A Spirited Summer Special (AKA Phil Holmes Takes Anaheim!)

[FerretAfros]

Let's not cry over Candy Corn Acres, which was the saddest, ugliest piece of garbage they'd pumped out in awhile. But yes, DCA is Halloween-free and has been for some time. I'd say they should bring back the delightful and genuinely creepy TOT atmo show, but it's Twilight Zone themed and that is a ship that has sailed.

HalloweenTime at DLR needs serious help, but them parties still sell out! There were not totally off the wall rumors of a version of Hocus Pocus from WDW going into Fantasyland Theater for the parties, but that seems to have not moved forward. That would have been amazing.

In a humorous twist of fate, the Candy Corn Acres decorations were designed knowing that the Sunshine Plaza wouldn't be long for this world, and that the décor would eventually get moved to the Bountiful Valley Farm area. Of course, the DCA redo turned out to be far bigger than anybody would have imagined in 2006, and the Farm area got decimated in the process (though bits of it are still hanging around)

Agree that DLR's Halloweentime needs help. Other than moving the upcharge parties to a park with more attractions (at a much higher price), there is noticeably less now than when it halfheartedly debuted a decade ago. DCA hardly participates any more despite being the focal point in the early years, and much of DL's offerings have been completely watered down through the years. HMH is growing tired and overstays its welcome on an annual basis, and seasonal entertainment is practically nonexistent

 

[bugsbunny]

Disney Springs is the physical real life equivalent of Sky Mall catalog. Everybody looking when they have nothing better to do, but nobody buys anything because you can get any of these items at 1/3 the price through Amazon. I'm heading to WDW next week and I have no desire to go to DS. For what? $11 ice cream cone? Sure I have curiosity to what they did to the place, but I'm not traveling 1000+ miles to visit an outdoor mall.

DHS will continue to be a shell of its former self until 2020. They should just make the admission half price to cover the half park it is now.

"....all the new timeshares they can build....". Boy can they build a lot of them. OVER saturation and I think that bird is coming home to roost given the cratering sales numbers. Meanwhile, the DVC maintenance percentage just keep climbing every year as well as how many points you can use and when you can use them. I remember I almost bought 240 points at Vero Beach in the early 2000's. Today, I would be paying about $1800 A YEAR just in maintenance fees! I can stay for a week at a hotel for less than that!! A lot of these DVC locations are going to be hitting the turn over cycle where the fees are going to steeply climb in order to gut and replenish everything inside. I think that is the next big cash grab by Disney as they start milking more money from DVC since new sales will not be the answer. Get ready!

 

[epcotWSC]

Disney Springs is the physical real life equivalent of Sky Mall catalog. Everybody looking when they have nothing better to do, but nobody buys anything because you can get any of these items at 1/3 the price through Amazon. I'm heading to WDW next week and I have no desire to go to DS. For what? $11 ice cream cone? Sure I have curiosity to what they did to the place, but I'm not traveling 1000+ miles to visit an outdoor mall.

It's true. Only thing worth doing in DS are the Disney stores and restaurants (whichever ones are good anyway). Anything else is a waste... but hey, I guess they think that people are going to spend money on high end merchandise in Disney when tons of outlet malls are not too far away.

 

[21stamps]

A two-year old story from the Sentinel that I recall reading that explains a bit about the fact that O-Town can't support high-end retail ... which really makes me wonder about that next housing bubble that's going to explode.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...-mall-20140721_1_florida-mall-millenia-outlet

http://www.mallatmillenia.com/directory

 

[FerretAfros]

Did anyone else notice that one resort put up walls, drained the Rivers of America, put dams in place, refilled the remaining river, took down the walls and then put up scrims and when they didn't block enough of construction, brought in trees in planters to hide the view... the other resort puts up a few walls and lets them sit for years. One is what you'd expect for an industry leader. The other is what you'd expect at Six Flags.

I agree that DLR did a nice job hiding the Star Wars construction, but that's more the exception than the rule. Let's not forget that they have a tendency to drain Paradise Bay at DCA for work and not place a single wall anywhere around the lagoon:

Guests were treated to this lovely view for about a year prior to the show's opening in 2010, and again for several months in spring 2015 in preparation for the Celebrate! show for the 60th (which is a lesson in Iger's overzealous meddling if there ever was one), with absolutely no attempt to conceal it from the guest walkways surrounding the lagoon or any of the adjacent outdoor attractions.

And if we want to talk about ugly 'temporary' additions that never seem to go away, take a look at DCA's backlot area, which has been littered with lighting rigs for the a-few-hours-a-week booze-fueled dance parties since June 2010. Disney used to be a master at hiding show infrastructure when it's not needed, but somehow this area has never had it done right. The unobtrusive light poles in MK's hub have nothing on the clutter back here

Yes, DLR tends to get more right than wrong, but let's not pretend like they're completely without fault. I know the WDW regulars like to make fun of the bushes-on-wheels that are used so often in those parks, but it generally seems to be that WDW does a better job of hiding work, even when it's just to set up a temporary overlay. Both resorts have plenty of flaws, and have instances where they could stand to learn from one another

 

[Bocabear]

It's true. Only thing worth doing in DS are the Disney stores and restaurants (whichever ones are good anyway). Anything else is a waste... but hey, I guess they think that people are going to spend money on high end merchandise in Disney when tons of outlet malls are not too far away.

