A Spirited Summer Special (AKA Phil Holmes Takes Anaheim!)

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

He edited the post - it originally read as though 18-24 months from today.

Common sense would dictate Florida should open first as there is no ROA to work around and resculpt. Yet they havent even torn down SOA yet. why? No clue...

Gotcha, thanks

I've also wondered about this. And Disney's gigantic price increases in food, merch, rooms, and tickets certainly doesn't help. When you're overpaying Disney for every other aspect of your trip, how much money is really left over in the vacation budget to splurge on meals from third parties at Springs? Some of these new restaurants look great, but how much money is there to go around? I think Disney's pricing strategies will have negative impacts on their operating participants.

They are eventually going to price out everyone except the super elite, or super stupid (as someone who has a trip upcoming, I certainly am starting to feel this way). All of those new restaurants and the whole DS area looks great but how can a retail center that is essentially aimed at tourists provide something so spectacular that people would spend their time (and money) there versus their local stores?

The restaurants will all be competing against each other. It'll be interesting to see who, in the long run, finds their foothold and stays, and which places disappear as soon as their contract has ended.

 

[WDW1974]

A few more thoughts while I have the time on a somewhat gloomy day ...

For those who think WDW (and UNI and all of O-Town) have most of the summer left, so "let's wait and see" (whenever I read this now I think Germany and WWII ...have no idea why!), I've been told in the last few years by FL tourism (state) officials that the summer season peaks between July 20-25th every year. The difference can have to do with calendars, July 4th etc ...

That means that taking the last date in the range of July 25th, every successive week will see lower and lower and lower numbers of visitors until things bottom out traditionally in the two middle weeks of September before gradually building again.

It is why Disney has been desperate to make September a Halloween month, even though it is not. It is why Disney is starting the Fall Food and Wine Festival on 9/14 this year (with booths opening to Lifestylers and bloggers etc a day or two earlier). August may well be summer to most people in this hemisphere, but over the last 20 years (the horrible hurricane seasons of 2004-05 completed it) May has actually become a busier and more important month than August.

If parks are not busy around the Fourth of July and the following week, then it is a proverbial canary in the coal mine.

Since I see a few posts above, again, let me clarify that right now the SWE is hoping to debut at DL in 12/18. WDW's earliest date I have ever heard is spring 2020. If you asked me right now, I'd say simply sometime that year.

Have heard some wonderful things about the new Mickey and the Magician show at DLP. Have heard some mediocre things about MK's new gator-less stage show.

I put this in one of my last post's before taking off for summer, but it does bear repeating: DCL's long range plan calls for another FOUR ships (in addition to the two on order now) and a second island in the Bahamas. I've since heard there is a strong likelihood that one of the older ships will be moved over to China as soon as ship 5 comes into the fleet.

 

[WDW1974]

I could definitely see a TDO vs. TDA behind the scenes problem. This could get very bad as WDW is not Disneyland, and is facing a unique set of challenges. I think there could be headline-making changes afoot (within the next month or so), and I'm not referring to Star Wars Land.

Oh, there are a few coming. I hate stating the obvious, but reread the post I put out and read between the lines.
Change is coming in Anaheim ... possibly as soon as this week. Now, watch all the bloggers/lifestylers/podcasters/Twits borrow the info and claim they never read a word on this site and certainly not of mine.

 

[WDW1974]

As always thanks for the info. If WDW execs are going west to learn a thing or two that has to be good... Right?

Can not hurt.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

I wonder what Disney Springs will look like when half of those new tenants are gone within 18 months of opening.

And half of it is stuff I couldn't even afford even if they have an Outlet mall version 7.2 miles down the road..

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

The headline of this article made my heart stop. So glad Phil isn't moving to Anaheim. But I hope the TDO execs are able to get past their egos and learn some things from TDA.

@asianway I haven't heard anything, but the park needs new Halloween entertainment badly. They could start with an actual parade for their lazy upcharge party.

