A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

[lazyboy97o]

Well, it gets more attention in the form of refurbs and updates that have been needed for about the past decade that would easily make any WDW fan jealous.

While people like to ascribe this to the fans and management caring more, it ignores that Disneyland killed two guests thus prompting the State of California to greatly increase it's oversight of fixed amusements.

 

[HMF]

While people like to ascribe this to the fans and management caring more, it ignores that Disneyland killed two guests thus prompting the State of California to greatly increase it's oversight of fixed amusements.

Thanks to Paul Pressler.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Thanks to Paul Pressler.

Whose business model remains in place at Walt Disney World and Disneyland Resort.

 

[HMF]

Whose business model remains in place at Walt Disney World and Disneyland Resort.

I agree but the problem is more pronounced at Walt Disney World probably due to Florida's lax regulations.

 

[Cesar R M]

For both or just Disneyland?
Edit: another thread said both!!!

Also you just know Universal's going to chirp in soon about Nintendo!!!

are they really going with that date for DHS?
I mean, considering TDO's reputation... I wouldn't be surprised if delays.. stretching the date..etc..etc..

 

[Cesar R M]

I understand that you're upset with "rip-and-replace" and think Disneyland is somehow better in this aspect. But what exactly do you want preserved at WDW that was replaced? Also, you're complaining about how closely spaced apart WDW's attractions are? Have you been to Disneyland lately? I'm very glad that Magic Kingdom (and all other castle parks after Disneyland- and all DIsney parks in general) didn't try to shove everything into Disneyland's tiny footprint. It's not a good thing when Disneyland has Indy's queue dumping over past Jungle Cruise, who's queue is dumping into a gift shop. It's not good that Pirates's queue weaves over into Tarzan's Treehouse, whos queue dumps out into the middle of Adventureland. Fantasyland has lines dumping all over the place too. Same for Tomorrowland- it's not a positive to have Star Tours, Astro Orbiter, and Buzz Lightyear all flooding into the tiny Tomorrowland paths. Even HKDL omitted most of the West Side because of the cluster**** of theming and guest control that Disneyland has due to "how far one has to walk at Disneyland before encountering an attraction". If you're taking about the attraction count, sure I'd like to see a few more rides at Magic Kingdom- but no the DENSITY of Disneyland's attractions is an absolute mess and I'd never want to see Magic Kingdom operate that way.

Magic Kingdom: Tomorrowland has nothing of import to keep around from earlier versions. I hope that they "rip-and-replace" the majority of what's currently there- nothing is really worth saving in the entire land. 20k Leagues is possibly the only thing I see around the entire history of the Magic Kingdom that I'd like to have back- and even then it was removed for good reasons. Mr Toad and Snow White were cute little dark rides that never had a line. Nobody beyond a few diehards even noticed that they disappeared- and most people vastly prefer SDMT and Pooh to their predecessors. Same goes for Mickeys Starland/Birthdayland or whatever.

EPCOT: I won't even go there, except to say that I welcome the IP. Nemo, Frozen Ever After, and 3 Caballeros are all better than the rides that they replaced and are consistently popular now compared to being total afterthoughts before. I loved the Living Seas, but it's time had come. Maelstrom rivaled Superstar Limo in terms of stupidity and "culture" value- glad there's something worth riding there now that families can enjoy. Caballeros is an unquestioned improvement to El Rio as well. The rest of the park though, you'll get no argument from me beyond the fact that Horizons, World of Motion and Energy were hopelessly outdated and unpopular when they closed- and I can't imagine what would have made them relevant again.

Hollywood Studios: The huge removals over the couple of years have made the park no worse except for the loss in capacity. It would have been ridiculous to expand Toy Story Land or Star Wars land into new areas of the park while keeping the animation stuff, streets of America and the garbage tram tour. Glad so see Disney "rip-and-replace" that rubbish that nobody cared for. The only thing back there that was remotely worth of keeping was lights motors action (and even that's iffy). I'm not sure Toy Story Land is going to be much of an upgrade compared to the stuff it's replacing- but that doesn't change the fact that all of the previous stuff needed to be "ripped-and-replaced".

Animal Kingdom: The only thing that's been "ripped-and-replaced" here is Minney Mickey. Lion King went to it's proper land, the character meets moved to a better location, and Avatarland is clearly head and shoulders above anything Minney Mickey offered. Again, I'm very happy that the subpar stuff in Minnie Mickey was replaced and not kept.

