A Spirited Perfect Ten

[AEfx]

Maybe because he seems obsessed with the topic and defending Bob Iger and has no real interest in the subject ,... beyond his bulge for me?

Dude, just because I've questioned your questionable information as you use the man for your personal punching bag day in and day out doesn't mean I have defended him.

Keep on ranting against me - your spate of postings tonight has done nothing but prove that every word said about you, your behavior, and your obsession with making everyone a "hater" is absolutely true.

I don't have a bulge for you, bud, at this point I just feel sorry for you.

 

[WDW1974]

So the story is that the HuffPost said, "This blogger's posts are no longer available on The Huffington Post due to inaccuracies in representations he made regarding his professional affiliations." My proof is in the fact that this was posted by the Huffington Post - who has written several articles casting Disney in an unfavorable light.

Why is this even here? That was posted for all of about an hour after the HuffPo pulled an Op-Ed (Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China) down. It (the statement you quoted above about the author) was removed because it was factually inaccurate and libelous and legal action was threatened. ... If it were the truth, then there's no way they ever would have removed it. They knew their proverbial ar$es were on the line. For all we know, there could be legal maneuverings now or a settlement could have been reached.

[QUOTE="LuvtheGoof, post: 6740353, member: 58994]
Now provide your proof that I am wrong. Quoting Spirit does not count.[/QUOTE]

Since I don't have a clue what you are talking about, I'm just going to assume you are wrong. Or just confused and out of your league.

 

[1023]

Nobody has been willing to make declarative statements regarding the status of that itinerary. There was even credence given to the idea that it was not fully approved and that it is something Disney tried to single handedly push at the last minute.

Based on the language of the itinerary copied into post http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/a-spirited-perfect-ten.894588/page-877#post-6723999 it would seem to be as one would expect for a negotiated event. I re-read it for context and content. I find little there to be a one sided document. Unless we are disregarding it and saying it was fabricated out of whole cloth, what should I derive?

*1023*

 

[Brewmaster]

Since the subject has been broached, I can openly state I have a "bulge" for this guy...

 

[Hakunamatata]

Well he's going into the right field - nothing ever gets done in Washington either.

Costs a fortune when it does, gets lied about, spun, and gets claimed a glowing success when it's an abject failure.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Uncle Bob has a few Political Skeletons that would be difficult to overcome. Things change when you move from corporate politics to national politics. Many gloves come off then.

*1023*

Surely the man who,controls the global media could hold onto some reigns.

Based on the language of the itinerary copied into post http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/a-spirited-perfect-ten.894588/page-877#post-6723999 it would seem to be as one would expect for a negotiated event. I re-read it for context and content. I find little there to be a one sided document. Unless we are disregarding it and saying it was fabricated out of whole cloth, what should I derive?

*1023*

Look at the follow up posts, notable by Lee.

 

[WDW1974]

What's really amazing here is how many people blindly follow one "man" on the internet that they have never met and for the most part know nothing about. He's posted a plethora of opinions, theories, and circumstantial evidence and attempted to connect the dots without any hard facts or sources. Yet people on here widely believe it to be proof and rather than wanting him to prove it they demand that the doubters disprove it. I hope at least some people see the problem with this.

Oh, here's Peter ... one of my fave fanbois. I guess you're bothered by my 'online popularity'? Just so you're clear, I've met probably 30 people from this site by now. Many are close friends. I don't think I've met a one that I regret or that I have a poor relationship with. Of course, that may speak to the caliber of the people who want to meet me in the real world, people who are confident in who they are in the real world and not simply their voice behind a keyboard.

And, again, you (or anyone) refusing to except my sources and evidence and knowledge doesn't make it untrue. It simply makes you ill-informed. I don't ever get an acceptable answer for what proof my 'lovers' want. It just is never what I provide. They always want more ... like a fanboi at a buffet.

