A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

[Kman101]

To sum it all up, costs are ridiculous.

 

[Princess Leia]

Those sound like minor quibbles to me of someone who had expectations that weren't meant in their head LOL

I think so too. The whole CGI to de-age or age an actor seems to be a mixed bag, looking at the examples we have. For example, I think that the CGI used to make Peggy Carter elderly in Captain America 2 works, but a girl I went to college with thought it was horrendous. Recently, in Westworld, Anthony Hopkins had a couple scenes where they used CGI to make him younger... In one scene it worked, but in another, it wasn't so pretty. I get why they did it in the case of

Spoiler: Rogue One spoiler

Tarkin

, but they could have hired the actor who portrayed him briefly in Episode III, like they did with Mon Mothma. I'll feel a lot more comfortable judging that when I actually get to see the movie (2 days!!!!!!!)

Like you said, minor quibbles

 

[DDLand]

• Midway Mania was approved earlier than the $1.2 billion DCA redo
• RSR alone was in the $200 million range, the whole land was $500-600 million

Yes, but he's saying quite the opposite. I'm struggling to see how his math would make sense. I want to him to explain, for the sake of discussion, how all his numbers come together.

TSMM counted separately in the case can't be right. If his Cars Land number is accurate, then some other projects had to do heavy lifting. TSMM would be one of them.

@WDW1974's quoted expansion cost was 1.7 Billion including WoC and TSMM. @rushtest4echo isn't inclined to believe Spirit (you can look at some of his earlier posts in this thread to glean that much) so I wanted him to make his point.

Not that really am inclined to believe him over others, but it's at least worth giving everyone a fair chance to explain and clarify.

 

[Kman101]

I think so too. The whole CGI to de-age or age an actor seems to be a mixed bag, looking at the examples we have. For example, I think that the CGI used to make Peggy Carter elderly in Captain America 2 works, but a girl I went to college with thought it was horrendous. Recently, in Westworld, Anthony Hopkins had a couple scenes where they used CGI to make him younger... In one scene it worked, but in another, it wasn't so pretty. I get why they did it in the case of

Spoiler: Rogue One spoiler

Tarkin

, but they could have hired the actor who portrayed him briefly in Episode III, like they did with Mon Mothma. I'll feel a lot more comfortable judging that when I actually get to see the movie (2 days!!!!!!!)

Like you said, minor quibbles

Yeah, CGI is a tough one, sometimes it works and sometimes it does't. It depends. And it also depends on whether you can suspend disbelief enough and just go with it. You know the actor is older or not with us anymore so I can see that it may take you out of the scene. I have no doubts that, overall, this movie will be well received and it will do gangbusters at the box office. But will it hold up after 20-30 years like the others? I think that's what the question should be. Will it stand up as a great Star Wars movie?

 

[Princess Leia]

Yeah, CGI is a tough one, sometimes it works and sometimes it does't. It depends. And it also depends on whether you can suspend disbelief enough and just go with it. You know the actor is older or not with us anymore so I can see that it may take you out of the scene. I have no doubts that, overall, this movie will be well received and it will do gangbusters at the box office. But will it hold up after 20-30 years like the others? I think that's what the question should be. Will it stand up as a great Star Wars movie?

Well it is the first one since Attack of the Clones (or maybe Revenge of the Sith) to address that there's a war going on lol

 

[HauntedPirate]

I agree 100% about TSL, but don't forget that SWE is getting two restaurants and a store, along with the E-tickets. It should have a third attraction (and a fourth), but the glaring amount of unused space shouldn't be as noticeable as TSL.

Personally, I think they should be gunning for DL's Fantasyland when it comes to number of rides for DHS's SWL - Cram in as many C/D ticket rides as they can, and, as mentioned above, one big E-ticket "weenie". As has been noted doz... hund... thousands of times - That park NEEDS RIDES!!! It's not as if the Star Wars universe doesn't allow for the creation of more than 2 attractions based on it or anything...