Then again, your argument that Disneyland is better doesn't hold any water. All of Tomorrowland at Disneyland has been ripped-and-replaced over and over. New Fantasyland 1983 was rip-and-replace. Thunder Mountain was rip-and-replace. So was Bear Country-to-Critter Country. Then of course there's DCA- more half of the park has been rip-and-replaced and the park is less than 20 years old.

Nemo, Frozen, 3 caballeros.. better..
...while not keeping the animation stuff, streets of America ..... good

 

[Cesar R M]

Either you know this statement is ludicrous, or you've never come across Disneyland fans.

Oh, and folks, the grass is always greener. The whole "Disneyland gets all the attention!" is blown out of proportion.

Well, they got a new parade.. while MK had the same falling apart one.. then gets nothing after shipping it to disneyland..
They get new fireworks, full party, special stuff, world of color, fixings ROA and fantasmic, star wars and content.. new heads..etc.. Meanwhile MK only got a new castle show (after who knows how many years) aand.. hu.. nothing else apart from the show and the new heads? oh, and MK closing attractions and still delaying plans to get things working there.

According to some people, yes.

How many attractions are there combined in DCA and Disneyland?
How many are there for the entire of WDW?

 

[Cesar R M]

Let's just say that during the fight scene between Captain Hook and Peter Pan towards the end, the skin on his arm was kind of loose... Not totally off, but his joint was visible.

I wonder if Captain Hook finally had enough of losing.

That and peeling paint in "it's a small world" got me kind of frustrated. Now I would have told a cast member, but I didn't at the time. Should have. It was in December of 2015.

Stitch at WDW had similar damage last time I seen it.. not pretty.

 

[Mike S]

While people like to ascribe this to the fans and management caring more, it ignores that Disneyland killed two guests thus prompting the State of California to greatly increase it's oversight of fixed amusements.

Getting new Yetis for the Matterhorn isn't exactly related to safety though. That one particularly is a mighty big thorn in any WDW fan's side.

Also any other general updating of effects that are purely cosmetic like Alice in Wonderland.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Well, they got a new parade.. while MK had the same falling apart one.. then gets nothing after shipping it to disneyland..
They get new fireworks, full party, special stuff, world of color, fixings ROA and fantasmic, star wars and content.. new heads..etc.. Meanwhile MK only got a new castle show (after who knows how many years) aand.. hu.. nothing else apart from the show and the new heads? oh, and MK closing attractions and still delaying plans to get things working there.


How many attractions are there combined in DCA and Disneyland?
How many are there for the entire of WDW?

Most of the things you mentioned we got because of other circumstances.

Not sure what the number of attractions at the DLR have to do with the amount of "love" the parks get from the big wigs. I'm not denying that the DLR receives attention, but I've read a few posts where people describe Disney as being "perfect," or "near perfect," and I scratch my head.

Regarding the attention the DLR receives, guest demographics and location most likely have a lot to do with it. Also, according to others, management at WDW is poor. I remember someone writing about their experience at Disneyland over in the DL forum, and explaining how they overheard two executives from WDW in Indy's queue talk about how the DLR spends too much money and discussed different ways they would have cut corners and saved money for Indy. Seems some of them just don't care. Also Disneyland gets a lot of support from people like Tony Baxter and John Lasseter.

When it comes down to it, the way Disney is handling both resorts absolutely SUCKS.

 

[TP2000]

How many attractions are there combined in DCA and Disneyland?
How many are there for the entire of WDW?

I counted. Because I'm very, very busy.

Disneyland Resort (Disneyland & DCA) has 77 "Attractions", 55 of which are rides that involve a moving ride vehicle. 16 of those current rides are E Tickets. (E Tickets = Jungle, Indy, Pirates, Mansion, Splash, Thunder, Small World, Matterhorn, Space Mt., Submarines, Star Tours, Soarin', Grizzly, Screamin', Guardians Mission:Breakout, Radiator Springs Racers)

WDW Resort (MK, Epcot, DHS & DAK) has 78 "Attractions, 46 of which are rides that involve a moving ride vehicle. 20 of those current rides are E Tickets. (E Tickets = Jungle, Pirates, Mansion, Splash, Thunder, Small World, Space Mt., Soarin', Energy, Mission: Space, Test Track, Spaceship Earth, Star Tours, Tower of Terror, Rock n' Roller, Great Movie Ride, Everest, Dinosaur, Kali, Kilimanjaro Safari)

You could be generous and count the five World Showcase pavilions that have no theater or ride (UK, Morocco, Japan, Italy, Germany) as an "Attraction", even though they are just a nicely themed courtyard with shops/dining. If you count those five pavilions as separate "Attractions", that gets you to a total of 83 attractions for WDW, compared to Disneyland Resort's 77 attractions.