And no. He doesn't owe anyone on here anything. But those on here owe it to themselves to seek out facts and ask for proof not just blindly believe it because they read it from some anonymous posters thread on the Internet. And while he doesn't owe any of us proof of his statements. The people and corporations that may be victims of his libel and defamation if his statements are not true may see things differently.

Can we cut the bull$hit? I'm a nobody on an Internet message board when it is convenient and a dangerous criminal who libels and defames everyone from Meg Crofton to Willow Bay Iger to the very Walt Disney Company. Which is it? And if your insane assertions were true, doncha think those people and the company itself would have come after me long before you even knew who I was?

This isn't simply accusing them of taking too long to build an e-ticket or saving money by using plain napkins. He has accused people of fraud, bribery, misleading investors, and on more than one occasion sex crimes just to name a few. These are serious accusations that are probably best suited somewhere other than a Disney "fan" site. But if they are here they should be taken seriously and appropriately. Just believing them because you like the poster or because it is the popular thing to do is certainly not appropriate.

I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am questioning. I am wondering. I am seeking the truth. Not PR spin.
And I have never accused anyone of sex crimes (but you know that's well out of bounds ...I won't report the post, but lets see what the mods think). All I have stated is that WDI has had (and has) issues with Imagineers not respecting age lines. It is true.

 

[1023]

Surely the man who,controls the global media could hold onto some reigns.

I am sure Uncle Bob would love to read that.

Look at the follow up posts, notable by Lee.

I scanned five or so pages.... How far down are @Lee 's comments relevant to what I posted? I am sure I just missed it...

*1023*

 

[WDW1974]

Absolutely it would. And there hasn't been a chorus of "who cares". There have been a few posters genuinely asking why they SHOULD care. That is not the same thing.

And higher-level discourse? What, like sports and certain banned users? There is some good discussion here, certainly. I'm not disputing that. I read every word like the rest of you. Why is that certain insiders are taken at their word but Spirit isn't? Why does his information frequently seem to devolve into arguments like this?

Those questions are semi-rhetorical, as I think the answers should be fairly obvious.

In any case, there are folks making intelligent posts on both "sides". However "if you don't like it, don't read it" is an absurd reply to intelligent responses that aren't accepting Spirit's word as gospel. As are the "There's a lotta things...you don't know anything about, Dottie. Things you wouldn't understand. Things you couldn't understand. Things you shouldn't understand" replies.

Welcome back.

I knew you couldn't stay away. Pathology and all. A good mind is a terrible thing to waste!

 

[AEfx]

Based on the language of the itinerary copied into post http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/a-spirited-perfect-ten.894588/page-877#post-6723999 it would seem to be as one would expect for a negotiated event. I re-read it for context and content. I find little there to be a one sided document. Unless we are disregarding it and saying it was fabricated out of whole cloth, what should I derive?

*1023*

The itinerary was never the problem.

It was the second half of the document - of each "--" point - who's perspective is that? A Disney staffer? A reporter? A bus driver? Someone who astrally traveled?

That has been my only question since the beginning, because who's commentary that is has a WHOLE lot to do with how one takes the interpretation.

 

[WDW1974]

This is EXHAUSTING. Look - this is an Internet message board; a thread started by one person as his platform for his news and rumors. No one is going to name sources on a message board, so you can either believe it or not. If you don't believe it, that's fine, but we're now on dozens of pages of nothing but the same couple people going back and forth.

We get it @AEfx. You don't buy it. Great. You're not gonna get more documentation from anyone - again, this is a message board, not a court of law. For the love of God, move on. This is the Spirit's thread where he posts his info, news and rumors. Your doubt has been duly noted - it will not change his position, and it's unlikely he could say anything to change yours. And frankly, you've typed so many paragraphs on the subject I'm not sure what else could possibly be said.

I don't mean this to be rude or insulting, so please don't take it that way. I'm just sure there are better uses of all of our time than to rehash the same arguments ad infinitum.

