A Spirited Valentine ...

[brb1006]

Those 'public service announcement' Shanghai Reaort banners are......surprising.


The last one in particular....
Cringe inducing.



-

Talk about culture shock

 

[brb1006]

Is it the Chinese culture?

That's the answer

 

[Rodan75]

I am stunned (not really) that TWDC moved into a space without fully understanding the culture they were entering. Those signs should have been up before open. There were plenty of pictures of "guests" allowing kids to use the bushes as a toilet before the opening.

How clueless can management be?

Good point, 'Hope is not a method'. I can see where the initial feeling would have been 'That isn't how we treat people', but at some point reality has to set in. And to be honest, at some point some level of crowd education/re-education needs to come to the domestic parks/cruise ships.

The legend that Disney CM's will treat you like royalty has become so pervasive that folks forget any common decency at Disney.

 

[brb1006]

Chinese culture.. look it up. Public urination is common

There were even photos of guests doing that and taking a dump on flower beds during a preview of the park months before it officially opened.

 

[jakeman]

Now the response to his dramatization is being met with even more dramatization.

Facts:
- Space Mountain is a 40 year old roller coaster running on 50 year old technology.
- Space Mountain has needed a complete track replacement for better than 15 years, but has been selectively babied along to avoid shutting down the resort's most popular ride (according to feedback) for 24+ months. Mitigation measures including trims, welding, rail replacement, and frequent inspections are being utilized to avoid the shut down, but it will eventually need a total overhaul.
- There is no need to worry about some catastrophic failure. What they do in repairs is the same sort of stuff that airliners go through during routine maintenance.
- Anyone who claims that they don't ride Space Mtn due to some perceived imenent failure doesn't understand the risks involved or is jinning up hysteria. In either case, don't take them seriously because they either don't care to know how the industry maintains older rides or they're willfully ignorant.
- If a catastrophic failure occurs, it will probably be a result of the stone aged RCS and not a track failure.
- In the event of a catastrophic failure, Disney will have to answer why it took them so long to re-do the entire ride since it's common knowledge in the industry that a ride of that age needs an overhaul regardless of its current status safety wise.

The ride has operated in this condition (more or less) for over 15 years, and in that time over 100 million riders (yes, I mean that) have ridden the ride without any catastrophic failure. Enough with the hysteria. This is worse than the idiots who refuse to fly after an airliner crashes (despite billions riding without incident before and after).

Maybe it's just me, but I think folks maybe shouldn't level criminal accusations (of which maintenance neglect to the point of personal endangerment seems to fit) at a party without being prepared to follow through.

If that's dramatic, then I guess that's a fault I'll live with.

 

[brb1006]

Thanks for letting me know. Learn something new every day.

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/...-mainland-chinese-dont-mind-public-urination/

Interestingly, a lot of the hits when looking it up point out the difference between the "mainland" and Hong Kong perspective on this topic. I wonder if they have similar signs in Hong Kong

Hong Kong is different compared to mainland China when it comes to stuff like that. At least Hong Kong Disneyland guests don't do stuff like that on property.

 

[brb1006]

I am stunned (not really) that TWDC moved into a space without fully understanding the culture they were entering. Those signs should have been up before open. There were plenty of pictures of "guests" allowing kids to use the bushes as a toilet before the opening.

How clueless can management be?

Give it a few decades

 

[DDLand]

I am stunned (not really) that TWDC moved into a space without fully understanding the culture they were entering. Those signs should have been up before open. There were plenty of pictures of "guests" allowing kids to use the bushes as a toilet before the opening.

How clueless can management be?

Ironically for all the grief Shanghai Disney gets, I'm pretty sure I've seen and or heard stories about individuals doing all those things at Walt Disney World.

Maybe we need some of those some signs too.

 

[JoeCamel]

Give it a few decades

If it lasts that long. I doubt this park was "built for the ages" considering how much work had to be torn out and done over.

 

[ford91exploder]

The answer to the inevitable defense of Disney.

In CA the state stepped in to ensure Disney enforced modern safety practices after two people died because of poor maintenance.