There are currently six new rides under construction at WDW (Nav'i River Journey, Flight of Passage, Star Wars Ride 1, Star Wars Ride 2, Slinky Dog Dash, Alien Saucer Swirl), and two new rides under construction at Disneyland (Star Wars Ride 1, Star Wars Ride 2).

By 2019 when those rides are completed, that would take the total number of attractions with moving ride vehicles to this total:

Disneyland Resort: 57 Rides, 18 are E Tickets
WDW Resort: 52 Rides, 23 are E Tickets

Or the grand total of attractions, as rides or theater shows, at this total for 2019:

Disneyland Resort: 79 Attractions
WDW Resort: 86 Attractions

This doesn't include major live entertainment in the parks like parades, water shows, and fireworks. Nor does it include minor park entertainment like bands, characters, streetmosphere, or dancing (Disneyland only).

 

[Little Green Men]

I counted. Because I'm very, very busy.

Disneyland Resort (Disneyland & DCA) has 77 "Attractions", 55 of which are rides that involve a moving ride vehicle. 16 of those current rides are E Tickets. (E Tickets = Jungle, Indy, Pirates, Mansion, Splash, Thunder, Small World, Matterhorn, Space Mt., Submarines, Star Tours, Soarin', Grizzly, Screamin', Guardians Mission:Breakout, Radiator Springs Racers)

WDW Resort (MK, Epcot, DHS & DAK) has 78 "Attractions, 46 of which are rides that involve a moving ride vehicle. 20 of those current rides are E Tickets. (E Tickets = Jungle, Pirates, Mansion, Splash, Thunder, Small World, Space Mt., Soarin', Energy, Mission: Space, Test Track, Spaceship Earth, Star Tours, Tower of Terror, Rock n' Roller, Great Movie Ride, Everest, Dinosaur, Kali, Kilimanjaro Safari)

You could be generous and count the five World Showcase pavilions that have no theater or ride (UK, Morocco, Japan, Italy, Germany) as an "Attraction", even though they are just a nicely themed courtyard with shops/dining. If you count those five pavilions as separate "Attractions", that gets you to a total of 83 attractions for WDW, compared to Disneyland Resort's 77 attractions.

There are currently four new rides under construction at WDW (Star Wars Ride 1, Star Wars Ride 2, Slinky Dog Dash, Alien Saucer Swirl), and two new rides under construction at Disneyland (Star Wars Ride 1, Star Wars Ride 2).

By 2019 when those rides are completed, that would take the total number of attractions with moving ride vehicles to this total:

Disneyland Resort: 57 Rides, 18 are E Tickets
WDW Resort: 50 Rides, 22 are E Tickets

Or the grand total of attractions, as rides or theater shows, at this total for 2019:

Disneyland Resort: 79 Attractions
WDW Resort: 82 Attractions (87 Attractions if you include the five World Showcase countries without theaters/rides)

This doesn't include major live entertainment in the parks like parades, water shows, and fireworks. Nor does it include minor park entertainment like bands, characters, streetmosphere, or dancing (Disneyland only).

What about the 2 rides coming to DAK? Are those included already?

 

[TP2000]

What about the 2 rides coming to DAK? Are those included already?

You know, I sat there staring at that list, and then watching the Johnny Carson rerun playing on the TV, thinking "What did I forget?". Thank you!

It's been fixed.

 

[Little Green Men]

You know, I sat there staring at that list, and then watching the Johnny Carson rerun playing on the TV, thinking "What did I forget?". Thank you!

It's been fixed.

Lol no problem!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Getting new Yetis for the Matterhorn isn't exactly related to safety though. That one particularly is a mighty big thorn in any WDW fan's side.

Also any other general updating of effects that are purely cosmetic like Alice in Wonderland.

Even that sort of stuff is influenced by more routine work. Operations has to close down attractions more frequently and as such they have learned how to live with attractions being closed.

 

[Mike S]

Even that sort of stuff is influenced by more routine work. Operations has to close down attractions more frequently and as such they have learned how to live with attractions being closed.

So nothing will change until people die.

*not it*

 

[HMF]

So nothing will change until people die.

*not it*

People have already died because of TDO incompetence.

