit Animal Kingdom, they have to come from something real.

The buildings are the same, they are special and created from a place in the Imagination, but they come from some place REAL. They FEEL REAL. But they don't just feel real, they feel Alien to us. When you stand in Harmabe or Serka Zong, you're believe the fiction of the town BECAUSE it feels real.

Not a scary real place, but a fictional real place half the world away. And it works flawlessly. It's drastically different from the other parks, but that's why I love it. It breaks the mold, while making the mold stronger. And it DEFINITELY isn't about how Man is evil. Animal Kingdom is, like I said, a park ABOUT MAN and our love for Animals.

Any critic of this must read "The Making of Disney's Animal Kingdom". It's a fantastic book, everyone here must have it.

Great post. This is a great statement about AK as a whole. Joe Rhode could not have said it better himself. I think this is eye opening because too often we view AK as criticizing us and our relationship with animals. However, it is, in it's own way, as idealistic as Main Street because the villagers in Africa, Asia, Discovery Island, and Dinoland live happily amongst the animals. They have "learned the lesson" that AK promotes and are better off because of it. Thus, part of the message of the park could be, "Look how happy these people are. They can teach you lessons." It's a message that all of WDW promotes, but it is certainly stronger in certain parts of the World like AK and WS.

EpcotServo, you seem to be an AK expert, but do you have any analysis about Adventureland?

 

[EpcotServo]

Great post. This is a great statement about AK as a whole. Joe Rhode could not have said it better himself. I think this is eye opening because too often we view AK as criticizing us and our relationship with animals. However, it is, in it's own way, as idealistic as Main Street because the villagers in Africa, Asia, Discovery Island, and Dinoland live happily amongst the animals. They have "learned the lesson" that AK promotes and are better off because of it. Thus, part of the message of the park could be, "Look how happy these people are. They can teach you lessons." It's a message that all of WDW promotes, but it is certainly stronger in certain parts of the World like AK and WS.
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=3762844
EpcotServo, you seem to be an AK expert, but do you have any analysis about Adventureland?

Magic Kingdom I'm less adept at talking at length about, because I think Disneyland (And by transitive property Magic Kingdom) aren't supposed to be too over-analyzed. Because Disneyland is Walt's kingdom, a place that's supposed to be care and worry free, and I think Adventureland represents that, a far-off place where danger is around every corner, but you'll always make it back with stories to tell.

For me, Disneyland is just that, Disneyland. No need to get too physiological, it's just Walt's park.
:lol:

I do think Indiana Jones Adventure is a good example of bringing Adventureland to the modern age. By making a story that involves choices, The Temple of the Forbidden Eye is a scary and dangerous place, but because in our mythos we know this is an "Indiana Jones Adventure" we know, just like in Disney's day, that we'll narrowly escape and find ourselves back in Walt Disney's Disneyland, having gone through an amazing experience.

 

[njDizFan]

I too am a huge DAK fanboy, for me it represents the best in Disney theming as well as the only park with a basis in reality. MSUSA like it or not is based on American's fascination of bygone eras. When everything was civil and orderly. Our longing for a sense of community and harmony. The past is sometimes closer than the near future. Even though none of us have a personal account of the turn of the century it holds in our hearts a vision of reality. The golden era of Americana. The best of our collective ideal for American culture.

This slightly askew perspective of our past has a basis, (albiet warped) sense of reality. Which is why Future World and Tomorrowland are flawed. Unless these pavillions or attractions get updated almost annually, the vision of the future always ends up dated. It appears like a vision of the future from the past. With the age of technology came the rapid succession of ideas that is almost impossible to keep up with. I'm sure in the late 70's when EC was being designed they could not possibly have seen the incredible speed at which the world would evolve. Innoventions does change exhibits to incorporate new ideas but is sadly, usually behind the cutting edge. Even Eddie Sotto's spectaular ideas on a visionary resort showcasing modern/future technologys would have to be updated in less than 10 years. The future cannot be told by using concrete. It is a "figment of our immagination". The one pavillion that can never be wrong.