People on vacation will spend money...if it is unique...Putting in the same stores that you can find in almost any city anywhere USA is where thewy are going to have a problem... People are at Disney Springs as part of their vacation experience, not to do the same shopping they can do at home...and for the locals, MIllennia is a nicer mall and is more complete...so...not sure what they were really thinking unless they fill it up with more unique stores, entertainment and dining...as it stands it isa lot of high end stores, expensive restaurants and less entertainment than they had 10 years ago...

 

[COProgressFan]

On the one hand, it is of course great to hear that someone higher up might at least entertain the notion of WDW's quality having hit the bottom of the barrel. Especially if they're actually trying to get it back up to snuff with how Disneyland handles things.

On the other hand, BURBANK ARE THE ONES WHO ORDERED WDW TO BE RUN INTO THE GROUND IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! While i'm sure Orlando management shoulders some responsibility, it sounds like Burbank ordered the lionshare of cuts at WDW for the past several years-
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...-resorts-thanks-to-shanghai-and-paris.909756/

Correct me if i'm wrong @WDW1974 or anyone else who has the scoop, but it sounds like Orlando are just following orders. While i'm on board with better training (perhaps it could help a little), if Burbank keeps the purse firmly closed and constantly barks orders to cut cut cut then how much could this really help? It seems very contradictory and ignorant from someone like Chappie. "Stop cleaning the parks and fixing rides, you're wasting money! Hey, why are your parks and rides in such horrid shape? Do you need lessons on how to clean and repair stuff?!" I almost suspect political shenanigans going on upstairs, setting lower level fall guys up so highers can avoid responsibility...

It's like an architect ordering his subordinates to use extremely poor materials and hire unqualified workers. Then being surprised and angry at your subordinates when it starts to have major issues and falls apart. Yelling at THEM for being too stupid and incompetent for using bad materials and workers...Hey isn't that exactly what happened with Shanghai Disneyland? Seeing a pattern of childish stupidity and blame shifting here...

So forgive me if I don't believe this will work with execs withholding budgets and continuing to order cuts. If someone has a better perspective of how much responsibility Orlando management really shares for the state of WDW (as opposed to Burbank), then please let me know. But from what i've heard from recent years, they really don't seem to have much of a say in matters anymore and are just following orders.

These were the exact thoughts I had. There's clearly something more to this, as you explain. Either setting up fall guys or some other reason we don't know. It's highly doubtful that suddenly they realize that WDW is a mess.

And not that I want to give him more credit than is due, but if Chapek was in consumer products for so long, the differences in the west coast vs. east coast operations may only be coming clear to him now that he is actually in charge of P&R. Before actually running this division, he likely took a quick glance at numbers from other divisions and thought everything was just swell.

We can only hope that he is smart enough to realize that improving the operation and product in WDW will pay off in the long term. But he's likely only going to be around for a couple more years until Iger leaves, so who knows if that's something he'd even be concerned with.

 

[SorcererMC]

Oh, there are a few coming. I hate stating the obvious, but reread the post I put out and read between the lines.

Ah, I see that in my haste I skipped a line, that more or less spells it out. I usually do re-read a couple of times.

I was thinking about this earlier and just putting it out there - beyond personnel shake-ups/ cleaning house, is it possible that this could lead to a (major) mgmt. reorg/ restructuring altogether? And/or when would that happen, under current leadership or next 'regime' if you will?
I don't know enough about TWDC to know.

Edit: Nevermind, found another one of those 'well-placed' articles on exactly this from a week ago.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

BTW, while this may irritate some fans- I wasn't super impressed with Ample Hills Creamery. It's perfectly valid if you like it. It's quality ice cream, but definitely not the best i've had and absolutely not worth the money. While the flavors are rather unique, the quality of the ice cream itself tasted comparable to Häagen-Dazs (not the grocery kind, the parlor). Haven't visited a Ben & Jerry's parlor since the late 90's (so don't quote me on it having held up in quality during the past 16+ years) but that was also comparable in quality when I had it.

The best ice cream i've had was in Chicago and France. Homemade is also fantastic (it's easy to make, a machine does all the work and just toss in whatever flavors you like, it's a good way to control the quality of your ingredients and can be quite inexpensive).

Heck when I was growing up the ice cream on Main Street (Magic Kingdom) was delicious. Butter Pecan was a fav. I don't like it anymore, it's Edy's now and used to be sponsored by a different company back then (which I can't recall, was during the early-mid 90's if anyone knows).

