A Spirited Perfect Ten

[PhotoDave219]

A lot of those people are 'off the books' to start with.. so they aren't counted

Tell that to Scott York....

 

[Donald Razorduck]

The lines for Jurassic World at the local Malco were most impressive, fullhouse at the noon showing with lines out the door for the rest. The new meet and meet should do quite well. The Minion preview looks hilarious as well. Universal will get some play out of those two.

 

[Goofyernmost]

In response to the stuff about Disney pricing out the middle classes:

The entry fee may be flipping high, by any measurement, but there is still a massive variation in spend among guests even after that fee. Bluntly put, for some the entry fees will be their biggest cost of a WDW vacation, while for others it'll simply be a rounding error on their vacation budget as a whole.

A WDW vacation is one of the most segmented products I've seen. Which raises a question: I completely understand why Disney doesn't raise the price of dining to astronomical levels (given how quickly restaurants book out). The appeal of the DDP to be able to have a free meal at Be Our Guest, a restaurant you probably won't be able to get into, to eat a meal you won't like even if by some miracle you do get in, is a huge driver for on site stays which is worth more than the slight increase that the "market rate" of the restaurants would get them. But given what a cash cow paid-Fastpass is for other parks around the world, how come Disney has yet to follow that path? I guess they're terrified of losing the business of people who feel priced out of a good experience, but you have to question why they're worried about that if their main motivation is to price out the middle classes and maximise short-term $'s.

Part of the problem is that people only seem to look at it as a package deal. When you say how expensive it is to stay at WDW you are correct. It is awful. But, it doesn't have to be that way. In February I went to WDW for a short three day visit. I live in North Carolina and I drove to Kissimmee, that's day one.

I stayed offsite at a very comfortable hotel just a short distance from the Main Gate. I, of course had my own transportation. I had breakfast offsite and visited DHS/Epcot and had lunch at the Fish and Chips place in the UK and had an ADR in Epcot for dinner, that's day two.

Then it was Epcot/MK day. Again had breakfast offsite, lunch at the Umbrella in Epcot and went offsite for a brief break and dinner. Returned to MK for the evening, that was day three.

The next day I had breakfast offsite again, Lunch at the Liberty Tree Tavern (ADR) and left late afternoon for Dinner offsite. That was day four.

Day five I returned to North Carolina. The total that I spent including parking, tickets, meals, lodging, extras and gas was $620.00. That's $124.00 per day for everything. Now if one chooses to stay as a prisoner of tour onsite, then it is costly. Every overpriced room, every overpriced meal and every overpriced snack is a requirement. However, none of it is required and the benefit of doing so, in my mind, is nowhere near the cost.

However, people do chose to do it that way and then complain about how expensive it is to go to WDW. The sad thing is that they could have spent less then half that if they did an alternative and still would be able to enjoy just about everything WDW has to offer. It's a personal choice and we have no one to blame but ourselves if we chose to pay it.

 

[AEfx]

This would all be fairly easy to fix, so I can only assume Universal doesn't want to because this is the demographic they've chosen to appeal to. Which is fine, but far from being relaxing, it makes me want to run away after about a day and a half of exposure. There are a few truly relaxing places and attractions (King's Cross, E.T., Mythos restaurant) but as a resort it's a little too relentless for my liking.

It's called: your hotel.

You relax at your hotel. Not a busy theme park.

That's the mindset Disney has us in, that one must spend every day of your trip in a theme park since you paid for length-of-stay admission. And the true head scratcher as to why folks pay so much to stay on-site when they spend so very little time at their hotels.

This is the dynamic that is changing in Orlando, as people start to rediscover what an Orlando week can be like without Disney as a part of it. Disney doesn't want day guests, they want full on, don't leave property, captives. Every ounce of their program and marketing is geared towards this end.

Universal is not concerned with being a "resort destination" the same way that WDW has. Sure, they'd love you to stay there - but they aren't making the same mistake Disney did in totally insulating itself from the greater Orlando market by making it the standard, not the exception. That's why when people say "well more people in Orlando is good for everyone" it's just not the case - because Disney is so insulated it's an all or none proposition for a lot of people, especially those who aren't regulars. Disney has pretty much walled off their garden which gave them some benefits, but this is one of the unforeseen consequences.

Once Universal has a big splashy new waterpark where folks can also relax, they've pretty much sewn up the ability for someone to spend a week in Orlando without going to WDW for anything more than a stop at DTD. Universal will be able to take up half your week at their parks at that point, add in Sea World, Legoland, or another FL attraction, a day or two of relaxation and other smaller Orlando attractions like the Wax Museum or the Eye, etc. - that's a pretty full week. And has some...gasp!...actual relaxation, not Disney-style relaxation (where you are just greatful for some place A/C to hang out inside where you aren't pushed along).

