A Spirited Valentine ...

[Daveeeeed]

I am glad to hear the optimism on Pandora. I am equally hopeful that DPL buyout will result in the infusion of new capital there. Per hong Kong, how can they not get size envy with that behemoth(ugly?) castle nearby.

Agreed. Disneyland Paris has probably the prettiest castle park, but also the ugliest Disney Park. It has tons of untapped potential for sure.

 

[wdwgreek]

Agreed. Disneyland Paris has probably the prettiest castle park, but also the ugliest Disney Park. It has tons of untapped potential for sure.

The theming at DLP itself was breathtaking, so well designed, Tony Baxter's finger prints are everywhere on it. However ugly doesn't begin to explain its neighbor, even with some great individual attractions the neighboring park suffers immensely from a lack of coherence. Hong Kong in my opinion was always under built.

 

[rushtest4echo]

Japan does not have the "smog" problem like China does.

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with weatherizing.

Hong Kong in my opinion was always under built.

While I agree, I'm glad to see them being pretty aggressive with expanding the park both attraction and physical space wise. Still, at least it wasn't the overbuilt behemoth disaster that DL Paris was at opening.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

If I may, as of last week, no.

That's good. GotG still going into Energy? or have plans changed?

 

[marni1971]

That's good. GotG still going into Energy??

As of recently I believe so.

 

[ford91exploder]

Can a mod or someone explain to me why my post was deleted without warning?

I assume you are new, questions like this are against the rules PM the mods
wdwmagic or The Mom if you have questions about a mod's actions

 

[DDLand]

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with weatherizing.



While I agree, I'm glad to see them being pretty aggressive with expanding the park both attraction and physical space wise. Still, at least it wasn't the overbuilt behemoth disaster that DL Paris was at opening.

Parc Disneyland was and still is not overbuilt. Hong Kong Disneyland was and still is under built.

Building a park that is too compelling is rarely the issue.

Disney's Hong Kong expansion is them throwing a bone to the government all while spreading out costs over as long as possible and limiting risk. Hong Kong needs more sooner rather than later. 2023 until their match to Pirates comes online is pretty slow. Add in the fact that the Frozen Land will primarily consist of one new dark ride and spinner and I feel like red flags start to manifest themselves.

All for a net gain of 2 rides and 2 stage shows. Plus a really out of place castle... #thankssteve

 

[ford91exploder]

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with weatherizing.



While I agree, I'm glad to see them being pretty aggressive with expanding the park both attraction and physical space wise. Still, at least it wasn't the overbuilt behemoth disaster that DL Paris was at opening.

To an extent smog does influence weatherizing as it requires finishes which are resistant against the corrosive elements in smog and smooth so the particulates don't stick and can be washed off

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

As of recently I believe so.

I guess I'll go a step farther. Are their plans, talks or whatever regarding the old Wonders of life pavilion? It's a shame that it's not used besides the many festivals that have taken over EPCOT.

 

[DDLand]

So, sitting here and the Grammys aren't entertaining me much. I did find it amusing that most of the talent in the 'car' skit with Corden didn't know the words to Sweet Caroline. Yeah, I think about the same of today's music as I do the typical blogger/podcaster/Lifestyler.

Anyway, I do hope and plan on getting to some of the comments, but more news first ... let's start with China (and let's all realize without getting into politics that there are people in the current administration who would like to see us start a war, which would not only kill us all but also be very bad for Disney and UNI's business interests over there).

--- Universal Beijing: As I type this, UNI's Chinese partners should be safely ensconced in Orlando for a week-long series of meetings and planning sessions. You might see groups out in the parks or around the resorts or City Walk. BTW, don't be surprised if one of the huge sound stages at the front of the park that are used for HHNs gets taken over in short order. The big model has to go somewhere (HINT, HINT!) and it looks like it will be right in the middle of the action (with other offices moved into the facility). Right now, Beijing is looking to be about 18-24 months behind schedule.

Following the SDL model, you can expect they'll catch up to a point and then delay and open 6-12 months later than currently scheduled. The resort is looking less and less impressive (beyond the Jurassic World centerpiece, which has had the budget axe taken to it, and the signature restaurant nearby) all the time. The first park seems to largely be a best of type park with almost no unique local product because the UNI planners believe the Chinese audience wants a western experience with nods to the culture more in terms of food and merchandise. I do not agree, but what do I know? The team also sadly lost a key member of the team last month. ... The UNI braintrust also keeps ignoring Beijing's harsh climate in the design phase, which makes no sense and likely will result in this place being a ghost town during large parts of the year. I don't know how many FB photos I've seen of UNI's people in Beijing wearing masks that look like they were just the victims of a gas attack. Much like Disney in Shanghai, UNI just seems so intent on getting into the market that any/all common sense goes out the window.

