Adventureland Smoking Section Removed

[englanddg]

You got me on the toxicity of nicotine. Mea culpa. I made an assumption and should have researched more. I was trying to transition to my point about vaping. I should have said I don't object to vaping or other forms of nicotine ingestion and left it at that. But now that we know nicotine is toxic I would say that I need to rethink my stance on vaping in public. Mind you, this only concerns Disney or other places where children are present. I have no views as to smoking or vaping in bars. I can choose to frequent a bar or stay home. My 7 year shouldn't have to choose to go to Disney or not for fear of secondhand smoke.

However, the rest of your response is, well, strange. You wrote something about my self identity. Do you know me well enough to make any kind of assertion about how I self identify? Or are you making assumptions about me based upon my responses in this thread? Maybe you're a little too emotional about the loss of your smoking "rights" to post in a rational way on this topic? All I did was point out that smoking sections are going away at Disney and if the current trend is any indication the complete loss of them is very likely coming sooner rather than later.

As far as your dismissal of the CDC as a political organization that cannot be trusted I just have to say that I completely disagree with you. The CDC is an authority on public health in this country and I'll simply rely on their data and advice over a study by the University of California that from the responses to the study contained in your link call into question the methodology and veracity of the study's conclusions. But if you don't like the CDC how about the NIH National Cancer Institute?:

I don't need to make assumptions. You made several posts that were blatantly false, and/or twisted to support your own conclusions.

You have an agenda, a firm displeasure and distaste for smoking. It's clear. And, there's nothing wrong with that. It just doesn't grant you any moral authority over others. Period.

The claims of secondhand smoke are littered with a lot of implied causation. Your own quote indicates "further research is needed."

Furthermore, you must have missed my first response to you where I said "I am glad they closed this spot because it was in the path of a major walkway". And where I said that Disney is wholly within their rights to completely ban it from property. I believe both things, I just think it's an operational slight. There's no indignation from me about them closing this. I just don't think it's some major "win" either. It was in a bad place, but that doesn't mean that I think removing them completely solves anything at all.

People flaunt rules all the time. Weed is illegal, but I've been walking near the castle and smelled it. That doesn't mean I run around like a wimp screaming about how my kid is going to have the munchies for the next 3 hours and is now a druggie for life.

People aren't supposed to vape outside of smoking areas (or smoke outside of them), but I see them do it.

They aren't supposed to litter, but they do it anyway.

What makes me frustrated and irritable about the topic is the sheer lunacy some people take it to. We live in a world with other people. Other people do things you may not like, may not approve of. It is as much your responsibility to avoid these things as it is your right to "have your voice heard", but, frankly, on many things, you should just avoid them if it bothers you that much (again a reason why plopping smoking areas smack dab in the middle of busy walkways is a bad idea, because in those cases, I think you'd have every RIGHT to complain to Disney about the placement, as it's nearly impossible to avoid, as the one in Adventureland was).

Lets back off for a moment and think back to why Walt wanted a trashcan every 40 feet or so. It's because by giving someone a chance to dispose of trash properly, the vast majority of people will. The same goes for smokers. If you give them places to smoke, they will tend to respect the fact that others don't appreciate them smoking around them.

If you do not, they'll tend to find ways to flaunt it, up to completely ignoring rules.

A previous post suggested indoor smoking areas, and I'm actually ok with this as well (it works in airports). Highly filtered, highly sterile, and easy to hide behind a bathroom slightly "backstage" but make it available around the park.

 

[englanddg]

It would be enforceable, just not easily. Disney would not want to pay the cost in personnel or the dissatisfaction of the small percentage of customers who still smoke. Smoking is prohibited at most, if not all open air baseball stadiums. So being an outdoor park means little. It can be done. See the underlined text about being asked to leave or ejected.

Arizona Diamondbacks – Chase Field
Chase Field is designated as a non-smoking facility. For those guests wanting to smoke, designated areas outside the facility

Atlanta Braves – Turner Field
Turner Field is primarily a smoke-free facility. Smoking, including e-cigarettes, is permitted in designated areas only. As shown on the ballpark directory and maps, these areas include certain entryways, stairwells and landings. Smoking is prohibited in the seating bowl, concourses, Plaza, restrooms and in all premium seating areas.

