GoofGoof
Premium Member
At minimum wage it may be cheaper than building an AA and maintaining it
They could also use screens and/or projections.
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A Spirited Valentine ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
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They could also use screens and/or projections.
WDWTank
Well-Known Member
I feel it's about time to finally raise CM wages years after EisnerAt minimum wage it may be cheaper than building an AA and maintaining it
Mike S
Well-Known Member
I'm proof of this. When I think Pandora I think lush natural jungle with amazing bioluminescence giving all the light you need at night. What we got were wide open walkways, dim glow plants, human made light poles, and staircases built into the rocks. It feels entirely manmade when it's supposed to be the furthest thing from it. It still is nice though.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
They kind of missed the mark on that though.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
It's still a theme park. They need lights and safe stairs and wide walkways for the crowds. I hate to do it, but diagon alley in the movies is more narrow than the theme park version but it still works for me. Sometimes they need to be practical over artistic.
Opinions on the success of Avland aside, my point is there is no focus on human structures in Pandora. The main restaurant is very minimal and blends into the land. The rides are both essentially hidden in the rocks. The floating mountains are the star of the land. With Star Wars the human structures will be much more of the focus. It looks like they will have the appearance of multiple buildings, and obviously the Falcon. I don't think it will feel like a land where the focus is a rock facade.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Nice turn of phrase wrt Whole Foods
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
No way...shocking
6 to 8 attractions is a full park these days
Seriously though. It wasn't really chopped down from 3 to 2. It's been 2 rides for a long while now, since before ground broke. Maybe in some blue sky work up there was a 3rd ride, but it's not like the land was designed and the plans changed during construction. If we lost our minds over every idea WDI came up with that ended up not built we'd pretty much always be disappointed
I'm OK with 2 rides although I think the crowds will be huge and difficult for a while after opening. I think they could have probably used a 3rd attraction that was either a walk through or something minor like a SW based peoplemover to eat up some of the crowds but I'd rather have the 2 E tickets and not have the lesser ride. 6 to 8 attractions would have been overkill. It's not a Star Wars park just a land within the park. Even Harry Potter at Universal is only 3 new rides plus 2 repurposed ones and that's in 2 separate parks and done in 2 phases. I'm sure I'm in the minority but I'm glad they decided on doing both SW Land and Toy Story Land instead of just 1 larger SW Land with 2 additional C ticket rides. I'm glad they didn't throw in a spinner or low end ride to SW Land. Keep it high end.
One thing I think they could have done if they wanted more SW in DHS is take out the Muppet Courtyard area and connect SW Land with Star Tours. You would then have 3 actual e-tickets within the land plus they could redo the muppet theater into a SW based 3D movie or updated Jedi Training Academy and re-theme the restaurants. It wouldn't cost much to redo the outside of the buildings and would make the land bigger plus you save Star Tours which seems to be on the chopping block once SW Land opens. Then add Muppets in animation courtyard area with a real E-ticket dark ride and a restaurant/shop.
Hey, I've never questioned the fact that SWL is coming to Disney my issue is and has been the timeline for its opening
peter11435
Well-Known Member
Alternative facts
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Don't make me go back and pull up quotes from 2 or 3 years ago
You said you thought all the closures at DHS were just cost cutting and all that was going to be added were flat rides and a 3rd track for TSMM. I think you also predicted Force Awakens could bomb at the box office and that would force them to cancel Star Wars Land
Kman101
Well-Known Member
LOL
That's really all I have. You're certainly entitled to your opinion but the land will be great. Sorry you and Ford seem so adamant it won't be. Why do you want it to fail?
BlindChow
Well-Known Member
Oh, so this is why Toy Story Land had half its attractions cut? And all the other budget cutbacks we've seen over the last 20 years? It's all because of stock buybacks, then? No other reason?
I guess you have a point. It's not like we ever saw Disney cut budgets and produce underwhelming attractions or even entire parks (say, DCA or WDSP...) before Iger and his buybacks right??
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Toy Story Land had more attractions planned?Oh, so this is why Toy Story Land had half its attractions cut? And all the other budget cutbacks we've seen over the last 20 years? It's all because of stock buybacks, then? No other reason?
I guess you have a point. It's not like we ever saw Disney cut budgets and produce underwhelming attractions or even entire parks (say, DCA or WDSP...) before Iger and his buybacks right??