Beijing is becoming more interesting for what isn't going in, then what is with an early focus on food and beverage and retail that, frankly, I haven't seen since DCA 1.0. ***No, I am in no way comparing the parks lineups on Opening Day. Beijing will be superior in so many ways that such a comparison is foolish.

--- State of Disney in China: All of those plans you have heard for HKDL are still planned, but they aren't set in stone yet and things may well change. The SAR isn't happy with Iger and Burbank, shocking. Taking some of the top WDI talent that worked on SDL and moving them over to this expansion is designed to make HK feel like it is as important to the company (sadly, it isn't) as Shanghai. Castle envy? Who knew ... who knew ...

The Iron Man ride, the company's first real Marvel attraction, hasn't been a huge draw, even though Marvel is quite popular over there. Could it be because the tech is still based on the mid-80s Star Tours?

SDL continues to do relatively well and likely will meet Burbank's goal of 10 million in its first 12 months of operation, but the Guests are not spending on food or merchandise like Americans or Japanese (where have we heard this before? ... oh yeah, Paris!) Phase II (no, not TSL) planning is well underway, but there isn't a rush because the park is successful but not too successful (meaning they don't need to add massive capacity just yet). Disney wasn't thrilled by Rogue One's box office in China. It would seem that out of Bob Iger's vanity acquisitions that Marvel is far more popular in China than BB-8 and Rey and Chewie.

A third hotel will quite likely be greenlighted by the end of the year, but Disney Town remains a struggling venue. The Lion King production is often playing to many empty seats even with discounts offered. And the restaurants and shops are largely a ghost town beyond the very popular Starbucks and World of Disney.

MORE ...

This is disappointing. I had been hoping that Disney and Shendi would want to take its first mover advantage and execute on Phase 2 in the coming years. Drag and drop items like Everest are too easy and would help add variety to the park.

Sometimes it seems like they forget that if they add great stuff it attracts people...

The new hotel is a plus and needed too.

 

[wdwgreek]

Parc Disneyland was and still is not overbuilt. Hong Kong Disneyland was and still is under built.

Building a park that is too compelling is rarely the issue.

Disney's Hong Kong expansion is them throwing a bone to the government all while spreading out costs over as long as possible and limiting risk. Hong Kong needs more sooner rather than later. 2023 until their match to Pirates comes online is pretty slow. Add in the fact that the Frozen Land will primarily consist of one new dark ride and spinner and I feel like red flags start to manifest themselves.

All for a net gain of 2 rides and 2 stage shows. Plus a really out of place castle... #thankssteve

That's really sad. 2023?!

 

[DDLand]

That's really sad. 2023?!

Yes, sad is right.

With that said, it's probably going to be one of the best attractions in the world when it opens. Something along the lines of PotCBftST, Alcatraz, or FJ.

At least that's the vibe I get from the scale and makeup of the project.

6 years isn't awful for a ride like that, but a slightly expedited output by a year or two would have been critical.

 

[marni1971]

I guess I'll go a step farther. Are their plans, talks or whatever regarding the old Wonders of life pavilion? It's a shame that it's not used besides the many festivals that have taken over EPCOT.

Yes there are but nothing concrete yet.

And not for this decade.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Yes there are but nothing concrete yet.

And not for this decade.

Thanks for the information. I'll stop asking questions for the day.

 

[Seabasealpha1]

Being honest, outside of Titanic none of James Cameron's works have had much cultural resonance. He's like the Imagineering of Hollywood, racking up big budgets to go on a vacation for "research purposes" and then spitting something out.

Agreed...

But did you see that film from the dive to the Mariana Trench? Friggin' awesome!

 

[FigmentJedi]

I'll give you Terminator but Aliens is just more of the same (and I would say lesser than) to Alien.

True, but it set the tone for the rest of that series and pretty much every single video game about armored dudes shooting monsters in space owes a debt to that movie.

 

[rushtest4echo]

Hong Kong in my opinion was always under built.