Baltimore Orioles – Oriole Park at Camden Yards
Oriole Park at Camden Yards is a smoke-free facility. Smoking is prohibited anywhere inside Oriole Park, including electronic and smokeless cigarettes or any device that mimics the act of smoking.

Boston Red Sox – Fenway Park
Smoking is not allowed in Fenway Park.

Chicago Cubs – Wrigley Field
Smoking is strictly prohibited in Wrigley Field.

Chicago White Sox – U.S. Cellular Field
Pursuant to the Smoke-Free Illinois Act 95-0017, there will be no smoking inside of U.S. Cellular Field. Electric cigarettes, e-cigarettes and vapor cigarettes also are not permitted. The ramps are a part of the building and may not be utilized as a smoking area. A designated smoking area is located on the ground level outside of Gates 2 and 5 (Gate 5 is located on the north side of 35th Street). Smoking is not permitted within 15 feet of any entrance or exit or any air handling units. Guests failing to comply with the policy may be asked to surrender his/her ticket and leave the ballpark.

Cincinnati Reds – Great American Ball Park
Ohio voters passed issue Number 5, on November 7, 2006, which calls for a smoking ban in public facilities and places of employment under Ohio Revised Code Chapter 3794. Thus, Great American Ball Park has been designated as a completely non-smoking facility. Guests are not permitted to smoke inside of Great American Ball Park. Violators may be subject to ejection and potential fines. Electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) are also prohibited.

Every single NCAA SEC Football Stadium is smoke free. I go to more than a dozen games a year, all over the SEC. You'll still find people smoking in them.

Also, it's easy to find the smoking places in Turner Field, and there is a bar that allows it as well as an outdoor area (I know, I have Braves season tickets).

I find the latter far more manageable than passing a rule that won't / can't be enforced...I'd rather smokers and non-smokers be free to have their "spaces", I'm fine with that.

I do think, however, vaping is a bit silly to include in that...but, I see why it is.

 

[Disney.Mike]

Smokers do not have a right to smoke. It can and is regulated by federal, state, and local governments and can be banned at anytime. No where in the constitution is there an enumerated right to smoke. And therefore when Disney eventually removes the last smoking area all the smokers will have to just deal with it.

Please know what your talking about before you speak. The Constitution doesn't grant me rights it restricts the government. Smoking is protected by the Constitution... curse that little "liberty" blurb

 

[englanddg]

Actually that's not true. Since smoking at Disney is restricted to the smoking sections only I have every right to tell a person smoking outside of that area to stop immediately. Funny how laws work, huh?

Again, there is no constitutional right to smoke tobacco. There just isn't. It has been litigated already and the smokers lost. There is no Right to Privacy or Due Process protections for smoking. It can be regulated and it is being regulated. If Disney tells its guests that smoking is prohibited in all areas save for the smoking areas then it is not okay to smoke outside of those areas. I don't get why that's hard to understand. You're rights aren't being taken away because you have no right to smoke in the first place. That is such a specious argument.

Incorrect. You have the right to smoke. However, the property owner has the right to tell you when and where you can smoke on their property (up to and including not being able to smoke at all). But, the moment you are off their property, you can light up as you see fit.

In Florida, the law is limited to enclosed indoor workspaces, with many many exclusions, including private residences, casinos, tobacco shops, smoking rooms designated by hotels and lodgings, or any other business, and "stand alone bars" (which means they generate a certain amount of revenue from alcohol vs food sales (something that, say, La Cava would qualify as). That is the law.

Disney has gone a step beyond this and said they only want it to happen outdoors, and only in designated areas, which is completely within their rights.

I worked for a company that banned smoking on it's private property back in the 80s. A lot of people complained to me about it over the years, but it's a rule that made sense. And, as a private property owner, yes, I can (as their acting authority) ask you to leave if you smoke. If you refuse to leave after I have asked you to, then I can, with legal authority, ask the police to remove you under trespass. You aren't being charged because you "smoked", you are being charged because you didn't leave. If you say "oh, sorry" and put out the cigarette, or move to a designated smoking area, there really isn't much Disney can do.