You don't get it (or actually do). He's getting off on this. He's trying to take over the thread. He lies and twists in just about every post he is now placing out ... and he's living on the forum.

And, yes, it's out of hand. But apparently our mods have to actually live and sleep ...

 

[1023]

The itinerary was never the problem.

It was the second half of the document - of each "--" point - who's perspective is that? A Disney staffer? A reporter? A bus driver? Someone who astrally traveled?

That has been my only question since the beginning, because who's commentary that is has a WHOLE lot to do with how one takes the interpretation.

Certainly... I agree that the craftsman of the added opinion at the bottom was just that, opinion. (speculation might be a good word too.) Today we tend to call informed opinion analysis. I took away that the bullet points were added by @WDW1974 ... I could be wrong...

The top half looked much like similar documents I have seen for similar purposes. A scripted PR events calendar. Like I said, if this was also crafted, it was well done. Based on the track record of the poster when it comes to attractions and such, I take the leap that it is genuine...

*1023*

 

[WDW1974]

While I don't agree with all of what Spirit says, and we've even spoken about it in the past, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's been correct about several things on this site.

I've been correct about ''several'' things? What a back-handed compliment. Seriously, I break more real news here than anyone who covers Disney in the 'real media' ... not that it matters beyond my huge ego. But it still remains true.

That was reiterating the backbone of my point earlier. If you know what you're getting into (in these Spirited Threads) and you don't like the topic at hand, why waste your time? We should all have better things to do than try to "prove" or "disprove" pieces of info that cannot be proven or disproven from an anonymous online forum member.

It's all a pee-pee measuring contest. ... It's gotten very old. I hope y'all have fun when I finally get smart and go take another break ...

 

[AEfx]

You don't get it (or actually do). He's getting off on this. He's trying to take over the thread. He lies and twists in just about every post he is now placing out ... and he's living on the forum.

And, yes, it's out of hand. But apparently our mods have to actually live and sleep ...

I have never had a single posting removed nor have I ever been contacted by a mod in 12 years. Though I'm sure you have certainly tried.

You are off the rails, man.

Actually, you are half correct - I'm living at my computer at the moment because I'm editing a large manuscript with an impending due date. I keep message boards up on my side monitor as a "palate cleanser". It's good to take a break every few pages and check in and stretch some other muscles. Since my alerts keep lighting up like a Christmas Tree, I keep landing here instead of some other site.

But seriously man, keep personally attacking me - make this about personality and not the facts. That's your way. Since I was nothing but a casual fan of yours until I became your most frequent target since you need negative attention so badly you create it, I'm glad I can fill this role that you so desperately, and I mean DESPERATELY, apparently need.

 

[WDW1974]

I still don't understand how an alleged disagreement essentially about style could harm a multi-billion dollar business arrangement? Is the Chinese government going to steal billions from TWDC? So what they don't like Iger's style? Big Deal. Money talks....

And if that happens I don't necessarily buy that this would be bad for domestic park investment. Wouldn't TWDC have to try and recoup their lost investments by turning to their other products and properties? I almost want China to kick Disney out so we can have a real national debate about how horrible that government is.

Maybe we can have the USA kick Disney out, so we can have a real national debate about how horrible OUR government is?

 

[AEfx]

Certainly... I agree that the craftsman of the added opinion at the bottom was just that, opinion. (speculation might be a good word too.) Today we tend to call informed opinion analysis. I took away that the bullet points were added by @WDW1974 ... I could be wrong...

The top half looked much like similar documents I have seen for similar purposes. A scripted PR events calendar. Like I said, if this was also crafted, it was well done. Based on the track record of the poster when it comes to attractions and such, I take the leap that it is genuine...

*1023*

Not according to him, his only commentary was at the top.

Now you come to what the conundrum has been this entire time. What this whole dog and pony / hater and apologist show is all about.

He won't tell us where that information came from (Uncle Bob "was held"? says who??) and that is what has set him off the rails.

Just that question.

