A Spirited Perfect Ten

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
The story I heard that the lake in front of Odyssey is a sinkhole stabilized as a lake. I don't think they'd be able to build on it, even if you ignore the fact that Disney would never spend the money to move an old attraction...

Echo is a man made lake. Odyssey was purposely moved back due to the sinkhole in front if it. It swallowed earth movers IIRC
If that's the case than relocating it's a small world to that location would obviously be tougher. Millennium Village could work, and if changes are planned for Imagination, the Imagination side of Showcase Plaza could also work.

If the information I've received (and others as well) about One Man's Dream closing, it's something that could be easily relocated to The Odyssey or Innoventions.
 

tribbleorlfl

Well-Known Member
Fascinating, I would love to know more. This makes 2 sinkholes in that area that I'm aware of. The other being under the back corner of the old Horizion building.

I have seen that theory debunked @marni1971 Any idea?

I believe the final official word is that there WAS a sinkhole found and filled before Horizons was built
I've posted this before in regards to this question, but my father was a foreman on the maintenance team at Horizons in the early-to-mid 90's. There was some structural cracking discovered that was believed to be from a sinkhole, or at the least foundation settling from the less-stable earth on that side of the park and the weight of the building.
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
I believe the final official word is that there WAS a sinkhole found and filled before Horizons was built

Actually, the entire WDW property is karst geology and is characterized by shallow underground fresh water systems that eat away at the limestone and sand causing sinkholes, dolines and caves.

"Karst topography is described as being any kind of landscape typified by

porous sedimentary rock that is easily dissolved away resulting in unique land

features, such as caves and sinkholes.

There are many examples of Karst topography around the continental United

States, but perhaps the most striking example would be that of Florida. The

state of Florida sits upon layers and layers of soft limestone and sand.

Florida also has little topographical relief when compared to the other 49

states."

http://rnr.eng.usf.edu/ret_2002/sinkholes_in_floridian_karst_topography.pdf
 

ThemeParkJunkee

Well-Known Member
My favorite spot also. Are they still doing the nightly opera performance from the balcony. Loved that, it was a fun way to get a brief glimpse into an art form I haven't had much exposure to.

They did when I stayed in October. I'm sure they still have it. We had a lovely bottle of wine at the Thirsty Fish and enjoyed sundown opera in the Piazza. Beautiful resort.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It's my understanding that many have complained, and nothing ever changes. I've done the ballon thing in the past. Makes me laugh thinking housekeeping comes in for trash and towel, and keep finding balloons tied to a chair in every unit.

It needs to be brought up via email to every DVC Resort GM as well as Ken Potrock and all execs above him in TDO.

And it needs to be brought up vocally during one of the annual condo meetings. I actually wanted to go to last year's in December at Coronado Springs, but 'Angie' vetoed me since she had limited vacation time.

I don't know what it is about Americans in the 21st century being so damn afraid of confronting anyone in a position of power (actually, I do ... and it started with 9/11 and I could write a few books on it, but not the point here). As a consumer that isn't happy you have EVERY right to be demanding and forceful (without using physical force) to make a company deliver a quality product and the one you have paid for.

Wish I had more time for this subject now, but I don't ...
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Personally i'd rather something in WoL based on Inside Out... as sad as Imagination is, the last thing Epcot needs right now is more attraction re-do's. The park needs to gain back capacity/rides, not simply continue to keep fixing up existing rides (although Journey definitely needs it).

Is there any chance WoL gets used in the future for something like this do you think?

Understand something, Imagination is dead. And whether people love Figment or not, the bastardized, godawful ride that took over from the classic and has twice failed can't survive. And if Disney doesn't want to make Figment a big part of Imagination's future, then I'd rather see them do something of quality in there. And this IP is absolutely perfect for that.

As for WoL (or Odyssey or World Showplace) once a venue is transferred over to Convention Services/Special Events, it usually (almost always) never comes back. I absolutely would like to see new things in both Imagination and WoL. But I don't believe for a second that Disney wants to run and maintain one of the facilities, let alone two. ... Again, in O-Town, it is all about doing as little as possible. No, it wasn't that way under Michael Eisner ...
 

Fantasmicguy

Well-Known Member
I was just saying it's possible. You made it sound like it wasn't remotely possible for Epcot to ever do 80-85% of MK's numbers. If TDO actually bothered to make the place fully fleshed out and appealing, it could even equal MK the same way DisneySea equals Tokyo Disneyland roughly. With $4-5 billion of course. $10 billion is hyperbole, especially since 50-55% of the stuff I said is just enhancing already-standing attractions.

That $4-5 billion should have been spent over the last 20-25 years.

Beyond replacing the people-eating World of Motion/Horizons with lower-capacity thrill rides, or kiddifying The Seas, or adding a low-capacity E on a near-dead side of the park, or neutering Figment to the point that it's always a walk-on.

I didn't say Epcot would reach those levels overnight or this decade or the next. TDO has neglected it for far too long for that to happen. Same goes for DHS and even AK.

My point is that Epcot SHOULD have increased more than 3-5% over a 25 year period. It should be at 14 million-15 million/year right now, if TDO had properly invested in it over the years and kept FW fresh and added a few new things to WS.

Others have pointed out (insiders) that Epcot has almost double MK's capacity yet it gets half its annual numbers roughly. Regardless of how much moolah F&W, F&G bring in, that's a huge missed opportunity.

Epcot is what needs to soak people away from MK. They even have a nifty monorail specifically designed for that! DHS and AK may become full-day parks, but 60,000-70,000 is the absolute most I can ever see both being able to hold on a given day. Epcot could do 180,000-200,000 if its expansion pads/dead space were maximized.
They replaced World of Motion because Epcot needed knuckles....

