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"Adios" El Rio del Tiempo!
- Thread starter mousermerf
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scottnj1966
Well-Known Member
If its only going to be closed for three months that would not give them enough time to do a change like that. Probably just a new coat of paint here and there.
It's a good thing I took a lot of pictures back in the day, because the "slow" people of Earth have spoken. Goodbye, classic, wonderful EPCOT Center. Hello, 2nd park with no originality to set it apart.
...and yes, for those wondering, with the word "slow" I'm referring to those that have become so ridiculously lazy from the internet and other similar things in this "I must have it now, entertain me, I'm entitled" society, that they can't take 2 seconds to be educated on the important things in life.
"This is Disney! It's ALL about fun and thrilling things! I want PINS, CHARACTERS, AND RIDES MY CHILDREN WILL ENJOY everywhere on property! I want cake! Duuuuur.....uhhhhhh....more cake!"
Is this what we're doing now? Making fun of people whose tastes run contrary to ours?
For the record, I am neither slow, nor lazy, nor entitled, nor do I fall into the category of "gotta have it now" (my 10 year old car and empty living room should be enough proof of that). I don't think the change signifies the end of the world. But if I did, I'd find a much nicer and more articulate way of expressing that.
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
Yet again, the debate comes up, but it looks like we have some new players in this one, so I will simply state a few divides that have come up before:
1. "Disney World" has two very different meanings to people depending on the focus. There are people who seem to have loved Disney because of their character creations/films/etc. They travelled to Disney World to see the "living" creation of that. Therefore, the characters are integral to the Disney of their Disney World. The other group fell in love with what Disney World created: an escape from the approach of reality and Hollywood. It made an alternate reality that took the good parts of childhood dreams, innovation, etc. and made a living art piece of sorts that showed the best while still feeling "real" to enough of an extent. Unfortuantely, with Disney's corporate approach (and it's a business so not saying that negatively), the characters are a part of our reality. They are everywhere. Therefore, there is something lost when the attractions are infused with these reminders of marketing and generic Disney. There isn't necessarily one that is correct, and Disney seems to be pushing a half-and-half appraoch to all of their parks. Whether you like the Disney or the World can push these.
2. EPCOT was likely the best example of this. It was a celebration of accomplishment. It took reality and made it whimsical, hopeful, and inspirational. The education aspect never really came across for me. I actually think having Donald et al in this attraction may lead to greater educational opportunities (which I will ignore the irony that this may be more educational and less "epcot" although everyone complained that Epcot originally failed because of its educational focus). But, it comes off to me as cheaper and less inspiring. It says, "People are not interested enough in Mexican culture for us to do something based on that alone. We need a highly marketable character for it to be relevant." I hate that sentiment.
I will say that at least the newer incarnations have been done well. They are absolutely destroying something that I loved and what drew me to WDW. But, at least they are giving the other side quality in design. The story and overarching themes are being killed. Half and half doesn't work for those of us that saw the big picture and loved it. But, as everyone loves to say, I can stop going. But remember that as that happens, the problem does mount up since people not going was what led to change in the first place.
1. "Disney World" has two very different meanings to people depending on the focus. There are people who seem to have loved Disney because of their character creations/films/etc. They travelled to Disney World to see the "living" creation of that. Therefore, the characters are integral to the Disney of their Disney World. The other group fell in love with what Disney World created: an escape from the approach of reality and Hollywood. It made an alternate reality that took the good parts of childhood dreams, innovation, etc. and made a living art piece of sorts that showed the best while still feeling "real" to enough of an extent. Unfortuantely, with Disney's corporate approach (and it's a business so not saying that negatively), the characters are a part of our reality. They are everywhere. Therefore, there is something lost when the attractions are infused with these reminders of marketing and generic Disney. There isn't necessarily one that is correct, and Disney seems to be pushing a half-and-half appraoch to all of their parks. Whether you like the Disney or the World can push these.
2. EPCOT was likely the best example of this. It was a celebration of accomplishment. It took reality and made it whimsical, hopeful, and inspirational. The education aspect never really came across for me. I actually think having Donald et al in this attraction may lead to greater educational opportunities (which I will ignore the irony that this may be more educational and less "epcot" although everyone complained that Epcot originally failed because of its educational focus). But, it comes off to me as cheaper and less inspiring. It says, "People are not interested enough in Mexican culture for us to do something based on that alone. We need a highly marketable character for it to be relevant." I hate that sentiment.
I will say that at least the newer incarnations have been done well. They are absolutely destroying something that I loved and what drew me to WDW. But, at least they are giving the other side quality in design. The story and overarching themes are being killed. Half and half doesn't work for those of us that saw the big picture and loved it. But, as everyone loves to say, I can stop going. But remember that as that happens, the problem does mount up since people not going was what led to change in the first place.
Victor
Active Member
I'm sure you aren't slow, nor is everyone who likes the 'new Epcot' slow, but what main street said is very true of the general public. Sometimes there just isn't a nice way to say the truth. People have different tastes, and that's why there are 4 different theme parks to suit those individual tastes.