DHS is a theme park based on films, which be definition is not reality.

Which bring us back to DAK. We are part of nature and if man fails to live with nature will go as the way of the dinosaur. I love the African and Asian villages as seen from a modern perspective. Crumbling villages and all. This is our world today in all its beauty and decay. We share a park/world with the rest of the species of Earth. Which is where Adventureland veers off in it's own tangent. AL is a contived, vision of colonial exploration.. Not saying I don't love AL, I think it's great, it is more like being inside a story than reality.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I remember a thread a while back that pointed out the dedication plaque in Magic Kingdom actually reads as a dedication of Walt Disney World. The park and the larger concept of a place to honor Walt Disney and his legacy were synonymous.

But as more parks were opened, it was determined that the park had to be made distinct from Walt Disney World, so it was officially named the Magic Kingdom. I think the name is unfortunate. While you can say that every theme in the park ties into a form of magic, that more nuanced understanding has been demolished by the idea that literal, fairy tale and pixie dust-style magic is the entirety of the park's definition.

This is one reason I'm glad that Disneyland has kept its original name and not been re-named something like "Magic Kingdom at Disneyland" even as the Disneyland name has also come to be applied to the larger resort it inhabits. The concepts behind the park are too big for a name like "Magic Kingdom."

The Magic Kingdom was always officially known as the Magic Kingdom. The name goes all the way back to 1955. "Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom, Disneyland, USA"

This is why the Arabian/Aladdin theme doesn't work because Colonialism never really took root in most Arab countries

I think you are over analyzing a simple case of conflicting aesthetics. The Arabian theme does not work at the Magic Kingdom, but it does work at Disneyland Paris.

At the Magic Kingdom the Magic Carpets of Aladdin are, within complete eyesight surrounded by the Swiss Family Treehouse, The Enchanted Tiki Room, Sunshine Tree Terrance and, just a bit to the side, The World Famous Jungle Cruise. What you have is a space completely contradicted by its defining boundaries.

Adventureland at Disneyland Paris is more fragmented than the version found at the Magic Kingdom. Entering from the hub, guests pass into the Bazar, a clearly Arabian place, set almost as an oasis village. There are small domes that complete the visual skyline as Le Château de la Belle au Bois Dormant is just to the viewer's right.

Enter from Fantasyland and you see Captain Hook's Jolly Roger moored at Skull Rock at Adventure Isle. Just to the north of this vantage point is Pirates of the Caribbean. You literally have the fantasy pirate adventure of Peter Pan's Flight (in Fantasyland) right next to the more realistic and menacing Pirates of the Caribbean (in Adventureland). All the while guests traveling between the two pass by the realistic interpretation of a fantasy ship and geologic feature.

It is only off to the wets that we find the old Explorer's Club (now Colonel Hathi's) and Dr. Jones. What you then have is three slightly more distinct areas that all surround Adventure Isle. We have the outposts of man surrounding the most untamed, except by that crafty Swiss family, jungle isle. In the end I think this better plays up to the Adventureland idea of man entering into the unknown wilds and exotic places of the world. The Bazar is one of those places from which we step off onto our adventure, pun intended, and its proper establishment sets up the believability of the locale.

Now as for the rest of this discussion, the idea of Animal Kingdom isn't that polarized as some have suggested. Animal Kingdom is NOT about Man Evil: Nature Good. The Theme of Animal Kingdom is about Man's LOVE for Animals.

Completely and totally agree.

Magic Kingdom I'm less adept at talking at length about, because I think Disneyland (And by transitive property Magic Kingdom) aren't supposed to be too over-analyzed.

I think John Hench would disagree. Walt might agree, but one does not typically analyze his own actions so deeply.

 

[wishesjake]

OK, so let's put some sort of thesis together about Animal Kingdom. Again, this is just all my opinion so let me know where I'm wrong. I think we can approach this from a film criticism standpoint because, after all, the original imagineers were filmmakers.