 

[Funmeister]

Part of the problem is that people only seem to look at it as a package deal. When you say how expensive it is to stay at WDW you are correct. It is awful. But, it doesn't have to be that way. In February I went to WDW for a short three day visit. I live in North Carolina and I drove to Kissimmee, that's day one.

I stayed offsite at a very comfortable hotel just a short distance from the Main Gate. I, of course had my own transportation. I had breakfast offsite and visited DHS/Epcot and had lunch at the Fish and Chips place in the UK and had an ADR in Epcot for dinner, that's day two.

Then it was Epcot/MK day. Again had breakfast offsite, lunch at the Umbrella in Epcot and went offsite for a brief break and dinner. Returned to MK for the evening, that was day three.

The next day I had breakfast offsite again, Lunch at the Liberty Tree Tavern (ADR) and left late afternoon for Dinner offsite. That was day four.

Day five I returned to North Carolina. The total that I spent including parking, tickets, meals, lodging, extras and gas was $620.00. That's $124.00 per day for everything. Now if one chooses to stay as a prisoner of tour onsite, then it is costly. Every overpriced room, every overpriced meal and every overpriced snack is a requirement. However, none of it is required and the benefit of doing so, in my mind, is nowhere near the cost.

However, people do chose to do it that way and then complain about how expensive it is to go to WDW. The sad thing is that they could have spent less then half that if they did an alternative and still would be able to enjoy just about everything WDW has to offer. It's a personal choice and we have no one to blame but ourselves if we chose to pay it.

Even at 2000 prices (parking, tickets, meals, lodging, extras and gas) do not add up to $124 per day.

 

[AEfx]

However, people do chose to do it that way and then complain about how expensive it is to go to WDW. The sad thing is that they could have spent less then half that if they did an alternative and still would be able to enjoy just about everything WDW has to offer. It's a personal choice and we have no one to blame but ourselves if we chose to pay it.

To be fair, Disney does not make this easy to understand. This is what I was talking about above - ever since the introduction of MYW and the ME and all that jazz, Disney has done everything possible to make you think that the only way to properly do WDW is to stay on site. Now with MM+, etc. - even more so. When you go to the website, like most people do when thinking about a vacation, they have no idea how slanted all the information is and that so many of the "benefits" of staying on property are BS. It's like there is no greater Orlando past DTD (and even those hotels they don't push nearly like they used to).

Like always, it's information which is the difficult part. Sure, folks need to be responsible to research vacations, but how many sites aren't full of pixie dusters who follow the company line of "on-site or don't bother". Not many. The common notion is that if you do not stay on site, you will not get the full experience, so folks decide to skip Disney and put that in the "would be nice one day" category, especially if they have already been before.

Basically, that's why we are seeing the return of the Orlando vacation option, as opposed to the WDW vacation where you may have previously slipped out for a day to hit Universal. Universal is becoming the cornerstone of that Orlando vacation, because they aren't pretending that they are the only game in town - they are why you are seeing the resurgence of "tourist" Orlando, things like the Eye, etc. - by the early 00's, those places were desolate because so few people who came for a theme park vacation left the walls of the WDW resort.

Increasingly, people are seeing two distinct options forming - because the message is, unless you are going to spend your entire vacation with them, and stay-on-site captive the entire time, Disney isn't interested in your business.

 

[seascape]

This is the part that those fewer in years seem to miss.

Eisner and Wells turned "Disney" into a premium brand decades ago.

Even in the 1970s, WDW was an expensive vacation for middle income families. Quoting from The Washington Post article:

The Polynesian Village Resort — one of Disney World’s first themed hotels, where rents started at about $29 (or $171 in today’s dollars)​

$171/night is not a cheap hotel in today's metro Orlando, where rates average about $121/night. Similarly, $29/night was pricey for most families back in the 1970s.

The difference with today is that whether a family was in the 50% or 90% income bracket, they received an outstanding experience for their $29/night back in the 1970s.

It doesn't matter if today's Disney is targeting only the top 20% of income earners. What truly matters is that Disney provides those Guests with premium experiences.

With higher prices comes higher expectations. Many of those spending thousands today last visited when crowds were 20% lower, when prices were 20% less. They know they are spending more today but most likely recall conditions that were less daunting than they are today.