This has not occurred in FL yet. And hopefully nothing bad happens the swamps but in engineering hope is not a strategy.

Personally I'd feel better if the state inspected WDW's rides as an extra unbiased set of eyes often reveals things.


in the meantime ask a engineer who has coaster experience why did Disney install trim brakes on a coaster which never needed them before....

 

[xdan0920]

The answer to the inevitable defense of Disney.

In CA the state stepped in to ensure Disney enforced modern safety practices after two people died because of poor maintenance.

This has not occurred in FL yet. And hopefully nothing bad happens the swamps but in engineering hope is not a strategy.

Personally I'd feel better if the state inspected WDW's rides as an extra unbiased set of eyes often reveals things.


in the meantime ask a engineer who has coaster experience why did Disney install trim brakes on a coaster which never needed them before....

Here's the thing. Let's assume you know what you're talking about and carry this to it's logical conclusion.

Someone. maybe multiple someones, are going to die. Because, TDO is actively putting guests lives in mortal danger. That's a very very very big deal. That information should not be relegated to page 33 of 74's blog. You have a responsibility to get this information out there. Beyond this blog.

 

[jakeman]

The answer to the inevitable defense of Disney.

In CA the state stepped in to ensure Disney enforced modern safety practices after two people died because of poor maintenance.

This has not occurred in FL yet. And hopefully nothing bad happens the swamps but in engineering hope is not a strategy.

Personally I'd feel better if the state inspected WDW's rides as an extra unbiased set of eyes often reveals things.


in the meantime ask a engineer who has coaster experience why did Disney install trim brakes on a coaster which never needed them before....

How in the world is "If you think Disney is putting people in danger, you should say something to an institution with authority to affect change" a defense of Disney?

 

[aprincessatlasst]

Ironically for all the grief Shanghai Disney gets, I'm pretty sure I've seen and or heard stories about individuals doing all those things at Walt Disney World.

Maybe we need some of those some signs too.

I thought the same. This past summer as we were coming off space mountains moving sidewalk my kids barely avoided the crap while i stepped in it. So gross! It was an obvious prank thought as someone had left a trail of it heading to the bathroom with strategic fortune cookie papers left in them. We alerted a cast member who was taken back from it. Felt bad for them to clean it up. Yuck!! In talking with someone in line for another ride later that day they said it was a buzz feed prank. Sad thing though is in China I don't think it is a rarity nor a prank.

 

[truecoat]

A French DLP fan site published this interesting lawsuit against Disneyland Paris: https://androland.com/sa-vie-est-un-calvaire-depuis-son-passage-dans-le-space-mountain.html

Basically, the lady claim that since a ride on Space Mountain in 2013, her head hitting the restraint caused internal ear damage and caused her to lose her equilibrium. This is what is she claims to suffer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal_de_debarquement , although I haven't seen cases online where a short 2 minutes roller coaster ride was enough to cause it. Lawsuits usually happen in the States, but I though this was unusual since it happened in France.

 

[DDLand]

If it lasts that long. I doubt this park was "built for the ages" considering how much work had to be torn out and done over.

Shanghai Disneyland is a very different park from any other, and could definitely turn off Classic Disneyland fans. It's a park for the 21st Century.

That's a stylistic choice.

Its quality on the other hand is impeccable. It really is a great and highly detailed place. There are certain operational concerns that are still being addressed, but on a whole the teams behind it ensured that it would have an excellent long term footing.

With a roster that would make most parks envious, it truly is impressive. The park should live to a nice old age.

 

[rushtest4echo]

The answer to the inevitable defense of Disney.

In CA the state stepped in to ensure Disney enforced modern safety practices after two people died because of poor maintenance.

This has not occurred in FL yet. And hopefully nothing bad happens the swamps but in engineering hope is not a strategy.

Personally I'd feel better if the state inspected WDW's rides as an extra unbiased set of eyes often reveals things.

