"Adios" El Rio del Tiempo!

[Dwarful]

We always ride El Rio on our trips and will hit it one last time in Dec. I hope that what changes they do make are done correctly (uh Stitch's Great Escape comes to mind..thats one we don't go back to). I wonder though if all of the other new things to do at Epcot pull people from riding this ride. My kids certainly would rather wait for Soarin' or Test Track than ride El Rio and just inserting some characters won't make it more appealing to them.
People skip attractions for various reasons. Some people don't go to CBJ, some don't go to CoP or Hall of Presidents. Thats the great thing about going to WDW, there are choices for everyone.
With that being said, I'd like the ride to focus on the country and not the characters.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

When I was a kid, I owned several educational books that featured Disney characters to illustrate the lessons. Some of Disney's older cartoons had a similar format. Disney has mixed characters and learning for decades outside the parks. If the ride's cultural education aspect is retained, how does Donald Duck being involved detract from that? It sounds like it could make the ride more enjoyable to me.

 

[Magicot]

I do know what they're doing and I've never bashed it...

Corrus, are you pleased with what you know? Is this a definite upgrade? Also, does the country Mexico have a say in these changes?? Are they supportive of their presence in World Showcase like Morocco is?

 

[pixel-dust]

Ch-ch-changes...

I really enjoy the market theme inside the temple. It was always nice to slip into the pavillion mid day and cool off. Not to mention sit down in the boat ride. The ride is dated, and could use some new interest inserted. But like the land, it is a must see when I go.

 

[MMP]

Most of us here are Disney purists. We think it's cute that it's such a tacky little boat ride. Imagine someone coming to Disney for the first time and getting on that ride. They'd probably think it was way below what they would expect from Disney.
It would be nice to see the ride become more relevent and I think the Cabelleros would be a nice and fun addition. It isn't like the ride right now is a super serious tour of Mexico, it's a joke as it is. Plus I love the Cabs and Panchito and I hang out about once a week, I love that rooster!

 

[Victor]

With that being said, I'd like the ride to focus on the country and not the characters.

Exactly, this was always the intention of the Imagineers who designed WS. The focus of all the pavillions should be on the country, the people, and the culture. The problem with adding the Three Caballeros isn't just about throwing in a Disney character when he doesn't belong there, there is also the issue that Donald Duck is an American character. Why is he appropriate to tell the story of Mexican culture? It isn't like he's part of Mexican folklore!

Even though I'm not a fan of adding Nemo to The Living Seas, I get it, and I'll roll with it. This just doesn't work. El Rio does need an update, but this isn't the way to go about it, and I don't get why so many are defending it. It is a slap in the face to all those who worked on the original vision of World Showcase.

 

[MMP]

In the movie "The Three Cabelleros", Panchito, a rooster from Mexico and Jose Carioca, a parrot from Brazil, take Donald to Mexico and South America to teach him about their cultures. How perfect would that be in the world showcase? People would still be learning about the culture but with a little bit of characters thrown in to keep it fun for younger audiences.

 

[Sir Hiss527]

Ok so first of all..is this a fact of the Caballeros? or is this what people want? Has Disney confirmed any of this at all? I like the idea of change, and welcome it to Epcot. I've never actually seen "The Three Caballeros" the movie, so I guess I should try to find it now, and watch it.

 

[Victor]

In the movie "The Three Cabelleros", Panchito, a rooster from Mexico and Jose Carioca, a parrot from Brazil, take Donald to Mexico and South America to teach him about their cultures. How perfect would that be in the world showcase? People would still be learning about the culture but with a little bit of characters thrown in to keep it fun for younger audiences.

And those Caballeros, boy are they great examples of their culture. Let's see there is Jose, the cigar smoker from Brazil...oh, and Mexican parrot Panchito Pistoles (pistoles is derived from the word pistolas which means guns), who is a gunslinger. Just like real Mexicans!

Keep the younger audiences out of Epcot. They don't belong there...bah humbug!

I'm only kidding about that last part...a bit.

 

[Victor]

Ok so first of all..is this a fact of the Caballeros? or is this what people want? Has Disney confirmed any of this at all? I like the idea of change, and welcome it to Epcot. I've never actually seen "The Three Caballeros" the movie, so I guess I should try to find it now, and watch it.

Well, no. None of this is fact yet. You aren't missing much with the short, it was a propaganda film made in the early 40's to promote better relations with South America.