For those higher prices, those Guests want premium experiences, the kind of experiences Universal delivers when staying at one of their Deluxe resorts: well maintained (and priced) hotels, conveniently close to the theme parks, with unlimited express line access. Tack on exciting, new attractions and it's Universal, not WDW, that's doing a better job of providing a "premium" theme park experience today. That's why Universal's Theme Parks revenue was up 33.7% last quarter (a number Disney hasn't seen since the opening of Epcot more than 30 years ago) while Disney's domestic Parks & Resorts revenue was up a modest 8.2%.

Disney cannot afford to alienate these consumers. The experiences they have this year will influence their vacation decisions for years to come. Disney needs to invest in order to provide its Guests with the premium experiences they are paying for.

Universal's revenue were up so much because Cabana Bay. Now that its been open for a full year the rate of increase will be much lower.

As for ticket prices and hotel rates I started to wonder this, inflation is one thing but family size also matters. So I would like to know if family size is taken into account and the cost savings for having less children is either Disney or Universal over priced. In other words since parents are no longer paying for 4 children like most of my friends and are only 1 or 2 children households do parents take that into account on their vacation spending.

 

[BernardandBianca]

And "Soarin" being replaced with "The Rescuers" but with a new effects such as water spraying at you during flying scenes and guests of winding blowing in you're face when you pass by fireworks. To be honest, that idea sounds awesome! You can even meet Bianca and Bernard in "The Land" Pavilion.

We do not do meet and greets!

 

[Goofyernmost]

Even at 2000 prices (parking, tickets, meals, lodging, extras and gas) do not add up to $124 per day.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but, this is 2015 and the prices are what they are today, not 15 years ago. The only thing that I forgot to mention is that my tickets were pre-purchased 10 day park hoppers, with no expiration. I paid $600.00 for it. $600.00 divided by 10 is $60.00 per day. The other $64.00 per day covered the rest of it. It's a whole lot cheaper for everything offsite.

 

[Nmoody1]

In response to the stuff about Disney pricing out the middle classes:

The entry fee may be flipping high, by any measurement, but there is still a massive variation in spend among guests even after that fee. Bluntly put, for some the entry fees will be their biggest cost of a WDW vacation, while for others it'll simply be a rounding error on their vacation budget as a whole.

A WDW vacation is one of the most segmented products I've seen. Which raises a question: I completely understand why Disney doesn't raise the price of dining to astronomical levels (given how quickly restaurants book out). The appeal of the DDP to be able to have a free meal at Be Our Guest, a restaurant you probably won't be able to get into, to eat a meal you won't like even if by some miracle you do get in, is a huge driver for on site stays which is worth more than the slight increase that the "market rate" of the restaurants would get them. But given what a cash cow paid-Fastpass is for other parks around the world, how come Disney has yet to follow that path? I guess they're terrified of losing the business of people who feel priced out of a good experience, but you have to question why they're worried about that if their main motivation is to price out the middle classes and maximise short-term $'s.

Dining prices are astronomical - maybe not on paper (depending on your income) but certainly in value compared with the price you pay for the quality of food you get... See Rebel Hanger with QS food at table service prices, see Be Our Guest and their menu that launched several weeks after its debut... The menu more for the dining plan crowd. I'm sure that come December we'll be able to add the jungle cruise restaurant to this list of poor quality food with high end prices!

 

[Funmeister]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but, this is 2015 and the prices are what they are today, not 15 years ago. The only thing that I forgot to mention is that my tickets were pre-purchased 10 day park hoppers, with no expiration. I paid $600.00 for it. $600.00 divided by 10 is $60.00 per day. The other $64.00 per day covered the rest of it. It's a whole lot cheaper for everything offsite.

Yeah...you did forget to mention a few details.

 

[Goofyernmost]

To be fair, Disney does not make this easy to understand. This is what I was talking about above - ever since the introduction of MYW and the ME and all that jazz, Disney has done everything possible to make you think that the only way to properly do WDW is to stay on site. Now with MM+, etc. - even more so. When you go to the website, like most people do when thinking about a vacation, they have no idea how slanted all the information is and that so many of the "benefits" of staying on property are BS. It's like there is no greater Orlando past DTD (and even those hotels they don't push nearly like they used to).

Like always, it's information which is the difficult part. Sure, folks need to be responsible to research vacations, but how many sites aren't full of pixie dusters who follow the company line of "on-site or don't bother". Not many. The common notion is that if you do not stay on site, you will not get the full experience, so folks decide to skip Disney and put that in the "would be nice one day" category, especially if they have already been before.