That's my preference, anyway, YMMV.

 

[Princess Leia]

Cars 2 was pretty bad.
but lets be honest.. The Oscars have been plagued by the disease called "The animated features do not interest me, therefore I will vote for disney or absent myself because Im too lazy to watch the others".

Oh, don't get me wrong, Cars 2 was awful. I remember when it got nominated for a GG, I was pretty surprised. The Academy Awards, however, didn't nominate it.
Also, Disney didn't win an Academy Award for Best Animated Feature until Frozen. The category has been mostly dominated by Pixar (which is now owned by Disney, but minor details).

• 2001- Shrek (Dreamworks)
• 2002- Spirited Away (Studio Ghibli, Disney only provided the English adaptation and barely promoted the movie)
• 2003- Finding Nemo (Pixar)
• 2004- The Incredibles (Pixar)
• 2005- Wallace & Gromit: Curse of the Were-Rabbit (Aardman Animation/Dreamworks; Disney and Pixar didn't even have a film up for nomination this year)
• 2006- Happy Feet (Warner Brothers)
• 2007- Ratatouille (Pixar)
• 2008- WALL-E (Pixar)
• 2009- Up (Pixar)
• 2010- Toy Story 3 (Pixar)
• 2011- Rango (Paramount; No Disney or Pixar films nominated)
• 2012- Brave (Pixar; yes I'm still salty that Wreck-It Ralph didn't win)
• 2013- Frozen (Disney)
• 2014- Big Hero 6 (Disney)
• 2015- Inside Out (Pixar)

So, as you can see, it's not exactly a Disney-dominated field. It's a Pixar-dominated field (distinction needs to be made, because even though Pixar is owned by Disney now, it was on it's own until 2006).

• Pixar: 8 movies
• Disney: 2 movies
• Dreamworks: 2 movies
• Studio Ghibli: 1 movie
• Warner Brothers: 1 movie
• Paramount: 1 movie

 

[Princess Leia]

Personally, I think they should be gunning for DL's Fantasyland when it comes to number of rides for DHS's SWL - Cram in as many C/D ticket rides as they can, and, as mentioned above, one big E-ticket "weenie". As has been noted doz... hund... thousands of times - That park NEEDS RIDES!!! It's not as if the Star Wars universe doesn't allow for the creation of more than 2 attractions based on it or anything...

That's my preference, anyway, YMMV.

It's a Small World... Only with the aliens. I'm not saying it's a great idea, but it's probably the best way to incorporate the vast amount of species that would be difficult to produce as CM costumes. You could get ewoks, jawas, Salacious B. Crumb (let's pretend he didn't blow up with Jabba's cruiser)... gungans ... banthas, whatever Sebulba was (I can't remember), sarlaccs, wookiees, etc. DHS needs a boat ride.

Again, it's not exactly the best idea, but it's what I've got.

 

[rael ramone]

I agree 100% about TSL, but don't forget that SWE is getting two restaurants and a store, along with the E-tickets. It should have a third attraction (and a fourth), but the glaring amount of unused space shouldn't be as noticeable as TSL.

If it ends up being DHS's 'CabanaLand', it's my guess that there probably won't be any unused space (unused by guests in general, on the other hand...)

 

[Mike S]

That's kind of my take. TSL is IMHO an abomination with what we are getting relative to how much land and money is being used. DHS is screaming for a lot of new attractions, especially all ages stuff and what they came up with is so lacking.

In the same footprint, they could have done a more generic "PIxar" area with ~4 additional rides (2 flat rides and 2 dark rides). Even if they were all C-tickets, that would be fine because the key would be to up the attraction count and capacity before Star Wars opened. It's crazy that they are only adding two rides that will both have height restrictions and neither will have all that great capacity.