EDIT: Actually, you should catch the film. It has one funny bit where Donald being the American sailor he is starts salivating over a local woman while she sings. Then it jumps into a wildly tripped tripped out sequence which has to be seen to believed. I can't believe I forgot about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwKJj47DP_c

 

[MMP]

I have a feeling Disney would take out the guns and cigar for this the same way they stripped the meet'n'greet Panchito of his holsters and guns. But I'd say that Panchito is about as accurate as those salesmen they have in right now. Or as accurate as the trolls in Norway.

 

[MMP]

Well, no. None of this is fact yet. You aren't missing much with the short, it was a propaganda film made in the early 40's to promote better relations with South America.

It wasn't a short, it's a full length movie. You may be thinking of the short with Jose in Saludos Amigos.

 

[Victor]

It wasn't a short, it's a full length movie. You may be thinking of the short with Jose in Saludos Amigos.

You're right, I was. I get them confused, but Jose featured in both.

 

[Victor]

I have a feeling Disney would take out the guns and cigar for this the same way they stripped the meet'n'greet Panchito of his holsters and guns. But I'd say that Panchito is about as accurate as those salesmen they have in right now. Or as accurate as the trolls in Norway.

Agreed. El Rio isn't without it's problems, but Donald and friends aren't the solution. It's a step backwards, not forwards, in my opinion. As for Norway, the ride deals with Norweigian folklore, so the trolls are forgivable.

 

[mousermerf]

3 Cabelleros is actually a sequel. South American countries fought over who got who got to be featured in the second film, because Saludos Amigos (the first film) was so popular.

Mexico won. Panchito Pistoles was created as a new character.

Jose came from the first film - Donald was already from the first film and the Fab 5.

Anyone who thinks that the film being used to promote the culture of the country through Disney characters is demeaning and offesnsive is neglecting the history of the film.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Maybe I'm off, but the complaints here seem to be asking for an Epcot that never existed (or if it did, is long gone). It's always seemed to me that the "educational" aspect of Epcot has been one lacking depth and nuance. SSE = brief tour of communications history wrapped up in a "we're all in this together" social message. Test Track = a moderately informative look at auto testing. Innoventions = "Hey, here's some neat stuff that you might be able to own someday." World Showcase = a dab of history, some ethnic restaurants, and a healthy dollop of cultural stereotypes.

I've only been visiting the park since 2000 or so, so I can't comment on the 18 years prior to that, but my point is that the Epcot I know has NEVER been one to offer indepth learning experiences. Complaining that this ride is being "dumbed down" or turned into something less than an academically informative experience seems more like a rant against the entire park.

 

[Victor]

Anyone who thinks that the film being used to promote the culture of the country through Disney characters is demeaning and offesnsive is neglecting the history of the film.

The last time I saw it was about 3 years ago. The movie is nothing but a collection of what North America THINKS South America is like. The film was made under wartime while the US was trying to establish close ties with S. America. The Germans had their eye on S. America, and the US wanted to beat them to it. This film, and the short that preceded it are propaganda, plain and simple. Not any kind of real educational tool. I'm almost positive I read that it was comissioned by the US State Department, just like 'Victory Through Air Power'. The film is somewhat entertaining, and I liked it as a kid. But let's see it for what it really is.

 

[DisneyBride94]

First off.. 3 Cabs features Donald. There is a very good chance it will be successful just because of Donald.

World Showcase needs change.. why belittle it? Anything happening is good, especially at a boat ride that no one rides...

Okay...I've never been particularly fond of Donald... Sorry... He really irks me in so many ways.

I think that all of the country pavillions should soley reflect the cultures of said countries...and not be Disneyfied with characters.

The Mexico Pavilion is my personal favorite, and I love El Rio Del Tiempo, though I believe some of the film representations of this pictureseque country need updating.

I hope they do not ruin this attraction... I understand there are those that don't care for it, but my family and I love it.:brick: :hammer:

 

[Victor]

I've only been visiting the park since 2000 or so, so I can't comment on the 18 years prior to that, but my point is that the Epcot I know has NEVER been one to offer indepth learning experiences. Complaining that this ride is being "dumbed down" or turned into something less than an academically informative experience seems more like a rant against the entire park.

That's because you missed out on the Epcot that did offer indepth learning experiences. The Epcot you know, and EPCOT Center are two vastly different ideas.

 

[Tim G]

Corrus, are you pleased with what you know? Is this a definite upgrade? Also, does the country Mexico have a say in these changes?? Are they supportive of their presence in World Showcase like Morocco is?

My personal opinion?? Yes, I'm pleased with the plans presented... don't know what the outcome will be... but I'm optimistic...