Basically, that's why we are seeing the return of the Orlando vacation option, as opposed to the WDW vacation where you may have previously slipped out for a day to hit Universal. Universal is becoming the cornerstone of that Orlando vacation, because they aren't pretending that they are the only game in town - they are why you are seeing the resurgence of "tourist" Orlando, things like the Eye, etc. - by the early 00's, those places were desolate because so few people who came for a theme park vacation left the walls of the WDW resort.

Increasingly, people are seeing two distinct options forming - because the message is, unless you are going to spend your entire vacation with them, and stay-on-site captive the entire time, Disney isn't interested in your business.

Well, some of us consistently try to get that information out there. Some refuse to acknowledge that the humungous cost for a night in the hotel is used mostly when you are asleep and you get the same experience of sleeping even if you slept in your car, except you might have more room... in your car.

I don't know how interested that they are in my business, but, they get it anyway. Once I am inside the parks the CM's don't know if I paid $1000.00 dollars a day to be there of $60.00 a day. I get treated exactly the same. So, that's what I do.

 

[Mike S]

To be fair, Disney does not make this easy to understand. This is what I was talking about above - ever since the introduction of MYW and the ME and all that jazz, Disney has done everything possible to make you think that the only way to properly do WDW is to stay on site. Now with MM+, etc. - even more so. When you go to the website, like most people do when thinking about a vacation, they have no idea how slanted all the information is and that so many of the "benefits" of staying on property are BS. It's like there is no greater Orlando past DTD (and even those hotels they don't push nearly like they used to).

Like always, it's information which is the difficult part. Sure, folks need to be responsible to research vacations, but how many sites aren't full of pixie dusters who follow the company line of "on-site or don't bother". Not many. The common notion is that if you do not stay on site, you will not get the full experience, so folks decide to skip Disney and put that in the "would be nice one day" category, especially if they have already been before.

Basically, that's why we are seeing the return of the Orlando vacation option, as opposed to the WDW vacation where you may have previously slipped out for a day to hit Universal. Universal is becoming the cornerstone of that Orlando vacation, because they aren't pretending that they are the only game in town - they are why you are seeing the resurgence of "tourist" Orlando, things like the Eye, etc. - by the early 00's, those places were desolate because so few people who came for a theme park vacation left the walls of the WDW resort.

Increasingly, people are seeing two distinct options forming - because the message is, unless you are going to spend your entire vacation with them, and stay-on-site captive the entire time, Disney isn't interested in your business.

Ads like this don't help either.

 

[BernardandBianca]

Without reading the posts above page 101, I would like to add a few comments based on three visits this past weekend (3 days):

Star Wars weekends was fine, and crowded, and Frank Oz was really a joy - saw him in person on Friday, and via the "hub" screen on Saturday. Watching people was the funnest part of the visit, people really go all out for these.

Pricing has now moved on - beverages are now $3.25/drink, up from $2.75 (though I will admit water has stayed at $2.75). Greed has overcome. Even Mickey bars are now $4.25. Location, location, location.

The Studio Bench patrol has attacked - all the benches on Hollywood Blvd. from Sunset Blvd. to the stage have been removed, they really do not want people sitting. We even complained to the folks in the Control Booth that they're blocking access to wall sitting, and they laughed.

And on a more pertinent note, I support WDW1974 in that this is not his job, and this is not a lawsuit, so whatever he wants to give us is pure gift, and whether or not you want to believe him is your decision but he is under absolutely no obligation to "prove" anything. This is an internet forum and what you get is what you are entitled to, and nothing more. For me, based on track record, I tend to believe what he says, but I expect nothing more because I am not PAYING for anything more.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Universal's revenue were up so much because Cabana Bay. Now that its been open for a full year the rate of increase will be much lower.

Cabana Bay is operated by Loews in partnership with Universal, the two sharing income.

Quoting from Universal's most recent 10K:

Theme Parks revenue increased for the three months ended March 31, 2015 compared to the same period in 2014 primarily due to higher guest attendance and an increase in per capita spending as a result of the continued success of our attractions, including The Wizarding World of Harry Potter ™— Diagon Alley ™ in Orlando, which opened in July 2014, and Despicable Me: Minion Mayhem in Hollywood, which opened in April 2014.
​

Quoting from Universal's earnings call:

But the biggest highlight of all may have been at the theme parks where among other drivers the continued enormous success of our new Harry Potter attractions in Orlando contribute to over 50% growth in operating cash flow in the first quarter. Notably to experience the full breadth of attractions in both our parks in Orlando, Universal Studios Florida and Islands of Adventure, nearly 80% of visitors chose the higher value Park to Park tickets. Additionally, sales of season passes were at an all-time high.​

...​

Our Theme Parks had another remarkable quarter as revenue grew 33.7% to $651 million and operating cash flow increased 54.6% to $263 million reflecting higher guest attendance and per capita spending at both parks. Orlando is experiencing tremendous growth from the continued momentum of Harry Potter Diagon Alley which opened last summer.

