A Spirited Valentine ...

[ChrisFL]

I think it's a symptom of a population that is SUDDENLY into wealth and more high class standard of living than a generation ago, but didn't generaly grow up with the same manners and expectations that also comes with it....plus, communism (in the sense that, it's everyone's property?)

 

[flynnibus]

I just want to know what inspired the final poster... or maybe I don't

Chinese culture.. look it up. Public urination is common

 

[Absimilliard]

A French DLP fan site published this interesting lawsuit against Disneyland Paris: https://androland.com/sa-vie-est-un-calvaire-depuis-son-passage-dans-le-space-mountain.html

Basically, the lady claim that since a ride on Space Mountain in 2013, her head hitting the restraint caused internal ear damage and caused her to lose her equilibrium. This is what is she claims to suffer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal_de_debarquement , although I haven't seen cases online where a short 2 minutes roller coaster ride was enough to cause it. Lawsuits usually happen in the States, but I though this was unusual since it happened in France.

 

[ford91exploder]

Hopefully they will announce a refurb of Space Mountain so we don't have the bad PR from an accident with the ride.

Disney is whistling past the graveyard on this one MK needs the capacity of this ride and yet they are repairing it so much you have welding units permanently parked outside so they can weld up cracks in the structure never realizing though they've probably been told by countless engineeers that the cracks are not the problem they are a symptom of a larger problem and that is steel in that application is not immortal it has a lifespan due to metal fatigue

But this is the Paul Pressler philosophy the same one which killed people at DL on two separate occasions the whole run it till it fails philosophy and hopefully we catch it before it kills someone if not hey that's what insurance is for.

The reason DL got a new track was that on a pre operation check the track was found to have broken because of metal fatigue overnight due apparently to a singularly kind $DEITY imagine if the track had broken during operation...

BTW those trim brakes which were installed they are there to reduce the load on the structure ....

 

[ford91exploder]

Thought this thread was a good place to put this in. A new effort to encourage...good guest behavior has started over at Shanghai Disneyland using the zootopia characters to bring the message home! And boy are some of these posters gold.

last and my personal favorite

Cultural differences remember much of China still has squat toilets in the street and no public trash cans Even shanghai still has squat toilets.

The CCP is doing a vast public education program about the use of indoor facilities so to speak. Would not surprise me if these posters are used more widely in the future

 

[ford91exploder]

Is it the Chinese culture?

Yes and the CCP has a huge program to change that aspect of Chinese culture

 

[xdan0920]

Disney is whistling past the graveyard on this one MK needs the capacity of this ride and yet they are repairing it so much you have welding units permanently parked outside so they can weld up cracks in the structure never realizing though they've probably been told by countless engineeers that the cracks are not the problem they are a symptom of a larger problem and that is steel in that application is not immortal it has a lifespan due to metal fatigue

But this is the Paul Pressler philosophy the same one which killed people at DL on two separate occasions the whole run it till it fails philosophy and hopefully we catch it before it kills someone if not hey that's what insurance is for.

The reason DL got a new track was that on a pre operation check the track was found to have broken because of metal fatigue overnight due apparently to a singularly kind $DEITY imagine if the track had broken during operation...

BTW those trim brakes which were installed they are there to reduce the load on the structure ....

Uh.

This is an extremely serious allegation. If this is true, I mean, the repercussions are staggering. Something needs to be done right now. Something more then writing letters to office assistants. Guest relations needs to be flooded. News outlets called. And most of all, we all need to stop riding Space Mountain. Yesterday.

If this is a load of BS, then I think you should probably be banned from this website. No in-between in my eyes.

 

[DDLand]

Hong Kong Disneyland loses 20 Million USD, and falls to 6.1 Million guests for FY 2016.

http://m.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/ar...land-roller-coaster-ride-amid-expansion-plans

For perspective, attendance has been higher than this every year since 2012. Not so good.

 

[gonzoWDW]

Chinese culture.. look it up. Public urination is common

Thanks for letting me know. Learn something new every day.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/...-mainland-chinese-dont-mind-public-urination/

Interestingly, a lot of the hits when looking it up point out the difference between the "mainland" and Hong Kong perspective on this topic. I wonder if they have similar signs in Hong Kong

 

[rushtest4echo]

The reason DL got a new track was that on a pre operation check the track was found to have broken because of metal fatigue overnight due apparently to a singularly kind $DEITY imagine if the track had broken during operation...

Take it from someone who was there, that's not what happened- but close.

Yes, there were stress cracks all over the ride, but it was really a de-rail caused by a mega bad weld job which buckled under the load of the train as it passed by. I'm not saying there wouldn't have been something similar to what you're describing at some point, but in that specific case- the rail failed due to some terrible welding that had occurred the week before.