 

[WDW1974]

This is an internet message board, not a court of law or the Spanish Inquisition. I have lurked here for many years and followed numerous special interest topics through the Usenet days to now. At the end of the day, everyone needs to make up their own mind what to believe and what not to believe. You'll never get facts, proof, data, sources, citations to fully back up any statement on a message board. Either people don't have them, can't reveal them, or people won't believe them anyway. It becomes far to easy to throw that accusation back at any poster.

For the majority of high level topics being bandied about, most of those direct facts will see never the light here on a message board. Do I think that Disney has fumbled their entry into China? Absolutely based on my experience and what I've seen. Is the relationship unhealthy between TWDC and Shendi, looks like it to me, again based on my experience. Did the additional $800 million not go towards increased attractions at opening day? Sure looks like it. These all seem pretty straightforward. Do I have facts and data to back it up? Nope. Do I need any? Nope.

I believe mr. @WDW1974 has laid the trail of breadcrumbs for people to follow. It's up to each of us individually to decide whether you believe there's something there and choose to think about the trail. If you have dealt with large joint ventures in China, both good and bad, the "leaked" document is not far fetched in the slightest. Would I like to see the original? You bet, but I also respect posters' need for anonymity. The missing $800M, did it go for bribes? Could be, happens all the time in China ( and don't be fooled by China's public crackdown on graft). If it did, did Eiger know? None of us will probably never know. I think it's more likely that it went for cost overruns and rebuilds due to shoddy construction. But again, I doubt we'll ever have irrefutable facts detailing it.

Do I think Gary Snyder's article "Disney CEO fumbles entry to China" was pulled at Disney's request? Yes and I don't believe it had anything to do with Mr. Snyder misrepresenting his credentials. Will we ever see court documents and phone records detailing what went down? No, but HuffPo immediately retracting their statement is telling.

WSJ not touching the potential story on China? There are posters here with direct journalism experience much more than I have. Some of them I know and trust. Is it plausible that there was a quid pro quo? Absolutely. But I'll never know for certain.

I for one think the story is fascinating. There appears to be enough circumstantial evidence to be concerned and make me want to continue following and digging in to the story. As someone who has dealt with international expansion of companies and the difficulties in China, I'm especially interested. As a lifelong fan of Walt Disney and the Disney legacy, I'm all the more fascinated. I'm just enjoying the rational discussion and the potential pieces of information to put together a narrative. The argumentation, I'm not enjoying as much.

No comment beyond this post sums things up quite well ... and I am dizzy from just a little while at the keyboard. No 18 hours for me. Great post!

 

[Milk Crate]

Welcome back.

I knew you couldn't stay away. Pathology and all. A good mind is a terrible thing to waste!

Not sure who you think I am, but you're losing credibility with me every second you think you know who I am.

As far as your last point, couldn't agree more!

 

[AEfx]

No comment beyond this post sums things up quite well ... and I am dizzy from just a little while at the keyboard. No 18 hours for me. Great post!

Just when folks start getting to the bottom of things...convenience is your middle name.

 

[Muchacho]

The persistent questioning of the validity of Spirit's posts and the obvious annoyance at his answers really makes me question the motivation of some posters here. If you don't care for what he's saying, then why read them? Life is too short.

This is the type of post that can be frustrating to a brand new reader/poster (such as myself), because by stating things this way, you're immediately calling into question the motivations of anyone posting a dissenting opinion, or even skepticism.

The reason people read posts on forums is largely for entertainment, and additionally to be a part of the conversation about something they care about. I love Disney, I read about Disney avidly, and I want to talk about it with like-minded people.

When someone questions the validity of a post (by an ostensibly anonymous person), they're not necessarily questioning that poster's character. Sometimes it's just in the spirit of discussion, and by setting these parameters like "everyone who questions him has ulterior motives, and anyone who's annoyed by his responses are out to get him..." that breeds an environment where only people who agree feel comfortable posting.

That's not what the internet's about.