I don't have a problem with Disney adopting a similar policy, I just think it's silly for them to do so.

 

[rob0519]

I love pontification like this, ban it until its something you enjoy. Then whine like a skewered pig. But but but.

Zealots make me sick. So much for tolerance.

Oh and before you start hen, I've never smoked in my life, too busy choking on all the bull spouted by muppets to get a good drag.

I never said I was in favor of banning anything. What I said was, from an operational standpoint, if Disney had a smoking policy that they will not or cannot enforce, it might be easier to simply ban it all together. The more appropriate ending to your first paragraph would have been butt butt butt.

 

[ThemeParkJunkee]

Hubby and I switched to e cigarettes recently in an attempt to quit. We are doing well with it. He has reduced the nicotine down lower than I have but he has a six month head start. It is stil ridiculous to me that designated smoking areas are moved randomly without warning, removed to the point of walking a half mile to find one and not correct on the maps.

If your theme park does not want smokers in it...just say so. We can vacation elsewhere. Europe is nice.

That said, when they randomly moved the Adventureland smoking area during our stay in October of 2015, we searched for 20 minutes for the relocation. Once found, I gratefully sat down on a piece of wall surrounding a planter and lit up. Others were there curious as to the change. We were discussing it when an irate and overzealous CM. stormed into the area (despite the obvious smoking area signs). And told us we would be kicked out of the park if we smoked there.

I have "walking issues" and 20 minutes of walking to find a spot to sit down for a smoke break affected my physical abilities for the rest of the day. My walking issue is related to breaking an ankle in 2008.

I hated the AK for the reasons above but I love AK!

Yes, I chose to smoke and go to WDW. However I had done it before and DSAs. Get fewer and farther each time I go.

I expect to be free of my habit before my next visit but if not, I hate the idea that if I want one puff off my e-cig, I might have to walk 20 minutes todo so.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Hubby and I switched to e cigarettes recently in an attempt to quit. We are doing well with it. He has reduced the nicotine down lower than I have but he has a six month head start. It is stil ridiculous to me that designated smoking areas are moved randomly without warning, removed to the point of walking a half mile to find one and not correct on the maps.

If your theme park does not want smokers in it...just say so. We can vacation elsewhere. Europe is nice.

That said, when they randomly moved the Adventureland smoking area during our stay in October of 2015, we searched for 20 minutes for the relocation. Once found, I gratefully sat down on a piece of wall surrounding a planter and lit up. Others were there curious as to the change. We were discussing it when an irate and overzealous CM. stormed into the area (despite the obvious smoking area signs). And told us we would be kicked out of the park if we smoked there.

I have "walking issues" and 20 minutes of walking to find a spot to sit down for a smoke break affected my physical abilities for the rest of the day. My walking issue is related to breaking an ankle in 2008.

I hated the AK for the reasons above but I love AK!

Yes, I chose to smoke and go to WDW. However I had done it before and DSAs. Get fewer and farther each time I go.

I expect to be free of my habit before my next visit but if not, I hate the idea that if I want one puff off my e-cig, I might have to walk 20 minutes todo so.

I congratulate you for trying to quit, it really does takes guts as I've known people that quit smoking and how hard it was for them, and others just gave up. But if you are on a plane to Europe you can't smoke and one of the closer flights is about 8 hours to get there. You cannot smoke on planes for all the right reasons. Adults shouldn't smoke as Children don't need to be subject to second hand smoke. What about people on oxygen? It is not a good habit to have, but even more so than that is its effects on other people around you, the smoking area in Adventureland was a pain to get around without inhaling something. The two currently are isolated enough that people can relief themselves if necessary without bothering the public. It honestly is different in a normal outdoor public place like a park as crowds are so much less. Walking may be a problem, but you don't have to smoke, and there's no benefit for yourself.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Everyone please remember Walt Disney himself died from lung cancer by smoking. I personally think that if he could be revived from the dead, and have a say in this day and age this is what he would've wanted if not outright ban it all.