For the record; these sections of the ride are based on the original If You Had Wings script (and style) - circa mid 1971.
Alot of people seem to have a similar message:
The ride is old, dated, needs updating, and no-one goes on it.
I agree! But are characters really the only way to fix that? Why can't people understand that characters don't need to be thrown on every ride to make it successful and enjoyable? Many, many WDW attractions have been favorites for years without characters...it just has to be done correctly. Personally, I prefer a World Showcase without characters, and while I'm happy to hear El Rio is getting a much-needed update, I'm disappointed that the Three Cabs are going to be a part of it. But maybe I'm just old-fashioned and stuck in the EPCOT Center past
The ride is old, dated, needs updating, and no-one goes on it.
I agree! But are characters really the only way to fix that? Why can't people understand that characters don't need to be thrown on every ride to make it successful and enjoyable? Many, many WDW attractions have been favorites for years without characters...it just has to be done correctly. Personally, I prefer a World Showcase without characters, and while I'm happy to hear El Rio is getting a much-needed update, I'm disappointed that the Three Cabs are going to be a part of it. But maybe I'm just old-fashioned and stuck in the EPCOT Center past
No, and I admit I know plenty of people who fit the description. But that kind of post is not appropriate for this forum. Most of us are going to disagree from time to time but it is not OK to make fun of people just because you've failed to change their minds.
Very true
Am I the only one who thinks Rio was one of the weakest rides in the park? Seriously, other than that very short section in front of the volcano, it's real value was as a retro 70's Loveboat review. Anyone see Julie?
Besides fans, I don't think most people are even aware of the three caballeros, so adding them to the ride would hardly add much to it.
Besides fans, I don't think most people are even aware of the three caballeros, so adding them to the ride would hardly add much to it.
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
This is a very interesting statement. Not to drift the thread, but I wonder how valid this model is today. Obviously, the focuses are different, but Disney seems to be making each of the parks much more similar than they were before. On it's face, I would love to say that each park should be fully independent and have its own offerings (i.e. make MK or MGM the character parks, make Epcot purely reality and educational, etc.). But, Disney is trying to get people to spend mutliple days on property. Therefore, they almost need to create four almost the same, but just different enough parks so people go to all four. But, this dilutes the individuality of the parks, so people don't feel the extreme need to return. It's just an odd conundrum.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
I agree, the only part that really stands out in my memory are the LED fireworks.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Holy Ridiculous Overstatement of the Year, Batman!
I can't believe people are extolling the "educational" aspects of this attraction. El Rio is a dinky little boat tour with a few cute sets that relies way to heavily on video screens who's footage looked dated when it was installed, let alone a couple of decades later.
You may have some sort of a point about the larger state of Epcot, but this situation hardly falls into the World of Motion/Test Track state of things. Let's be honest about what we are talking about here.
El Rio in it's current state is an ABSOLUTE JOKE. Do I ride it every time I'm in the park? Yup, 'cause I'm a sucker for nostalgia and I enjoy the atmosphere of the pavilion. However, there is really nothing redeeming about the whole thing, and nothing terribly accurate to Mexico. As others have pointed out, if you got a sense from that ride about Mexico, you'd be terribly mistaken. Perhaps the Mexico around American-centric tourist traps, but little of the culture is conveyed in the ride that isn't in the marketplace area of the pavilion itself.
So I don't see how adding some characters, if that is indeed what happens, is going to hurt anything. There may be some esoteric meaning behind the ride that myself and 99.9% of the "slow" people (i.e. people that disagree with you) don't get, but if it takes a few characters to get people in there so be it. More people riding the ride is good, no matter what one thinks of the content. People DO come to WDW to be entertained, believe it or not. And while the current ride is cute, and nostalgic, I don't think it has any great meaning nor any great entertainment value that one couldn't get from watching a vintage "Come visit Mexico!" commercial.
I also find it odd that some people are complaining, again, if it really is the rumored overlay, that they would tie in a lesser known film. I think it's GREAT that Disney isn't sticking "Winnie the Pooh and Stitch Go To Mexico" in, and instead using that library they have, not just going by what is currently selling on DVD.
This is another win-win-win for everyone, but people who can't let go of nostalgia and want WDW to remain a museum. We aren't talking about them doing a character overlay of Carousel of Progress, we are talking about a dinky little F-ticket ride that many people don't even know exists, and of those that do ride it the best reaction you get is nostalgic feelings and the laughs from first-time riders at the video projections that are older than many of the guests themselves.
I guess if that makes me "slow", because I see them breathing life into something that desperately needs it, then so be it. I think you are just letting out a rant on something that really doesn't deserve it because you are frustrated about other changes; while I do miss the slower, epic rides of Epcot's past and I still mourn them, I do enjoy most of the new offerings as well and I'd rather have new offerings that people actually attend and enjoy than creaky rides they can't afford to keep up because if they had left Epcot the way it was the place would be a ghost-town.