 

[ford91exploder]

Uh.

This is an extremely serious allegation. If this is true, I mean, the repercussions are staggering. Something needs to be done right now. Something more then writing letters to office assistants. Guest relations needs to be flooded. News outlets called. And most of all, we all need to stop riding Space Mountain. Yesterday.

If this is a load of BS, then I think you should probably be banned from this website. No in-between in my eyes.

I have no proof and outside of Disney no one does.

There is something in FL which makes managers more qualified than engineers to make safety decisions I.e. The shuttle disasters where management told engineering they did not know what they were talking about - Well history tells us who was correct in those instances, Let's hope the same does not apply at WDW SM

The simple fact is any metal subject to flexing can only flex so many times before it fractures (cracks) flexing modifies the the crystalline structure of the metal that's why some cracks are small and others the metal opens up like a zipper (see southwest flights 812,2294 on Boeing 737-300's) for an example

recall that immediately after DL's emergency track replacement WDW's was scheduled for a complete gut and replace. If you are there when work lights are on you can still see the markups for the demolition and there are pictures on this site showing these markings.

Phil and Meg nixed this plan so the working assumption is that only the worst bits were fixed

As to the presence of the welders those trailers with the blue covers with the stylized M and 'Miller' are welders just walk by the SM building. FYI the machines are Welders the guys who do the welding are Weldors

Is SM safe? At least in the opinion of Disneys structural engineers it is, Woukd I ride it no, Would I ride DL's yes i would.

 

[ford91exploder]

Take it from someone who was there, that's not what happened- but close.

Yes, there were stress cracks all over the ride, but it was really a de-rail caused by a mega bad weld job which buckled under the load of the train as it passed by. I'm not saying there wouldn't have been something similar to what you're describing at some point, but in that specific case- the rail failed due to some terrible welding that had occurred the week before.

The fact was the rail failed,

What makes it worse in my eyes at least
Is that type of welding is 'code' welding which is generally performed by certified weldors and inspected by x-ray or ultrasound after completion to ensure the weld is safe and no embrittlement or subsurface cracking has occurred

The fact that a half baked welding repair was the proximate cause speaks volumes about the management practices and safety culture or the lack thereof.

 

[rushtest4echo]

Uh.

This is an extremely serious allegation. If this is true, I mean, the repercussions are staggering. Something needs to be done right now. Something more then writing letters to office assistants. Guest relations needs to be flooded. News outlets called. And most of all, we all need to stop riding Space Mountain. Yesterday.

If this is a load of BS, then I think you should probably be banned from this website. No in-between in my eyes.

He's over dramatizing it. However, he's not really wrong in regards to Space Mtn- it's just that maybe he doesn't comprehend how standard these practices are. Coasters run every single day with stress cracks galore, all over the train, the track and the supports. It's just part of the nature of metal fatigue. It's never caught the second it develops. NDT's using radar are done every so often and when they discover a major issue, it's fixed. It's a very common deal around the industry. What he's describing is present on all roller coasters on earth that have been around for more than a decade. All of the BTMRR's have had either the rails or the entire trackwork replaced in the last decade for these reasons (and trackwork is not what caused Disneyland's BTMRR accident). Rock'n Rollercoaster will need a total rebuild soon enough, as will California Screamin. Indiana Jones and Space Mtn at DLP have both received track replacements as well recently.

Go look at a Six Flags or a Cedar Fair park with an old Arrow Mine Train (closest comparable ride in terms of age and track style)- they've all been jerry rigged to run well past their shelf life. Some parks have replaced sections of track, others have continued to weld problem areas.

I don't typically doubt Disney's safety standards (honestly it's part of my industry to question their standards and I'm usually satisfied). With Space Mountain, they've bought it a few years of additional time until the ride really does need to be torn down and rebuilt. Right now, WDW's Space Mountain is in better condition than Disneyland's Space Mountain before that thing was shut down. That was more related to axle fatigue and brakes being overmatched by heavy trains through- neither of those are an issue in Florida's version. DIsneyland's Space Mtn's track wasn't in horrid shape when it was shut down- but everyone knew it was having problems (not track related) and the bad weld coupled with a de-rail finally caused them to throw in the towel. As far as the track is concerned, WDW's Space Mountain is cared for extremely well, it's just that you can't repair some things once they've failed. Some people are concerned that a failure is going to occur which will result in injuries. I can't say with confidence that there won't be some sort of failure, because all rides that old have an elevated risk. But their insurers certainly bring in outside inspectors to test and verify that the ride is structurally sound.