 

[WDW1974]

I have been wondering about this since they started announcing tenants. How many restaurants can we really expect to succeed? They have to be cannibalizing each other, especially considering how slow the resort has been lately. I worry about shuttered storefronts and restaurants in the not too distant future.

Yup. Look, the market can only supports so many upscale retailers and Millenia has plenty and Saks closed there... Nordstrom couldn't make it at The Florida Mall because O-Town is an outlet mall/Walmart type of market. These stores are in very pricey leases and I don't see half of them there in three years. Locals are not going to go there to shop when barely anything can be had that you can't get elsewhere without dealing with the typical Disney hassles like crowds.

Dining too is soon going to be too overbuilt. Right now you have two majors closed in Fulton's and PH and STK just opened. You may even get a bounce because DIS raised prices and because Flying Fish has been closed all year. But I just don't see all of those lasting. Splitsville is struggling quite a bit I'm told.

 

[WDW1974]

Hopefully this does mean that a cultural shakeup is coming for the WDW execs. However, I have a hard time believing that DHS is 18-24 months behind already. Just does not seem plausible at this moment in time.

That has always been the plan.

 

[WDW1974]

Does this mean that Chapek is not quite as bad at his job some people on here would have us believe (over instance on IP's not withstanding)?

Mixed bag, but he still has no business in the position. I'm actually starting to think his being placed had more to do with Bob placating Ike for handing Kevin more power at Marvel. Chappie can move Marvel crap like no one from what I'm being told.

 

[WDW1974]

The headline of this article made my heart stop. So glad Phil isn't moving to Anaheim. But I hope the TDO execs are able to get past their egos and learn some things from TDA.

@asianway I haven't heard anything, but the park needs new Halloween entertainment badly. They could start with an actual parade for their lazy upcharge party.

Hey, you know me ... attention- and all. But with DIS you had the right reaction!

 

[asianway]

The headline of this article made my heart stop. So glad Phil isn't moving to Anaheim. But I hope the TDO execs are able to get past their egos and learn some things from TDA.

@asianway I haven't heard anything, but the park needs new Halloween entertainment badly. They could start with an actual parade for their lazy upcharge party.

Lost the ranch, lost Candy corn acres, lost the worst parade Ive ever seen on US soil....yet no replacements.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Lost the ranch, lost Candy corn acres, lost the worst parade Ive ever seen on US soil....yet no replacements.

Let's not cry over Candy Corn Acres, which was the saddest, ugliest piece of garbage they'd pumped out in awhile. But yes, DCA is Halloween-free and has been for some time. I'd say they should bring back the delightful and genuinely creepy TOT atmo show, but it's Twilight Zone themed and that is a ship that has sailed.

HalloweenTime at DLR needs serious help, but them parties still sell out! There were not totally off the wall rumors of a version of Hocus Pocus from WDW going into Fantasyland Theater for the parties, but that seems to have not moved forward. That would have been amazing.

 

[pax_65]

And half of it is stuff I couldn't even afford even if they have an Outlet mall version 7.2 miles down the road..

In another thread someone commented "When did Downtown Disney become an outlet mall?" I thought that was funny and mentioned it to my wife, and she responded, "But it's not an outlet mall, because the prices are so high". So true. You have the look of a high-end outlet mall but with theme park prices. I honestly don't see how it could possibly work.

 

[Mike S]

In another thread someone commented "When did Downtown Disney become an outlet mall?" I thought that was funny and mentioned it to my wife, and she responded, "But it's not an outlet mall, because the prices are so high". So true. You have the look of a high-end outlet mall but with theme park prices. I honestly don't see how it could possibly work.

1. Make our own outlet mall.
2. Make the prices higher than other outlet malls in the same area.
3. ???
4. Profit.

 

[ToTBellHop]

In another thread someone commented "When did Downtown Disney become an outlet mall?" I thought that was funny and mentioned it to my wife, and she responded, "But it's not an outlet mall, because the prices are so high". So true. You have the look of a high-end outlet mall but with theme park prices. I honestly don't see how it could possibly work.