Now, we know you think you are smarter/better than others (you've come right out and said it here), but do you perchance think that there may be other opinions as valid as yours? I guess I'd rather be slow than myopic, looking at a park through glasses made 20 years ago, because at least if you are slow you will eventually reach the destination; being myopic you can't even appriciate where you've been because you don't know where you are going.
AEfx
Wilt Dasney
Well-Known Member
Your frustration is palpable, Zac, but I hardly see where GenerationX's post showed him to be the slow knuckle dragger you painted in your previous post. He expressed his distaste for the current incarnation of the ride in a very well-stated manner. I think the ride as it stands is charming enough, but I'm not going to write off anyone who finds it lacking as a moron prima facie. Different strokes, after all.
donniedisney
Member
i hope they dont take out the dancing aztec looking guys!!!!!
or any of the bootleg looking tv screen characters
or any of the bootleg looking tv screen characters
tracyandalex
Well-Known Member
we agree that the ride needs updating and are very excited to see what disney has in mind. however, we are a little afraid due to the messing up of JII, but unitl we are given new reason not to we trust disney.
tracy and alex
tracy and alex
AEfx
Well-Known Member
I agree! But are characters really the only way to fix that? Why can't people understand that characters don't need to be thrown on every ride to make it successful and enjoyable? Many, many WDW attractions have been favorites for years without characters...it just has to be done correctly. Personally, I prefer a World Showcase without characters, and while I'm happy to hear El Rio is getting a much-needed update, I'm disappointed that the Three Cabs are going to be a part of it. But maybe I'm just old-fashioned and stuck in the EPCOT Center past
Why?
Why not, is the better question.
Disney has a huge library of characters that people enjoy. People come to Disney to see that. I don't see how the difference between a stuffy old man hosting a ride, or a character, really matter if the show is done properly.
People like characters, they think they are fun. That is why people go to Disney!
We can call them sheeple, or slow, or what have you, but characters have always been there. The 3 Callebros have been meeting and greeting at Mexico since the park opened. There seems to be this misconception that Epcot used to be devoid of characters - it's simply not true. Doesn't anyone else have pictures of themselves with Minnie in her space suit? The truth is, characters (the walk-around type) used to be much rarer in ALL the parks (even MK). The characters were there, even if they weren't hosting rides.
People keep holding onto this concept they believe Epcot was about, but forget that Epcot has always been, in it's final design, a theme park. We can talk about what Walt wanted to build, but we all know that battle was lost before ground was broke. ANd, to be honest, if they HAD built the city...uh, not so much fun. Practical, but not someplace one would take a vacation to visit.
I LOVE the older dark rides. Horizons, WoM, R.I.P. I love that type of experience, and I do miss it at Disney. But I think in the end, characters or no, it comes down to : is the attraction entertaining. Characters shouldn't be the "be all end all panacea", but they also aren't the bane of existence.
People seem to forget that WDW is not an altruistic experiment, but a vacation destination. You are never going to really "educate" people in a theme park ride; you can give them inspiration, but nothing more than a jumping off point. While a dose of education and to broaden your horizons is a good thing (to pardon the pun), the simple fact is at WDW people come get away from schools/jobs/etc. and while it's great to intertwine it, WDW was never meant to be an educational institution.
Just like people who want MGM to be a "real working studio!", sometimes you just have to let it go.
AEfx
Victor
Active Member
You have a very true point. While the parks do rely on different themes, they are slowly starting to seem like they could just be seperate lands of one big park...if that makes any sense :lol: But look, for all the complaints I have of the current Epcot, and all the longing for EPCOT Center of past, I still hold the place very close to my heart. It still remains my favorite. The reason it is my favorite is because I think it stands apart from the other parks, as something a little more original and different. That is why it upsets me to see Disney characters being implemented in the rides, because the more this happens, the more Epcot will blend in with the other parks.
Main Street USA
Well-Known Member
Think whatever you want, but what I said is true. And for the record, I never said I didn't like change. You completely missed the point of my post.
Main Street USA
Well-Known Member
Man, you all are really not comprehending what I posted.
It was obvious that I wasn't directly referring to El Rio, but rather the makeover Epcot has been recieving over the past
decade.
Oh, and if you think America hasn't been dumbed down with the crap I talked about in my other post, then I'd like to knwo where you've been living. All you have to do is open your eyes. You all can call it "opinion" all you want, and say that I don't think others have valid points..................but you'd be wrong.
Victor
Active Member
That is not the only reason people go to Disney. Walt Disney himself said he didn't like to replicate his successes, he liked to move on to something new. When Disneyland opened you weren't surrounded by Disney character driven rides. You had new and original stories being told like Pirates and HM. You wanted characters? You had Fantasyland. Everything else was original, and that is what people fell in love with.
I don't know where you get your information from, but this is true. It wasn't until a few years later that the characters began appearing in the park.
A theme park that is in danger of losing it's original theme.
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