The Oasis -
The function of the area is to put the guest in a position subservient to nature. After all, we live in a society where we encounter more manmade environments than natural ones. Therefore the Oasis lets us know that we are going to spend a day in a place where nature holds a higher place than the outside world. However, although nature rules the roost in the oasis, we are never afraid of it. There is a balance to let the guest know that although nature is in control, we are still safe and not experiencing any of the chaos that nature is known for. So we come to appreciate nature and understand that an environment that is more natural than manmade can be pleasurable.

Thoughts on this?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

The first difference that jumps out at me is that AL is a more playful land. Everything from talking birds to cruises through the jungle with corny jokes. Heck, they even made pirates funny. If you think about it, these were not nice people. However, we are not threatened by them at all.

AK has a more serious tone. There is a message. It is one of conservation and living in harmony with nature. It is subtle, as it should be. (No one wants to be lectured at a theme park). Rides like Kali have that scene where we are reminded about the dangers of deforestation. Kilimanjaro warns us about the dangers of poaching.

Dinoland is the one area that does not seem to fit that theme too well. Perhaps it is there as a reminder that these creatures were the most successful species the world has ever known. (In terms of longevity). However, they are no longer with us. If we are not careful, we may suffer their fate. I am not necessarily stating my opinion, just throwing out some food for thought.

In the long run, I believe AK is a celebration of life, whether it be human or animal.

AL seems to be a place where you can have a laugh at exotic locales.

I agree in full, partially because it's two different themes entirely.


AdvL is ADVENTURE...They just decided to make the setting for it one of the tropics, and well, one that featured a lot of Animals.:lol: Any land in the MK could be Adventureland, technically.:lol:

DAK, as you said is a celebration of life- ALL life.

 

[wishesjake]

Would anyone mind moving on to Frontierland/Liberty Square?

This meta-land has to be the ultimate statement about America in any Disney park. Although Main Street has major American themes and motifs, this area clearly tells the history of the United States. On the surface it is definitely a journey through American history, but the question must be asked: Why is it important for us to take that journey? What can we learn from it? And, how does the land affect the guest?

Liberty Square is separate from Frontierland because the break in the lands denotes the break from the British empire. America's history does not begin when we gain our independance. Therefore, Liberty Square is a land at the dawn of the revolution, whereas Frontierland is a land populated with people who have won their independance and are just figuring out what to do with it.

The Haunted Mansion represents the old manors that haunt the shores of the Hudson. The concept of a haunted house is a vital part of American culture. Metaphorically, it may represent the fears of the Americans during the colonial age: "What if we don't win the war?"

It is somewhat ironic that the culmination of Frontierland and the idea of manifest destiny ends in financial failure (the worthless mines of Big Thunder Mountain). BTMRR signals the end of an era, the dying of the Old West. Most of the residents have moved away from BTMRR to reside on Main Street U.S.A. Is the message that Main Street is somehow better than Frontierland? That the American Ideal has been reached in the year 1900?

Or am I just a lunatic?

Does any of that make sense?

 

[WDWSwashbuckler]

Main Street! Main Street! Meet me tonight on Main Street!

Liberty and Freedom, but Law and Order too. Quintessentially American. Like Walt himself, the quintessential American. Makes sense.

I think the struggle, or rather dichotomy, between liberty and freedom, and law and order, is a topic rife for discussion (while avoiding modern politics). In the very first years of this republic, I think the balance was shifted much more towards liberty and freedom than it was towards law and order; that goes without saying due to the reasons for the revolution; having been subjected to one extreme of arbitrary law and violent order, the pendulum naturally swung towards a more laissez-faire promotion of liberty and freedom as the ultimate moral code of the land. In the years since, the pendulum has swung back towards the center, yet we would do well to keep it aligned more often with the interests of freedom and liberty than with those that would have the state becoming the final arbiter of not only law and order, but also compulsion beyond the original intent of the framers.

Where does Disney come into play? Or Main Street? Well, Main Street could, perhaps should, be seen as a beacon beckoning for a return to the more serene days of the past. As Buckminster Fuller, another of Walt's muses, once said, "Dare to be naive." Main Street is Naive Street. What do we sacrifice when we turn left in our automobiles off Naive Street onto Cynical Street, leaving the Main Street of America's past behind?

