A Spirited Valentine ...

[jakeman]

Am I off base thinking Disney is over building? You've got the additions to CSR and CBR, plus the potential for four more? Do Bob and Bob really think they can maintain occupancy at 4-6 more hotels to make them at least marginally profitable? Or is everything going to be DVC, so they'll get it at the front end....

Depends of who you believe I guess.

On one hand, there is the prevailing theory that attendance is now on it's downward spiral that has been anticipated for close to two decades and has only been covered up by up charges and manipulation of the hotel occupancy rates. If that's the case then, yeah they are definitely over building.

Or the occupancy rates are somewhat accurate, there's still a demand for DVC, and there are several major additions coming on line in the next 3-5 years. If this is more accurate, then we here probably don't have enough data to say.

It will be interesting times over the next 5 years, regardless.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Perceived competition.

They certainly realize UNI is going to drag them into a pricing war, right?

 

[ford91exploder]

If they want me to pay $250 for Pop, then (1) they'd better put coffee makers in the rooms and (2) they'd better find something more acceptable than that curtain to separate the vanity area from the beds. But, like you, I'll just use my DVC points.

The Bobs had better hope the economy doesn't take a nosedive, given their ticket and hotel prices. Because APs, especially locals (I'm defining locals as any FL resident within a 4-5 hour drive), will be the ones helping to keep the lights on. Again. Maybe.

Does Disney really need more room capacity? Better stated, does Disney need more timeshares? At the expense of cash rooms? Can one infer WDW is quickly becoming a conglomeration of hotels with some rides in the vicinity? Does corporate really believe this is a rational growth model? That people clamor to visit WDW because they want to stay in a $200/night Hampton Inn (without the free breakfast)?

Gondolas.....

Yes, yes I believe that The Bobs and corporate really do believe that.

The ads in the northeast "is there anything more magical than staying at a Disney hotel". View of GF lobby greeting by a random princess and cuts to ride shots.

Those ads say more about what corporate thinks than they would like to admit

 

[ford91exploder]

They certainly realize UNI is going to drag them into a pricing war, right?

All UNI needs to do its to hold the line on prices using their current model which is a modest premium over similar room classes in Orlando

 

[marni1971]

So, new tower at Swan & Dolphin?

That as well if Tishman/Westin want it.

 

[Lets Respect]

Raising hotel rates...Hmm

The only way I see this being successful for them is by linking ride access even more tightly to staying onsite. Right now we have the 60 day window which works well at shutting offsite out a bit

Perhaps they tighten the screws even more, especially for the new lands and rides. Where you're essentially not experiencing them unless you're onsite

 

[LAKid53]

Yes, yes I believe that The Bobs and corporate really do believe that.

The ads in the northeast "is there anything more magical than staying at a Disney hotel". View of GF lobby greeting by a random princess and cuts to ride shots.

Those ads say more about what corporate thinks than they would like to admit

That ad is also shown in Florida. So those visiting Disney the first time must be really disappointed when they find out AS Music doesn't look anything like the hotel in the ad.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

All UNI needs to do its to hold the line on prices using their current model which is a modest premium over similar room classes in Orlando

But these new rooms and DVC are being built with the idea they can continue to charge high prices. If the floor falls out because people find UNI to be a better deal with a superior product, even if it means paying extra for Uber/Lyft to go to WDW, they'll do it and Disney will be screwed.

 

[LAKid53]

Raising hotel rates...Hmm

The only way I see this being successful for them is by linking ride access even more tightly to staying onsite. Right now we have the 60 day window which works well at shutting offsite out a bit

Perhaps they tighten the screws even more, especially for the new lands and rides. Where you're essentially not experiencing them unless you're onsite

Then why bother. Why bother having a theme park if you're basically going to make it difficult for visitors not staying on property to ride the attractions. Can you imagine Uni doing this?

 

[marni1971]

Raising hotel rates...Hmm

The only way I see this being successful for them is by linking ride access even more tightly to staying onsite. Right now we have the 60 day window which works well at shutting offsite out a bit

Perhaps they tighten the screws even more, especially for the new lands and rides. Where you're essentially not experiencing them unless you're onsite

Funding is purely based on resort room rates rising. No plans to penalise off site guests with this.

 

[Lets Respect]

Then why bother. Why bother having a theme park if you're basically going to make it difficult for visitors not staying on property to ride the attractions. Can you imagine Uni doing this?