 

[englanddg]

Everyone please remember Walt Disney himself died from lung cancer by smoking. I personally think that if he could be revived from the dead, and have a say in this day and age this is what he would've wanted if not outright ban it all.

I'd agree.

Ban or plan.

That said, if you ban it, people will still smoke at the parks. Americans may respect it (though many won't), but most foreign visitors will not.

And, even if they do, expect a smoke cloud when you exit the parks, as that is where it will happen (people leaving and coming back in, and or the end of the day stroll to the busses / cars).

Just wait and see.

 

[Daveeeeed]

I'd agree.

Ban or plan.

That said, if you ban it, people will still smoke at the parks. Americans may respect it (though many won't), but most foreign visitors will not.

Just wait and see.

Well full on airport style, or Universal style security would help that. For the safety of all guests from a protection perspective, and a ban on selfie sticks, cigarettes etc.

 

[Daveeeeed]

I'd agree.

Ban or plan.

That said, if you ban it, people will still smoke at the parks. Americans may respect it (though many won't), but most foreign visitors will not.

And, even if they do, expect a smoke cloud when you exit the parks, as that is where it will happen (people leaving and coming back in, and or the end of the day stroll to the busses / cars).

Just wait and see.

Agreed, I was just at Disneyland Paris, and they don't listen at all if it is open air. Never had a problem with people smoking inside lines etc. But I still gotta admit and love the smell of that random Guy's pipe in front of potc at DLP Still though it really isn't a good environment for a family setting. Somethings like people have mentioned changing Na'vi's costumes I disagree with to keep a family friendly environment as I think that strips away of Avatar in itself, but banning smoking outright would or at least keep it how it is now is definitely beneficial.

 

[englanddg]

Well full on airport style, or Universal style security would help that. For the safety of all guests from a protection perspective, and a ban on selfie sticks, cigarettes etc.

Universal has smoking areas all over the place. When was the last time you went to Universal?

As far as airport style, someone mentioned indoor controlled spaces a few posts ago, perhaps that is really the best solution?

Trust me, smokers don't want non-smokers to feel uncomfortable. The placement of smoking areas in highly trafficked areas (like the one at Adventureland) were stupid. They make smokers and non-smokers, on average, equally uncomfortable.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Universal has smoking areas all over the place. When was the last time you went to Universal?

As far as airport style, someone mentioned indoor controlled spaces a few posts ago, perhaps that is really the best solution?

Trust me, smokers don't want non-smokers to feel uncomfortable. The placement of smoking areas in highly trafficked areas (like the one at Adventureland) were stupid. They make smokers and non-smokers, on average, equally uncomfortable.

Sorry I meant with security to enter the parks and an airport not smoking policies. Sorry for the misunderstanding. But I do agree that an indoor smoking area might actually be the best way as long as it is kind of concealed and themed to thematically fit. And yeah I know that smokers don't intentionally mean to bother anyone, but the fact of the matter is that it is good for no one.

 

[mickhyperion]

I wish they would make sealed indoor smoking areas. They could add one in each land.. a little themed doorway which matches whatever building in the land its at. They doorway could then leads you through 2 separate sliding glass doorways which would ultimately continue to lead into what is ultimately a big sealed off room... without a chance of the smoke escaping into the lungs of regular park visitors outside. They could decorate the inside of these places with smoking disney villain pictures on the walls and sell special disney parks cigars, etc.

I agree, for the most part. This is essentially what I suggested as well a few pages back. Indoor smoking areas would be a win for both sides. It would be a small investment by Disney that would benefit all guests.

Maybe Disney should create small indoor smoking areas like airports have. The smoke could be contained, properly ventilated, and no one who doesn't want to breathe it in would have to. They could place one in each land/pavilion for convenience, theme them accordingly so they are discreet, and then anyone who would like to smoke could do so without disturbing others or find themselves being looked down upon while they do it.

 

[marni1971]

See the underlined text about being asked to leave or ejected.
.