CalOSHA is clueless as to how to properly maintain or institute procedures for ANYTHING at a theme park. Their ridiculous "fall protection" mandates literally gutted Disney's ability to address maintenance and upkeep in a safe, logical manner. What they've done has resulted in far worse operating and maintenance procedures. There a loads of things at Disney that I notice could/should be done with safer/redundant procedures, but the majority of those things is something OSHA would never notice any/or correct.

I can assume you're addressing the Thunder Mountain and Mark Twain incidents, both of which I have extensive (not public) knowledge of. Without incriminating and/or revealing my position, I'll just state that both of these accidents occurred as a result of poor PROCEDURE, not maintenance. Both were failures that could and should have been avoided had proper TRAINING and PROCEDURE been followed. Thunder Mtn's part failure had nothing to do with improper maintenance, tongues and axles have failed on plenty of rides in spectacular fashion all around the industry on countless rides. Often, it's not even reported despite the real risks/dangers of such a failure. However, the entire situation could and would have been avoided had the train been pulled and inspected which would have happened if the cast members followed proper procedures. Mark Twain's accident was a freak occurance that arose from a lack of training (and the arrogance of a manager who was not certified to be there). Has nothing to do with maintenance. The procedures in both of these cases have been strengthened, though they weren't dangerous to start except for the fact that the proper procedures were ignored when the accidents happened.

Florida, California, or any other state does not have the individuals qualified to properly inspect or certify safe operation of theme parks. The regulatory structure and professionals needed in order to create a real form of oversight for the amusement industry is non-existent. You have fools like Ed Markey who propose state and federal legislation that has zero effect on the safe operation of the amusement industry. IAAPA, TUV and AECOM do an admirable job establishing operating procedures that (for the most part) ensure the safe operation of parks. All of the major theme park chains on earth have a relationship with them in some form or fashion. But none of those are government related (thank God).

I make it my business to understand this exact thing because it quite literally is my business.

in the meantime ask a engineer who has coaster experience why did Disney install trim brakes on a coaster which never needed them before....

I've done so on many occasions over the past several decades. 90% of the time they reply that it's to reduce fatigue on the chassis and track. The other 10% of the time it's to deal with other variables like vehicle speed or sensor timing. Mind you this is for installations of trim brakes on older rides. For new rides, trims are used for the above mentioned, but also for a myriad of other reasons.

Nobody as ever installed trim brakes to literally keep a ride from falling apart though. And if they have, they really would deserve to be prosecuted when and if that ride has a failure relating to such a practice. But I can assure you that Disney would never come close to considering doing something like that. To infer such a thing is ridiculous. There's a MASSIVE difference between using a trim to limit wear and tear on a ride vs. using a trim to prevent structural failure.

 

[ChrisFL]

I don't ride WDW's space mountain anymore...not necessarily because of inevitable failure but because it beats the crap out of me these days.

 

[rushtest4echo]

I don't ride WDW's space mountain anymore...not necessarily because of inevitable failure but because it beats the crap out of me these days.

Agreed... Same with Matterhorn.

Though I don't care for Disneyland's Thunder Mountain for the exact opposite reason. The track replacement literally made that "runaway minetrain" smooth as glass. Nobody seems to agree with me, but I really feel like it's the worst BTMRR despite the 3rd lift effects because the rest of the ride feels more tame than a Vekoma Rollar Skater.

 

[brb1006]

Shanghai Disneyland is a very different park from any other, and could definitely turn off Classic Disneyland fans. It's a park for the 21st Century.

That's a stylistic choice.

Its quality on the other hand is impeccable. It really is a great and highly detailed place. There are certain operational concerns that are still being addressed, but on a whole the teams behind it ensured that it would have an excellent long term footing.

With a roster that would make most parks envious, it truly is impressive. The park should live to a nice old age.

Now I'm curious for what there future electrical parade would be?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Its quality on the other hand is impeccable. It really is a great and highly detailed place. There are certain operational concerns that are still being addressed, but on a whole the teams behind it ensured that it would have an excellent long term footing.

The park is filled with poor finish choices that have barely held up. While the materials can be replaced to something more resilient, it really should not have been the case.