Very thoughtful; thanks for this. I would agree with your statement regarding the zealous promotion of the concept of Liberty in the formative years of the Republic, but we must always bear in mind that there will always be a John Adams out there, trying to mess things up with a philosophy of pure Law being the origin of Liberty. Way to sour the milk. :animwink:

I am also persuaded to think that Main Street is a portal to unadulterated escapism, and that's okay. I think we all want our own Mayberry, but are always locked in conflict with the 'real world', which is can be filled with arrogant megalomaniacs. The person who is generally not vitriolic in his/her approach to others finds some sort of comfort in an place whose modus operandi is more benevolent. I think the true aesthetic appeal of Main Street is that it can be simple without being banal.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Would anyone mind moving on to Frontierland/Liberty Square?

This meta-land has to be the ultimate statement about America in any Disney park. Although Main Street has major American themes and motifs, this area clearly tells the history of the United States. On the surface it is definitely a journey through American history, but the question must be asked: Why is it important for us to take that journey? What can we learn from it? And, how does the land affect the guest?

Liberty Square is separate from Frontierland because the break in the lands denotes the break from the British empire. America's history does not begin when we gain our independance. Therefore, Liberty Square is a land at the dawn of the revolution, whereas Frontierland is a land populated with people who have won their independance and are just figuring out what to do with it.

The Haunted Mansion represents the old manors that haunt the shores of the Hudson. The concept of a haunted house is a vital part of American culture. Metaphorically, it may represent the fears of the Americans during the colonial age: "What if we don't win the war?"

It is somewhat ironic that the culmination of Frontierland and the idea of manifest destiny ends in financial failure (the worthless mines of Big Thunder Mountain). BTMRR signals the end of an era, the dying of the Old West. Most of the residents have moved away from BTMRR to reside on Main Street U.S.A. Is the message that Main Street is somehow better than Frontierland? That the American Ideal has been reached in the year 1900?

Or am I just a lunatic?

Does any of that make sense?

I agree with your Liberty Square/American History statements.:wave: That part is very much true...Walt was a student of American History and that is exactly what it depicts...

AND, in my own view, might be the "original" MSUSA. It too shows the optimism, and freedom that created something wonderful.

Don't agree on HM. That's too much of a jump for me.:lol: It's just there, because it fits the theming. As we've seen, a HM can go in ANY land, just as the foreign parks have done.

As Servo said...Some things can be overanalyzed...some, can't. This is one of them.:lol:

 

[Wilt Dasney]

It is somewhat ironic that the culmination of Frontierland and the idea of manifest destiny ends in financial failure (the worthless mines of Big Thunder Mountain). BTMRR signals the end of an era, the dying of the Old West. Most of the residents have moved away from BTMRR to reside on Main Street U.S.A. Is the message that Main Street is somehow better than Frontierland? That the American Ideal has been reached in the year 1900?

This is an interesting layer of interpretation, but I'm not sure I buy it as revealing actual intent of the park designers, for a few reasons.

1.) The plot for BTMRR was empty for the first few years of the park's existence, and was originally slated for the Western River Expedition, which thematically would have been quite different from Big Thunder.

2.) The original Big Thunder does not sit at the end of Disneyland's Frontierland. It's more at the heart. I realize this is a Magic Kingdom discussion, but if we're to believe there are deep layers of intent in the design of Magic Kingdom, I think the case is made stronger if we can find parallels in the park that inspired most of what's there.

3.) Even if this was an original intent at the time of BTMRR's construction, I think the "story" has been demolished by the addition of Splash Mountain. I have read statements from Imagineers that the original idea of walking from Liberty Square to Frontierland was supposed to parallel going west across the United States and simultaneously forward in time (from the revolutionary northeast to the expansion-era southwest), but Splash Mountain pretty much throws a huge roadblock into the idea, by taking you on a massive detour to the antebellum South.