While they are at it, they also need to bring back a daytime parade for DHS and should have already updated the existing shows to new offerings (and tried to add other offerings, like perhaps the idea of a show in the Fantasmic theater during the day or more regular offerings in the "Flex" theater).

I actually don't mind the Star Wars plans and think two E-tickets for DHS is fine as long as they prepared the park with other offerings beforehand. Though DHS would have really benefited from the alleged cut third ride for that land. I do wonder what other things might be available in Star Wars in terms of non-ride things -- at the very least, I'm hoping/assuming there will be an updated version of Jedi Training and hopefully there might be other stuff like walk throughs to increase the "things to do" capacity.

Who would've thought we would one day see Universal schooling Disney on how to add an "all ages family area" to a park that needs one. And just like TSL Nintendo is being cloned all over.

I agree, though I think DAK is in better shape simply because the animal exhibits (and Rafiki's to some extent) provides a significant opportunity for "stuff to occupy folks" who are looking for more to do in the park beyond the rides/shows. That's less true at DHS, especially now that they've removed the SoA and a lot of the "backstage" type exhibits.

Don't get me wrong, though, DAK needs more attractions beyond Pandora, but I don't think it will be in nearly as bad shape as DHS.

Both DHS and DAK would benefit from some large scale entertainment though for the mid-day. Like a daytime parade at DHS and a water show (think Mythica) at DAK to utilize the RoL theater. That would greatly help with the concerns about not sufficient attractions.

Those also close before the rest of the park does and not everyone does them. Sadly.

I did them last trip though and had a great time.

I think so too. The whole CGI to de-age or age an actor seems to be a mixed bag, looking at the examples we have. For example, I think that the CGI used to make Peggy Carter elderly in Captain America 2 works, but a girl I went to college with thought it was horrendous. Recently, in Westworld, Anthony Hopkins had a couple scenes where they used CGI to make him younger... In one scene it worked, but in another, it wasn't so pretty. I get why they did it in the case of

Spoiler: Rogue One spoiler

Tarkin

, but they could have hired the actor who portrayed him briefly in Episode III, like they did with Mon Mothma. I'll feel a lot more comfortable judging that when I actually get to see the movie (2 days!!!!!!!)

Like you said, minor quibbles

I noticed right away that Peggy Carter looked off when aged with CGI. Real makeup works better to make someone older.

Yeah, CGI is a tough one, sometimes it works and sometimes it does't. It depends. And it also depends on whether you can suspend disbelief enough and just go with it. You know the actor is older or not with us anymore so I can see that it may take you out of the scene. I have no doubts that, overall, this movie will be well received and it will do gangbusters at the box office. But will it hold up after 20-30 years like the others? I think that's what the question should be. Will it stand up as a great Star Wars movie?

Michael Douglas CGI'd younger in Ant-Man worked for me.

 

[BrianLo]

I think what @BrianLo is saying is that an E-ticket might be more profitably exchanged for a half dozen A-D tickets instead at DHS. So instead of a 2-E ticket SWL you would have a half dozen A-D tickets and an E-Ticket 'steaming weenie'.

Yup.

An analogy is Disneyland is a couple and DHS a family of six who both have the same budget to buy a meal. Disney has decided to take them both to a fancy restaraunt instead of buying the family of six a party sized pizza.

I don't prefer Star Wars get scaled down, nor do I think the family should be denied the same experience, but there is no denying they need a bigger budget to be left satisfied. If they are no longer budgeting extra for a proper third phase, the money they are spending could have been spread out a bit better.

Quantity vs Quality, where there is diminishing returns on quality after a while. They've gone all in on quality for Star Wars. Which is not a bad thing, but it's not exactly smart spending either for a starving park.

To tie it all back in to what Tim was saying in that podcast, there is a balance to be struck between underspending as in WDS and overspending in TDS. TDS is all well and good if you have unlimited money, but if you are given a budget in between WDS and TDS is it more preferable to build extremely high quality lands, but only 2-3 of them? Or build a full park that's not quite as extravagant?