Keep in mind, according to @ParentsOf4 post TWDC spent $55B on stock buybacks. If they didn't spend that money on stock buybacks they would not have invested all of it in the P&R division. They could have spent on Studios or TV or even on strategic acquisitions of complimentary companies. Even the portion of the money spent on P&R would have been spread amongst the existing parks and potentially towards building whole new parks. WDW wouldn't have gotten an extra $50B of investment. It's not necessarily that Disney cut existing budgets to buy stock back, more like they allocated less total free cash flows to capex and as a result had less money budgeted in the first place. This did lead to projects being delayed or more spread out over time.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Diagon isn't as glaring due to the fact that I think it uses forced perspective to make the street appear narrower than it is. Plus when it's packed with people that alone makes it feel authentic.
Pandora goes from this,
To this,
Again, it's well done but a far cry from what it's trying to replicate. The plants in the movie were so bright they didn't need any other light source to see at night. I'm sure it could've been done. Instead of stairs on the outside parts that aren't near human structures they could've had discreet ramps.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Don't make me go back and pull up quotes from 2 or 3 years ago
Yes I did say that the closures at DHS were cost cutting and they WERE cost cutting because nothing was done for 12-18 months after the attractions closed during that period not a spoonful of dirt was moved.
Yep I also said TFA COULD bomb at the box office, No I still have not seen it and have no intention of seeing it. And it was the trailer which put me off when BB-8 went speeding past the camera I said to myself this movie is about selling toys not entertainment and I wrote off the SW series at that point. Obviously the moviegoing public disagrees with me..
If TFA HAD bombed the pressure from Wall Street would have been IMMENSE to deep six all plans for a Star Wars related theme park attraction.
You can forecast what I'll say about any investment TWDC chooses to make if you follow the following formula
as of right now Wall Street is Disney's customer, Not the Guest so any choice Disney makes will be to please Wall St if there is choice to be made between Wall Street and Guests, The choice will be in favor of Wall Street. Why else has the culture of 'cut to the bone' and we must run rides to failure taken hold at WDW/DL?, or the 'Hospital Room' decor which is the go forward design in the 'Deluxe' hotels as seen in the YC refurb.
Also note when I said flat rides and 3rd track for TSMM at the time SWL had NOT been officially greenlit for DHS, Rumored by the reliable insiders yes officially announced by Disney no.
Tell me minus SWL what is DHS getting why yes Flat Rides (TSL) and a 3rd track for TSMM, There is NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for DHS not having the flat rides online within a year of closing the attractions those are commercial off the shelf rides which have been duplicated a couple of times already.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Disney used to invest huge amounts of profit back into its theme parks before Iger's tenure, even when projects were being downscaled or "cut". Perhaps my biggest Disney-related pet peeve is certain bloggers who complained about Disney theme park "cuts" in the 1990s, not appreciating the vast amounts being spent.Oh, so this is why Toy Story Land had half its attractions cut? And all the other budget cutbacks we've seen over the last 20 years? It's all because of stock buybacks, then? No other reason?
I guess you have a point. It's not like we ever saw Disney cut budgets and produce underwhelming attractions or even entire parks (say, DCA or WDSP...) before Iger and his buybacks right??
The easiest way to illustrate what's happened under Bob Iger is to compare Disney's investment (i.e. growth capex) in its U.S. Parks & Resorts segment as a percentage of company-wide operating income:
With Disney's stock repurchases as a percentage of company-wide operating income:
Iger's "investment" strategy is a textbook example of Profits Without Prosperity.
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Bocabear
Well-Known Member
I certainly don't want it to fail...I would just like it to exceed expectations the way Disney used to... But lately their track record isn't so great... Pandora is a mixed bag and while the FOP is quite good, the rest of the experience falls a little short. Glow paint splattered on the sidewalk is not the light reactive walkways they hyped during construction...it glow paint splattered on the concrete... The night time Pandora is extremely dark...and while there are some very lovely things, the area comes up short.
Again after revisiting the concept art for SWL it appears to have all the charm of an industrial strip mining complex...and looks to rely very heavily on costumed characters...If you remove them from the art, the resulting locations (aside from the rockwork) look kind of ho hum..
I am hoping they blow me away, but from what I am seeing... meh.
Again after revisiting the concept art for SWL it appears to have all the charm of an industrial strip mining complex...and looks to rely very heavily on costumed characters...If you remove them from the art, the resulting locations (aside from the rockwork) look kind of ho hum..
I am hoping they blow me away, but from what I am seeing... meh.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The industrial look is on par with several different locations in the SW Universe. It looks like a Star Wars spaceport to me. It's really hard to judge from a few pieces of concept art how detailed the buildings and landscape will be.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The sets of the original trilogy are themselves rather ho hum. As iconic as its worlds are, the places of the Star Wars universe are rather nondescript. It’s a huge challenge the land faces and one that can be better avoided with a new location.