 

[rushtest4echo]

For those who take issue with Disneyland vs WDW for "attractions"

Entertainment is a major attraction for most people. In fact, there are those (like me and my wife) that are perfectly happy going to any of the WDW parks and not riding almost anything. We've had countless times where we've gone to EPCOT for a festival (mind you, we don't drink) and just watched Illuminations. We saw Ashley Brown & Josh Strickland the other night and didn't ride a thing. We did Hollywood Studios last Saturday and while we ended up riding Tower of Terror and Star Tours, we were really just there for the Frozen Sing Along (the male storyteller who has been there since day 1 is a riot, still going strong), Fantasmic and the Star Wars nighttime show. We frequently visit Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom for shows/animals too. When we used to live closer to the parks and didn't have to deal with gate blockouts, we would stop by to just catch Wishes and Spectromagic.

Now lets compare that to Disneyland Resorts abysmal entertainment. For the last 15 years, Fantasmic has been in and out of mothballs. For most of that time, the show would abruptly shut down for the entire fall period or from Jan-Jun for no reason. Even during Spring and other busy times, we were LUCKY to get Fantasmic Fri-Sun. This went on for most of the late 90's and has continued for the most part up till today. I appreciate the updates and all, but I'd much prefer it being shown nightly throughout the year like DHS's version has been for most of its life. I'm sure visiting guests appreciate being able to see DHS's lesser Fantasmic on a nightly basis compared to getting an upgraded one that spends 1/2 of the year not showing. Wishes is 365 days a year except for ticketed events (boo!), whereas tonight (and most "off peak" weeknights) there are no fireworks and it's been that way for 20 years at Disneyland. There is also no day parade at Disneyland today, nor is there one at DCA. World of Color has one showing, as does MSEP. It's lucky that I'm posting this today and not on a Tuesday or Wednesday, when the majority of stage shows have "gone dark" for 20+ years every two days a week. Mickey and the Magical Map (which is fab) is also dark throughout the week during "off peak". Even during busy periods there are few fewer show times compared to WDW's stage shows.

We made the mistake of assuming that Disneyland had cleaned up their act on this stuff last year without thinking about show schedules (we don't need to check them here, as most stuff is just daily throughout the year) and we ended up missing a large portion of DLR's entertainment because of it. Every day, you have the castle show, a day parade, fireworks (and night parade nightly for decades up till MSEP left), you have Fantasmic, Frozen, Beauty and the Beast, Indy Stunt Show, the Star Wars show (previously lights motors action as well), Lion King, FInding Nemo, and all of the EPCOT entertainment. This stuff doesn't have an "off peak", and it doesn't "go dark" during the week even during peak times like Disneyland does.

To conclude, I certainly agree that DLR has way more rides, but if you consider entertainment especially DAILY entertainment, WDW crushes DLR. Sure, I'd like to see more rides at WDW's parks, but I'd also like to see Disneyland stop acting like a budget destination when they're pulling dailies of 25,000 and acting like it's "off peak". Disneyland's lack of entertainment is just as embarrassing, if not worse than WDW's attraction count.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think Shanghai's Tomorrowland encapsulates how different the 1970s and 2010s approach design. Our Tomorrowland is an extremely simple layout that allows for easy access and egress. It's straightforward. Even the most inexperienced traveler isn't going to find themselves lost or confused.

Compare that to Shanghai, and it's starkly different. The wide open spaces do allow for greater visibility, but it's still far too easy to get confused. One particularly irksome area is a circular ramp leading up to Tron. The intuitive way for me and my traveling companion would be to follow this major access point up in the queue, but in fact we were accidentally heading into the exit. We did this over and over, and we were there 3 days. I'll defend myself (I'm not that dumb ) by pointing out they had a cast member specifically stationed with a fence and I saw other guests consistently making the same mistake. That sort of thing is just kind of maddeningly obvious.

They also ironically buried away several attractions making them difficult to locate, part of the reason I suspect Buzz gets low wait times.

I'm still somewhat at war with myself on the land as a whole. It really is a sight to behold and has neat design cues throughout. The whole land celebrates movement, and that's something that harkens to the Tomorrowlands of old. The ambiance is great too. I really like the visuals, but design encompasses all aspects of a project, including functionality.

I'd say it's a cool land with rookie mistakes.

Part of the reason I'm so intrigued by a New Tomorrowland at Walt Disney World is seeing what can be accomplished with a classic more rigid layout. Arguments can be made that the meandering pathways of Shanghai and New Fantasyland have taken it too free form, and that a correction is needed.

The design of SDL also allows for easy surveillance remember china is still very much a police state

 

[ford91exploder]

Thanks to Paul Pressler.

Of Whom we have the second coming of in Chappie