WHITE KNUCKLES
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Understand something, Imagination is dead. And whether people love Figment or not, the bastardized, godawful ride that took over from the classic and has twice failed can't survive. And if Disney doesn't want to make Figment a big part of Imagination's future, then I'd rather see them do something of quality in there. And this IP is absolutely perfect for that.

As for WoL (or Odyssey or World Showplace) once a venue is transferred over to Convention Services/Special Events, it usually (almost always) never comes back. I absolutely would like to see new things in both Imagination and WoL. But I don't believe for a second that Disney wants to run and maintain one of the facilities, let alone two. ... Again, in O-Town, it is all about doing as little as possible. No, it wasn't that way under Michael Eisner ...
I guess you're right....... *sniff* Figment could always have a cameo.......
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
In other news it appears that the TWDC cost cutting madness has spread to ESPN

This year while revenue increased 13% operating income dropped %2 - there is a familiar tale to WDW fans.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/06/24/disney-espn-cost-cutting-john-skipper/

I think there are going to be bad times (more) ahead for ESPN.

Sports fans no longer depend on ESPN for sports as much as they used to. Sure in some cases they are forced to watch certain events that ESPN has the rights but they do not justify the price tag.

Funny thing is I get most of my sports news from individuals (some work for ESPN some do not) and teams directly through social media. I no longer have to watch or go to their web page for sports info.

They are going to have to re-invent themselves.
 

ThemeParkJunkee

Well-Known Member
I will have to wait until Tuesday to see Inside Out. It's $5 for any ticket on Tuesday. I'm striving to be a faux 1%er. I used yesterday to see Jurassic World which I thoroughly enjoyed. It dragged in a few places and some of the acting was contrived but the visuals made up for it. I also have to forgive some of the acting issues as it is very hard to interact with a green screen. I've done a little acting in my youth and prefer live theater.

I am looking forward to seeing Inside Out even though I will be by myself in a theater full of kids.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I'm not disagreeing with you, because that's an article I've wanted to write for years. However...

1) even though I've been with the Weekly nearly 10 years, I'm only a freelancer (not staff) and must defer to my editors & publisher on those kind of decisions.

Oh, I get that. And I'd flat out ask them why they wouldn't want a story that winds up ... what's the social media word ... oh yeah ... trending. Because a real in-depth piece on how Disney controls the message would get picked up all over. You could also, as a freelancer, write it for someone else if the OW would strangely not run with it.

I do get how 'complicated' these situations can get from my days working in that field. How a great story gets killed just because it doesn't fit into an editor or publisher's personal agenda.

2) the bad blood between Disney PR and OW goes back long before me, to the days when Charlie Ridgeway was at WDW and Jim Hill wrote a critical column for the Weekly:
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/eye-drive/Category?oid=2240448

Yeah, well, Jim Hill has changed his strategy to be relevant. So instead of critical pieces of writing (even though I've long hated his style, such as it is), he now writes strictly propaganda. Yes, Anna and Elsa topiaries or an interview with some Star Wars toon voice 'talent' or the like. So strange that Jim has gone completely soft on Disney (and UNI for that matter) and is now back on their lists. I believe they even fly him to events and give him free hotels, tickets, meals etc.

But no matter, what went down between Disney and Hill has nothing to do with you, the OW today or the story I'm suggesting. (And I can't suggest it strong enough ... let's just say I know an organization much larger that would almost certainly jump on it IF someone else broke it!)

3) WDW does cooperate with us in the sense that I could request a comp park pass if I wanted (I don't, I pay for my AP). They just don't invite us to media events, but that doesn't stop me from covering them; I was as the Frozen Summer parade debut standing just outside the press corral, and had a better view than they did ;-)

Free tickets mean nothing. All you have to do is make friends with a few CMs, regrettably, one check away from living in their cars and you'll have all the free tix you need. As far as I'm concerned, any writer who normally covers the parks should have APs (preferably paid for by the employer). I don't believe Soup & Salad Sandra visits WDW without letting CP know she's on property. Not how I'd play it ... reporters are supposed to be paid independent observers.

4) I've tried addressing the issue in print a few times over the years, and always get a big backlash. Not only do most readers not care about media access, they think I'm a big whiner if I complain about it.

The story shouldn't be about YOU. The story should be about how Disney fashions the narrative by controlling the media. Who they place on their precious list (and purchase) would only be part. As media has shifted this presents a huge opportunity for someone like yourself because even organizations like the NYT and WSJ have ceded their independence and become propagandists for many of the companies/politicos they cover. Meaning an alternative outlet like the OW, or something like it, is precisely the place for breaking something like this.

Again, you are dealing with what I believe is the largest single site private employer in the nation (definitely in Florida). How they control what people get to read and discuss about their business operations affects so many people ... many who would never go near one of their parks.

I'd love to think a front page article from me would bring the whole Disney PR machine crashing down. But realistically, it would barely merit a shrug...

I think ... know, I know you're wrong. You should push it. Strongly. ... And there are other ways of going about this that you likely are already aware of.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
I guess you're right....... *sniff* Figment could always have a cameo.......
Why not have WoL include an Inside Out show along with an Adventures Through Inner Space-esque Omni behind Energy and a Body Wars-esque coaster in the rest of the plot, and let Imagination be Figment/Dreamfinder/Bing Bong? Then link the two with a Train of Thought that goes all around Future World.

It's a nice compromise :p
 

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