Every project WDI faces nowadays they treat like TDS. High quality, but quantity and capacity etc. is majorly suffering at diminishing returns. Which is fine for DL. Not so for DHS.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah, CGI is a tough one, sometimes it works and sometimes it does't. It depends. And it also depends on whether you can suspend disbelief enough and just go with it. You know the actor is older or not with us anymore so I can see that it may take you out of the scene.

Suspension of Disbelief is a reaction, not an action.

 

[culturenthrills]

Don't delete it until you've seen it for yourself! Some of my favorite movies have bad reviews (like Casper and Hook!). Watch the movie, you might like it. My aunt LOVES Maleficent.



I'm one of few amongst my family and friends who truly dislikes Howard's Grinch film. I found Jim Carey's performance and interpretation of the Grinch to be way too obnoxious and too ridiculous. I also hated the backstory and how materialistic the Whos are in the movie (another completely different aspect from the original source from Dr. Seuss). I MUCH prefer the 1966 animated special (50th anniversary!).

In saying all of this, the movie does have some funny moments (the mail room scene where the Grinch is switching up everyone's mail is my favorite), and I'd rather tune into it before Maleficent, definitely.

I to this day refuse to watch that movie. I love the original and just don't ever want to watch that movie.

 

[ford91exploder]

I agree 100% about TSL, but don't forget that SWE is getting two restaurants and a store, along with the E-tickets. It should have a third attraction (and a fourth), but the glaring amount of unused space shouldn't be as noticeable as TSL.

So SWL land will have more retail and dining than actual attractions, Wonderful, Just Wonderful, People wonder why I call WDW a mall with a cover charge well its because of stuff like this.

 

[Princess Leia]

I noticed right away that Peggy Carter looked off when aged with CGI. Real makeup works better to make someone older.

Michael Douglas CGI'd younger in Ant-Man worked for me.

I forgot about Michael Douglas. It's scary how well that turned out. RDJ in Civil War also got the de-aging treatment. I think it was okay, but didn't work as well as Douglas.

So SWL land will have more retail and dining than actual attractions, Wonderful, Just Wonderful, People wonder why I call WDW a mall with a cover charge well its because of stuff like this.

With the immersive theming, I really think it should work. Diagon Alley only has one ride (two if you count the train), but they also have 2 stage shows (Tales of Beedle the Bard & Celestina Warbeck), 3 semi-attractions (Ollivanders, Gringotts money exchange, and the Knight Bus), a restaurant, an ice cream parlour, and a lot of shops (as it should have, considering it's a wizarding shopping district). They also have interactive magic spots.

If Disney wants to compete with Diagon Alley, they'll need to move the Jedi training academy over to the SWE, as well as come up with a new show (the Star Wars character appearance show has got to go). The Alcatraz ride sounds incredibly promising, as does the levels of immersion (no visible credit card machines), but I really hope that the land will have a music-type of show (like the cantina band, or Jabba's band, or the band from TFA).

 

[Mike S]

Yup.

An analogy is Disneyland is a couple and DHS a family of six who both have the same budget to buy a meal. Disney has decided to take them both to a fancy restaraunt instead of buying the family of six a party sized pizza.

I don't prefer Star Wars get scaled down, nor do I think the family should be denied the same experience, but there is no denying they need a bigger budget to be left satisfied. If they are no longer budgeting extra for a proper third phase, the money they are spending could have been spread out a bit better.

Quantity vs Quality, where there is diminishing returns on quality after a while. They've gone all in on quality for Star Wars. Which is not a bad thing, but it's not exactly smart spending either for a starving park.

To tie it all back in to what Tim was saying in that podcast, there is a balance to be struck between underspending as in WDS and overspending in TDS. TDS is all well and good if you have unlimited money, but if you are given a budget in between WDS and TDS is it more preferable to build extremely high quality lands, but only 2-3 of them? Or build a full park that's not quite as extravagant?