Yes, we have the same in places in the UK. It means nothing here either.

Im surprised the thread is still open!

 

[englanddg]

Yeah I see what you mean I actually thought of mentioning about the gun-free zone tbh. Personally I think outright banning it is not the correct way to go, as the way they have it at this very moment I think will work very well. But like you said I too would fully be onboard and would be happy with Disney banning smoking from within their parks. We'll see, but that still doesn't make smoking a good thing at all. But on the smell note... the Adventureland smoking location was horribly positioned and you were forced to take it in, but where they are now it shouldn't bother but barely anyone. And it really is not just the smell, a pipe can make it smell good, while cigarettes always have that smokish smell, but it is still bad for you to breath it in whether you are the one standing next to him/her, or you are the one doing it.

I'd support either, but the way Disney has been doing it is silly.

Plan or Ban. That's my stance.

 

[englanddg]

Yeah I see what you mean I actually thought of mentioning about the gun-free zone tbh. Personally I think outright banning it is not the correct way to go, as the way they have it at this very moment I think will work very well. But like you said I too would fully be onboard and would be happy with Disney banning smoking from within their parks. We'll see, but that still doesn't make smoking a good thing at all. But on the smell note... the Adventureland smoking location was horribly positioned and you were forced to take it in, but where they are now it shouldn't bother but barely anyone. And it really is not just the smell, a pipe can make it smell good, while cigarettes always have that smokish smell, but it is still bad for you to breath it in whether you are the one standing next to him/her, or you are the one doing it.

As far as the Adventureland spot, thank god it got closed down.

I hated that spot.

As someone who still smokes, but not regularly, passing smoking sections is a dual issue for me.

First, I'm disgusted by the smell, then I want to smoke.

So, I love the fact they got rid of one so close to a major walkway.

When my kid was younger, I did still smoke regularly, and I hated the one by the Castle, refused to go there after my first "try"...it was right there in the walkway, kids all round, people looking at the lagoon, etc. I couldn't even light it it bothered me so much, even though all I wanted was a quick smoke after eating a huge meal at Cindys.

These "in the walkway" smoking areas don't work. The one over on the rarely used walkway from Tomorrowland to Birthdayland (or whatever it's called now) is fantastic. It's out of the way, it's by the speedway (which is already stinky) and the railway (which is also stinky)...fantastic spot! There are other places around MK to find spots like that, but I find it funny these sorts of threads don't pop up about Disneyland, which has smoking spots all over as well (closer to Universal).

 

[englanddg]

My favorite one there at Disneyland California (when I still smoked often) was near Autopia and Matterhorn, a little spot underneath the monorail lines.

 

[englanddg]

I used the term "family setting"
What I meant with smoking and families is not that kids shouldn't know, but that they shouldn't have to breath it on a main walkway, I think we can both agree to that,

We do.

It is a parents deairiln whether they smoke in front of, or with their children, it is not a good thing to smoke, but it is still an adult's decision.

It is

Alchohol is different as drinking is not bad for you in moderation. Same could be argued for smoking in moderation, but it does have much more lasting effects than drinking in moderation does.

Smoking in moderation does not have "more lasting effects". It's about the volume. Smoking 2 - 3 smokes a day isn't medically provable as any worse as having 2 -3 drinks a day. It's hard to exactly compare the two, but, the basic concept is, abuse of any drug is bad, but moderation won't hurt.

Physical problems are beyond unlikely as it is so brief, but the problem in my mind is on a main walkway (which of course it is not anymore) and for people sensitive

"Sensitive" being the key point.

to fumes, or smoke like people with oxygen tanks or infants. I don't think it bothers anyone the way they have it setup now, as no one should have to smell smoke if they don't want to. See what I'm saying?

I do.

In the end, I think we agree.

Smoking should be relegated to spots which are out of the way and private.

 

[englanddg]

I note, there are 4 spots on a Disney cruise (on the big ships, Dream class) where one can smoke. One is relegated by time, the other is open all hours (but is on the "adult decks")...

And, for the most part (unless very late at night), people respect that.