The track as a whole is far beyond its shelf life. But again, that's very common around Disney and the rest of the industry. What WDW has done to mitigate the issues is they've tested and replaced any structurally deficient sections of track over the last few rehabs. The ride is a Frankenstein's monster of new/old/worn/replaced/rewelded track and support pieces. Again, very common for a ride of that age.

The reason Hulk at IOA was replaced was because the weekly stress cracks in the track ties were too abundant to simply re-weld over and over. But that problem existed on Hulk for many years before they finally bit the bullet and overhauled it. Same goes for Dueling Dragons to a lesser extent, which is why Dragons likely won't make it through this Fall. Kumba and Montu at Busch Gardens will be nearing the end of their life soon too which is a real shame given Sea Worlds lack of ability to pay for their replacements. If you're wondering why Hulk got older so much faster than a ride like Kumba- Hulk cycles 500 trains a day on average compared to Kumba which averages less than 180. The track wears 3X as fast.

 

[rushtest4echo]

The fact was the rail failed,

What makes it worse in my eyes at least
Is that type of welding is 'code' welding which is generally performed by certified weldors and inspected by x-ray or ultrasound after completion to ensure the weld is safe and no embrittlement or subsurface cracking has occurred

The fact that a half baked welding repair was the proximate cause speaks volumes about the management practices and safety culture or the lack thereof.

All true, all blunders on their part. All a product of lax maintenance standards for sure. I'm glad the majority of Disneyland's arrogant procedures were buttoned up a long time ago now. WDW doesn't have those same issues though, and it's certainly NOT what's happening on Space Mtn. It's being babied along and very closely monitored/repaired.

 

[jakeman]

I have no proof

Have you considered making this your signature?

With all due respect, @xdan0920 is right. You're leveling allegations of maintenance neglect that will result in a loss of life. If you truly believe this is the case, even if you only have anecdotal evidence to support it, then you have an obligation to report it. If this is just the next level of your performance art about how "Disney is terrible", it's a fairly morbid turn, even for you.

 

[Rodan75]

Thought this thread was a good place to put this in. A new effort to encourage...good guest behavior has started over at Shanghai Disneyland using the zootopia characters to bring the message home! And boy are some of these posters gold.

last and my personal favorite

I am stunned that it has come to that.

 

[rushtest4echo]

Have you considered making this your signature?

With all due respect, @xdan0920 is right. You're leveling allegations of maintenance neglect that will result in a loss of life. If you truly believe this is the case, even if you only have anecdotal evidence to support it, then you have an obligation to report it. If this is just the next level of your performance art about how "Disney is terrible", it's a fairly morbid turn, even for you.

Now the response to his dramatization is being met with even more dramatization.

Facts:
- Space Mountain is a 40 year old roller coaster running on 50 year old technology.
- Space Mountain has needed a complete track replacement for better than 15 years, but has been selectively babied along to avoid shutting down the resort's most popular ride (according to feedback) for 24+ months. Mitigation measures including trims, welding, rail replacement, and frequent inspections are being utilized to avoid the shut down, but it will eventually need a total overhaul.
- There is no need to worry about some catastrophic failure. What they do in repairs is the same sort of stuff that airliners go through during routine maintenance.
- Anyone who claims that they don't ride Space Mtn due to some perceived imenent failure doesn't understand the risks involved or is jinning up hysteria. In either case, don't take them seriously because they either don't care to know how the industry maintains older rides or they're willfully ignorant.
- If a catastrophic failure occurs, it will probably be a result of the stone aged RCS and not a track failure.
- In the event of a catastrophic failure, Disney will have to answer why it took them so long to re-do the entire ride since it's common knowledge in the industry that a ride of that age needs an overhaul regardless of its current status safety wise.

The ride has operated in this condition (more or less) for over 15 years, and in that time over 100 million riders (yes, I mean that) have ridden the ride without any catastrophic failure. Enough with the hysteria. This is worse than the idiots who refuse to fly after an airliner crashes (despite billions riding without incident before and after).

 

[JoeCamel]

I am stunned that it has come to that.

I am stunned (not really) that TWDC moved into a space without fully understanding the culture they were entering. Those signs should have been up before open. There were plenty of pictures of "guests" allowing kids to use the bushes as a toilet before the opening.

How clueless can management be?

 

[brb1006]

Thought this thread was a good place to put this in. A new effort to encourage...good guest behavior has started over at Shanghai Disneyland using the zootopia characters to bring the message home! And boy are some of these posters gold.

last and my personal favorite

Perfect idea

 

[brb1006]

It's sad that they have to treat the guests like they are small children.

Welcome to Mainland China