Parc Disneyland was and still is not overbuilt. Hong Kong Disneyland was and still is under built.

Building a park that is too compelling is rarely the issue.

Disney's Hong Kong expansion is them throwing a bone to the government all while spreading out costs over as long as possible and limiting risk. Hong Kong needs more sooner rather than later. 2023 until their match to Pirates comes online is pretty slow. Add in the fact that the Frozen Land will primarily consist of one new dark ride and spinner and I feel like red flags start to manifest themselves.

All for a net gain of 2 rides and 2 stage shows. Plus a really out of place castle... #thankssteve

Not sure I can even respond to allegations that Disneyland Paris wasn't overbuilt at the beginning. I'll just pretend that wasn't said because it's too nonsensical to consider. Hong Kong Disneyland was purposely build in the mold of WDW's Magic Kingdom and MGM Studios- that is to say they didn't want to deal with potential fallout from huge spending and attendance problems that they saw at EPCOT and Disneyland Paris. Yes, HKDL was too small when it opened and had too few attractions. That issue has been mostly rectified and the park is expanding the boundaries again with both new expansions. Being too small is a much easier problem to address compared to being too large- something Paris has never really recovered from.

The size of the park at opening in 2005 was realistically 40 acres. 10 years late it was around 60 acres. In 10 more years it will be closer to 70. And if the next phase is greenlit (past Frozen/Marvel) then the park will be right around 75 acres- or exactly the same size as Disneyland's used acreage today. Given the much lower attendance and attraction count, I'm fine with the physical size.

And are you really upset over any park's 6 year plan of receiving a net of 4 new things to do along with several other re-done attractions? In addition to the new lands, Iron Man and the other major expansions that have come on line over the past decade?

2005- Park opens
2006- Autopia/Stitch
2008- it's a small world
2011- New Land - Toy Story Land (3 minor rides), Flights of Fantasy Parade
2012- New Land - Grizzly Gulch (1 major ride)
2013- New Land - Mystic Point (1 major ride)
2014- Paint the Night
2016- Iron Man Experience
2017- Moana Show
2018- Ant Man
2019- New Castle/Hub
2020- Frozen Land (1 major/1 minor ride)
2023- Marvel Land/Avengers Ride (1 major/1 unconfirmed minor ride)

Toss in a few resorts too...

I'm not sure what else Hong Kong can do for you if you think that they've been lazy... I'm pretty such most people around here would kill for 10 completely new rides, a few overlays, several new shows and 5 new lands (most of which are/will be unique) all to be installed into a park.

 

[FigmentJedi]

2023- Marvel Land/Avengers Ride (1 major/1 unconfirmed minor ride)

1 major and 1 overlay. Buzz Lightyear's being replaced.

 

[rushtest4echo]

Buzz isn't the unconfirmed minor that's being considered, that's a separate deal. In either case, yet another whip/shuffle the cars around a few circles ride in Disney's parks isn't really anything to get excited about whether or not it gets built- especially since something so similar is being installed in Frozen land.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

Welcome back Spirit.

I've been trying to get some information vetted since Emperor Iger opened his mouth and proclaimed 2019 as the year of SW for both coasts. So, I got in touch with as many of my friends as possible and the best they can tell is nothing has really changed. The stretch goal is still for DLR's SWL to come online for the holiday season in 2018 and WDW's many months after that. DLR's timeline is very tight and is going to be dependent on many things beyond their control such as the weather; but, the incentives for the contractors are still in place to get their work done so we can have a very merry 2018.

My Lucas friends believe that the generic 2019 announcement is splitting the differences of what the bicoastal timelines may yield.

And since I've got a minute to post, I will say that my most recent trip to WDW two weeks ago went about as well as I could expect in both the positive and negative attributes. Unfortunately, with the amount of pre-planning a WDW vacation requires, going as expected has become the norm and there is very little in the way of surprises. The greatest amount of last minute surprises came from the Disney After Hours curve ball they threw out at us that required some reshuffling of dinning plans (which fortunately, as long as you have a reservation and are willing to come as early as the first seating, most restaurants are willing to play ball).

Speaking of the After Hours event, I don't care how much it costs - if you've got enough funds to make it happen, you need to do it while you still can. There is NO WAY it's going to stick around with the way it's currently being run. On both of the dates I took in, you would see far more Cast Members than guests. Re-ride to your hearts content. Best value of Disney time/dollar since the late, great Pirates and Princess Party.