Every project WDI faces nowadays they treat like TDS. High quality, but quantity and capacity etc. is majorly suffering at diminishing returns. Which is fine for DL. Not so for DHS.

Well, not every project...

So SWL land will have more retail and dining than actual attractions, Wonderful, Just Wonderful, People wonder why I call WDW a mall with a cover charge well its because of stuff like this.

Universal started it with Harry Potter.

 

[MrPromey]

Well, not every project...

Universal started it with Harry Potter.

And if Disney is able to do something at that level, it'll be okay. You see plenty of people walking around that area just happy to be there exploring and not necessarily running to the main attraction.

As a theme park, this is what we want. I think this is what they tried to do with NFS but failed miserably as a lot of the theme they attempted to add just feels like obstacles to getting to the attractions. The place making features of SDMT just make it feel like a giant dead space you've got to walk around to get to anything (especially around the back side) and the elaborate queue for UTS:JOTLM feels like a huge waste of space and time when you're basically walking as fast through it as possible to get to the end of the line... to stand and wait in AC.

By contrast, every inch of the Harry Potter expansion in US feels like it is grabbing for your attention. I know Disney is all about the blue ocean strategy but I really hope they have been paying attention to what's been going on up I-4 when thinking about this project. There is a ton of opportunity to capitalize on the SW IP to do something just as good or better as long as the lion's share of that budget doesn't just go into making realistic looking rocks - which is what we saw with a lot of NFL and what I'm kind of fearful of with Avatar once you move beyond the two attractions.

In the case of Avatar in particular, there hasn't been a lot of detail about the land itself and what reason there would be for wanting to be there after you've taken a few pictures of the "floating" set piece.

 

[Princess Leia]

One more quickee (because fanbois know Spirited ones are the best kind!):

Remember when Disney had to pay Coke a boatload of money after Shendi on its own went out and decided that Pepsi would be the official beverage supplier of SDL?

Well, Disney's Legal department just finished paying off Coca-Cola to the tune of tens of millions of dollars because Coke products won't be sold in Star Wars Land, since Coke isn't available in that Galaxy, Far, Far Away. (I always assumed it was RC Cola with maybe some Faygo and Snapple thrown in ... whiny brat Kylo loves his Snapple!) I get and appreciate that Disney wants to copy UNI and the WWoHP. But that worked because all of those drinks and treats and even candies were things that J.K. Rowling had created. They existed.

First Order burgers with black buns are just plain lame (and they sound and look disgusting, so I will not go near that stuff). This is just dumb. Because there isn't a galaxy of SW treats that people know, love and associate with the films. I am guessing Iger has called in the cast of The Chew to create items. Of course, this also sets a bad precedent because it makes people think that the SWE is different or more special than plain old DL.

Anyway, now Legal is working on Visa because WDI doesn't want the Visa logo visible on any SWE cash register or restaurant bill folder, despite Disney's sponsorship contract that says Visa gets that branding privilege. WDI is really taking the story and theme that seriously, no matter the cost. Some might say they are taking things way too seriously.

Bringing this back as it relates to the current conversation. WDI is paying attention to what Uni did right in terms of immersion for HP and Simpsons. This is a good thing.

On that note, I'm surprised that Uni hasn't changed Marvel Super Hero Island to be more immersive. I get that not every land can be HP, Avatar, Simpsons, or Seuss (and fingers crossed, Star Wars), but just looking at the pictures of the dining options, I'm not seeing anything special.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

The amount of money a movie makes doesn't reflect its quality. I'm pretty sure Fifty Shades of Grey made a boatload of cash, and the Twilight Series also made some serious money.

*ahem* Frozen *ahem*

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

Captain America: Civil War was the highest grossing film of the year worldwide and I don't see it's name on any of the categories for the Golden Globes.

And rightly so. It wasn't the best in any of the categories listed. Money is not indicative of a film's quality.