 

[jrhwdw]

Spirit, MID Summer 2017 for DL's F! ?!?!?!?! It should be ready by Memorial Weekend 2017! Would be nice if it made it's 25th Birthday(May 13....I think?)or ASAP in my mind!

Have you heard anything about ROL?

 

[mikeh]

Have you heard anything about ROL?

Good question!

 

[asianway]

Disney Springs is the physical real life equivalent of Sky Mall catalog. Everybody looking when they have nothing better to do, but nobody buys anything because you can get any of these items at 1/3 the price through Amazon. I'm heading to WDW next week and I have no desire to go to DS. For what? $11 ice cream cone? Sure I have curiosity to what they did to the place, but I'm not traveling 1000+ miles to visit an outdoor mall.

DHS will continue to be a shell of its former self until 2020. They should just make the admission half price to cover the half park it is now.

"....all the new timeshares they can build....". Boy can they build a lot of them. OVER saturation and I think that bird is coming home to roost given the cratering sales numbers. Meanwhile, the DVC maintenance percentage just keep climbing every year as well as how many points you can use and when you can use them. I remember I almost bought 240 points at Vero Beach in the early 2000's. Today, I would be paying about $1800 A YEAR just in maintenance fees! I can stay for a week at a hotel for less than that!! A lot of these DVC locations are going to be hitting the turn over cycle where the fees are going to steeply climb in order to gut and replenish everything inside. I think that is the next big cash grab by Disney as they start milking more money from DVC since new sales will not be the answer. Get ready!

Using Vero as an example of dues increases isn't really fair

 

[PREMiERdrum]

BTW, while this may irritate some fans- I wasn't super impressed with Ample Hills Creamery. It's perfectly valid if you like it. It's quality ice cream, but definitely not the best i've had and absolutely not worth the money. .

Come to Columbus. Have some Jeni's. Call it a day.

 

[brb1006]

THIS THIS THIS!!! OMG THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd much rather go to DL right now than WDW in it's current state.

I agree with that statement so much.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Come to Columbus. Have some Jeni's. Call it a day.

Looks like that parlor has more locations down south as well. Georgia as well as my old home of Nashville TN. No Florida stores though. There's plenty of good ice cream out there.

 

[SorcererMC]

Obviously everyone shops differently, but who is the intended demographic here?

Some cherry-picked data from ~2012 on intl tourists, who spend ~3x more than domestic tourists. 'Trip' = vacation and not shopping trip. And I think it is for 'travel party' and not individual. And this is for shopping, not dining. I will update/ correct if I made errors or if I can find the domestic tourist #s or avg spend for Brazil.
Avg: Mx $1,310; Germany $1,085; UK $968; Canada $757;

 

[kpilcher]

August may well be summer to most people in this hemisphere, but over the last 20 years (the horrible hurricane seasons of 2004-05 completed it) May has actually become a busier and more important month than August.

If parks are not busy around the Fourth of July and the following week, then it is a proverbial canary in the coal mine.

Hey Spirit!

This very much matches info I've seen/heard both anecdotally and read confidentially. Can't say more, but It's not exclusively a Disney issue. And it is too soon to factor in much reaction to Pulse & the gator. Will be interesting to see how things shake out. May not be a pretty Earnings conference call August 9th.

 

[jakeman]

BTW, while this may irritate some fans- I wasn't super impressed with Ample Hills Creamery. It's perfectly valid if you like it. It's quality ice cream, but definitely not the best i've had and absolutely not worth the money. While the flavors are rather unique, the quality of the ice cream itself tasted comparable to Häagen-Dazs (not the grocery kind, the parlor). Haven't visited a Ben & Jerry's parlor since the late 90's (so don't quote me on it having held up in quality during the past 16+ years) but that was also comparable in quality when I had it.

The best ice cream i've had was in Chicago and France. Homemade is also fantastic (it's easy to make, a machine does all the work and just toss in whatever flavors you like, it's a good way to control the quality of your ingredients and can be quite inexpensive).

Heck when I was growing up the ice cream on Main Street (Magic Kingdom) was delicious. Butter Pecan was a fav. I don't like it anymore, it's Edy's now and used to be sponsored by a different company back then (which I can't recall, was during the early-mid 90's if anyone knows).

It was previously sponsored by Nestle of which Edy's is a subsidiary. Prior to that it was Sealtest in 1993.

 

[RobidaFlats]

Some cherry-picked data from ~2012 on intl tourists, who spend ~3x more than domestic tourists. 'Trip' = vacation and not shopping trip. And I think it is for 'travel party' and not individual. And this is for shopping, not dining. I will update/ correct if I made errors or if I can find the domestic tourist #s or avg spend for Brazil.
Avg: Mx $1,310; Germany $1,085; UK $968; Canada $757;

I had not considered international travelers. There could be significant issues with availability/pricing vs. the home country.

I was so stereo-typically US-centric, haha.

 

[brb1006]

As always thanks for the info. If WDW execs are going west to learn a thing or two that has to be good... Right?

Tony Baxter comes to mind since he formerly worked at WDW and Disneyland in the past.