They are already doing it with the 60 day window.

 

[Lets Respect]

Funding is purely based on resort room rates rising. No plans to penalise off site guests.

Ok. But they already penalize offsite guests, I don't see that changing.

 

[marni1971]

Ok. But they already penalize offsite guests, I don't see that changing.

Let me amend my reply.

 

[jpeden]

All UNI needs to do its to hold the line on prices using their current model which is a modest premium over similar room classes in Orlando

If Universal wanted to really put a dent in Disney's pocket, they'd freeze prices or even reduce them on tickets, and reduce room rates just small amount for a single summer season. Even if it's just by a small amount, I think the perceived value would be huge. The issue is they seem to want to follow Disney in their pricing structure.

 

[SorcererMC]

But these new rooms DVC are being built with the idea they can continue to charge high prices. If the floor falls out because people find UNI to be a better deal with a superior product, even if it means paying extra for Uber/Lyft to go to WDW, they'll do it and Disney will be screwed.

If UNI tries to undercut Disney prices, Disney will not respond by lowering their prices. Disney will emphasize product differentiation/ higher quality, justifying their prices. (To a certain extent they do this already, eg by advertising GF as previously mentioned).

 

[jpeden]

If UNI tries to undercut Disney prices, Disney will not respond by lowering their prices. Disney will emphasize product differentiation/ higher quality, justifying their prices. (To a certain extent they do this already, eg by advertising GF as previously mentioned).

I can see Disney going there. But anyone with half a brain has to know the deluxe Universal hotels, which are run by a luxury hotiler, are actually nicer than anything Disney has, correct? I mean, I love Disney but often have considered staying at Universal just for the hotels.

 

[wdisney9000]

The ads in the northeast "is there anything more magical than staying at a Disney hotel". View of GF lobby greeting by a random princess and cuts to ride shots.

Those ads say more about what corporate thinks than they would like to admit

They love creating unrealistic expectations. I was speaking with my father yesterday and he mentioned that commercial and said, "when the hell does a princess character ever hang out in the lobby and does Disney really think people believe that". He also mentioned how they used the GF lobby as if every Disney resort looks like that.

My favorite is still the "More Magical" commercial. The family is checking in. They are wearing magic bands so obviously they were sent to them, yet they have made no FP+ selections or especially highly sought after ADR's such as CRT, yet the CM gets them a reservation right away. And the moms request to "take a break by the pool" is hilarious. As if you need a reservation to do that. I cant find it on youtube, so here is a link: https://ispot.tv/a/AYKD for anybody that wants to watch it and have a good laugh at the unrealistic expectations they set.

 

[SorcererMC]

I can see Disney going there. But anyone with half a brain has to know the deluxe Universal hotels, which are run by a luxury hotiler, are actually nicer than anything Disney has, correct? I mean, I love Disney but often have considered staying at Universal just for the hotels.

Perceived quality vs. actual quality. Disney is using its marketing to create the perception of a higher quality product (hotels + theme parks); which could backfire, of course.

ETA: The emphasis on quality pre-empts a price war; see duopoly game theory.

 

[LAKid53]

But these new rooms DVC are being built with the idea they can continue to charge high prices. If the floor falls out because people find UNI to be a better deal with a superior product, even if it means paying extra for Uber/Lyft to go to WDW, they'll do it and Disney will be screwed.

I've stayed at three Uni resorts. Cabana Bay was okay, but both Royal Pacific and Portofino Bay are excellent resorts. Would have chosen the new Sapphire Falls, but they don't offer club level suites.

A bay view 450 Sq foot room during the first week of May at Portofino Bay is $256 a night. Average nightly room rate for a main building room at GF for the same time period with FL resident discount? $943. I've stayed in suites at both Disney and Universal. Disney will never match the three Loews resorts. Portofino Bay is Uni's top resort. Non-suite room rates start in the upper $200s.

If Disney really was worried about the competition, they would offer hotel rates competitive with that other park. As Spirit said, Poly could offer rooms for $99 a night and make a profit....

 

[Nemo14]

We are currently staying at a condo about 10 -15 minutes from WDW and have yet to set foot on Disney property this trip (we've been here since the first of the month). Most of the guests here pretty much feel the same way that we do - Disney has priced themselves out of our market and hasn't made any significant improvements there in a long time. However one lady we were talking to last night tried to tell us how Disney keeps adding new things every year so people want to go back again and again. She's never been there, but has seen the commercials.