That's how we felt too. The new dining is great but it is a bit of a hard sell to deal with the transportation to get down there for a meal. I think they should have included new experiences and fewer high-end retail shops. At least a reasonable use for the DisneyQuest space would've been nice.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

That's how we felt too. The new dining is great but it is a bit of a hard sell to deal with the transportation to get down there for a meal. I think they should have included new experiences and fewer high-end retail shops. At least a reasonable use for the DisneyQuest space would've been nice.

Sorry, but the price of the average WDW vacation, I cannot justify the time spent (time is money when on an expensive vacation!) to get to DS- especially with WDW transport buses and traffic the way they are- and the money on dining when there are so many options at the theme parks, resorts, and of course, off site.

I just don't get it. But I'm glad someone does. :\

 

[HarrisburgMouse]

TDA seems to value the little things far more than TDO---cleanliness, show quality on attractions, added entertainment perks. Hope TDO execs take note. It's really okay to disappoint guests by having a regular maintenance schedule of attractions like TDO seems to have.

 

[ThemeParkJunkee]

I started my "digestion" of this information with Disney Springs vs the economy. DS has: 105 Shopping venues, 50 Dining options, 12 Entertainment venues and 3 Activities including their Grand Opening celebration. It also has, inadequate parking for local traffic, overprices everything, lots and lots of single line "designer" type stores requiring you to compare building to building and it is spread out over miles.

When economic factors impacted travel in 2009 for a number of years, many of the first victims in our area were high end stores and restaurants in saturated markets. Not everyone would survive. But, we are not Orlando. The leases are what? 18 months? I don't believe there is a waiting list for vendor space and shuttered stores will make the place look tacky. A few closed venues won't look too bad. An idea for a store failed. A lot of venues? Disney Springs concept failed.

On to research more stuff....

 

[SorcererMC]

For those who think WDW (and UNI and all of O-Town) have most of the summer left, so "let's wait and see" (whenever I read this now I think Germany and WWII ...have no idea why!), I've been told in the last few years by FL tourism (state) officials that the summer season peaks between July 20-25th every year. The difference can have to do with calendars, July 4th etc ...

That means that taking the last date in the range of July 25th, every successive week will see lower and lower and lower numbers of visitors until things bottom out traditionally in the two middle weeks of September before gradually building again.

It is why Disney has been desperate to make September a Halloween month, even though it is not. It is why Disney is starting the Fall Food and Wine Festival on 9/14 this year (with booths opening to Lifestylers and bloggers etc a day or two earlier). August may well be summer to most people in this hemisphere, but over the last 20 years (the horrible hurricane seasons of 2004-05 completed it) May has actually become a busier and more important month than August.

If parks are not busy around the Fourth of July and the following week, then it is a proverbial canary in the coal mine.

You have officially made my day for adding this explanation/ analysis. Thank you.

 

[Jon81uk]

Yup. Look, the market can only supports so many upscale retailers and Millenia has plenty and Saks closed there... Nordstrom couldn't make it at The Florida Mall because O-Town is an outlet mall/Walmart type of market. These stores are in very pricey leases and I don't see half of them there in three years. Locals are not going to go there to shop when barely nothing can't be had elsewhere without dealing with the typical Disney hassles like crowds.

Dining too is soon going to be too overbuilt. Right now you have two majors closed in Fulton's and PH and STK just opened. But I just don't see all of those lasting. Splitsville is struggling quite a bit I'm told.

Yep for some reason everyone keeps comparing Disney Springs to the outlet malls, but the prices mean they are going after Millenia more. The outlet malls are a different thing.

I agree dining is heavily overbuilt and entertainment is underbuilt, too much focus on music and guitars. Nothing offering comedy and there aren't even many bars that are just bars (other than Hanger Bar). Everything that made Pleasure Island interesting hasn't been done this time.