The increases in attendance per capita and park to park it ticket sales have accelerated Orlando's operating cash flow growth. At the same time, the Despicable Me attraction continues to drive healthy attendance in per capita increases at the Hollywood Park.
​

Overwhelmingly, Universal's growth is a result from what happened inside the theme parks.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yeah...you did forget to mention a few details.

That's the only thing I left out and I purchased those tickets in 2011. Even today a three day park hopper would be about $40.00 per day more so round that number up to $744.00 That's still cheaper then staying onsite by handfuls.

 

[BernardandBianca]

We were relaxing in the rocking chairs outside the exit of Hall of Presidents today (one of the few "benches" available in the MK), and were discussing the first time we came to WDW. In 1978, you could get an unlimited passport for $18/day. So for our family of 4, it was less than $100/day for tickets (substantially less). We were looking at people walking by, and wondered how they can afford today's prices? It seems unbelievable.

And on a totally unrelated topic, the music in this area is completely and totally inappropriate. The music is Sousa marches (circa 1900s), and not even close to Revolutionary Period music. The lack of concern for authenticity is complete. (We've complained about this to suits and at GR, and nobody cares.)

 

[WDW1974]

Just a thought ... but maybe the crazies could head over to that way kewl thread on all-new Tomorrowland and Frontierlands coming to the MK in time for the 50th ... in six years.

Don't worry, you'll have cupcakes and pins and a meet up with Cupcake to hold you over from the fact TDO will utterly ignore WDW's 45th next year. What would the theme be anyway: Celebrating 20 Years of Stagnation?

Oh, but thanks to the extra 200-300 pages of fluff, we are now over 1,000 pages because no one reads these threads and anyone could start them and keep them going. You aren't helping me, you are helping @wdwmagic and the site, so that's MAGICal!

Keep it up because this is almost certainly (always leave an out) the last!

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Weekend China Musing:

Any of you familiar with the Disney Newsreel? It's a publication, usually about eight pages, of glossy inhouse PR for Disney employees. More at the corporate level. It's company wide, unlike WDW's Eyes and Ears or DL's Disneyland Line.

This week's edition had a page blurb on the opening of the Shanghai Disney Store and the topping off of Storybook Castle. What didn't it have? Do you really need to ask?

It didn't have one picture of Bob Iger or Tom Staggs at those events. Now, yes, I know the BS excuses thrown out by people here for various reasons (you'd have to ask them what their agendas are) about not wanting to wave their big American (blanks) in the faces of their Chinese partners and play it so cool you wouldn't have even known they were there.

But what's the excuse from not having photos for an in-house cast only publication, one that likely isn't available anywhere in China? And certainly not available to the public.

I've got my ideas. But I love watching people digging holes for themselves. I've found it makes things so much easier when you hit them over the head and push them in as you aren't winded from all that digging!

EDIT: Should have said NEW photo. The one pic that Disney was supposed to not release with Bob and the Stormtrooper was in the issue.

Second EDIT: Which really didn't require a first edit since the picture could have been taken anytime (it wasn't), but it was not taken as part of the opening celebration.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Spirited Weekend China Musing:

Any of you familiar with the Disney Newsreel? It's a publication, usually about eight pages, of glossy inhouse PR for Disney employees. More at the corporate level. It's company wide, unlike WDW's Eyes and Ears or DL's Disneyland Line.

This week's edition had a page blurb on the opening of the Shanghai Disney Store and the topping off of Storybook Castle. What didn't it have? Do you really need to ask?

It didn't have one picture of Bob Iger or Tom Staggs at those events. Now, yes, I know the BS excuses thrown out by people here for various reasons (you'd have to ask them what their agendas are) about not wanting to wave their big American (blanks) in the faces of their Chinese partners and play it so cool you wouldn't have even known they were there.

But what's the excuse from not having photos for an in-house cast only publication, one that likely isn't available anywhere in China? And certainly not available to the public.

I've got my ideas. But I love watching people digging holes for themselves. I've found it makes things so much easier when you hit them over the head and push them in as you aren't winded from all that digging!

Nobody with half a brain would trust Disney to keep such things internal.