A Spirited Perfect Ten

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I apologize as this thing has probably been covered extensively, but this thread is too cluttered and busy to navigate. (And for good reason.) But what sort of things (obviously asking vague, big picture concepts, not details) from SDL is TWDC intent on covering up?

That Darth Iger went into China and instead of being in front of the cameras and making sure he was the stereotypical "Look at Me!" American White Guy coming to save the Chinese people, he didn't appear because he didn't have the cajones to force himself into the spotlight. Stupid Darth Iger not understanding how business is done in China.

Oh, scratch that...actually, now it's Darth Iger went into China, chest puffed, thinking he was Mister Man and expecting to be in the center of everything, but then the Chinese had to whip him and "detain" him at his hotel so he couldn't be in the spotlight. Stupid Darth Iger not understanding how business is done in China.

That's it. And apparently, now that it's been reviewed by journalists, they were able to be bought off from the story of the century for a story about the Frozen attraction.

And now you are up to speed.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Spirit approaches his reporting as if he were being held to high journalistic standards. Most of what he puts out, especially anything involving China, has been vetted with at least three separate sources. This is very carefully thought out. Whether some folks choose to understand or appreciate this is up to those who question the quality of the reporting.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
But that's like offering someone with a big juicy steak dinner with all the fixins', a couple of quickly forgotten peanuts instead.

It may totally be the case, but I'm not ready to jump to that conclusion because it fits in with the already shaky narrative.

You're assuming its peanuts. Could be that Ben started digging around. After what happened with FIFA, you really want a WSJ journalist chasing down a missing $800M thats rumored to be graft? Even the mere appearance of impropriety is insanely bad.

So in the business journalism world, you throw him a bone. You give him an exclusive in order to hold him off on China and likely promise that when its time to talk China, he's first in line. Of course, that timeframe will expire at some point.
 

bcoachable

Well-Known Member
The question I have at this point is that what is Disney to do about the situation?
Pretty tough chess game at this point for Disney... How do you play next? The BofD may even know... but what are you going to do now? Got to figure out a way to save face. What impact does this have on our country as a whole...
 

DDLand

Well-Known Member
Spirited Frozen Ever After Musings:

First, let's talk about the Big Picture stuff, the stuff you don't know and that a good 14% won't believe on principle and another four percent simply because it is coming from moi.

I and at LEAST three other members of this forum (two who post regularly, one who lurks) have been in contact with Ben Fritz of the Wall Street Journal about our concerns and issues with what is and isn't being reported from Shanghai regarding Disney's developments in the Chinese Mainland. He has been very professional. He has taken as much information as he could possibly gather. He has said all the right things. ...

And then he went directly to Disney in Burbank, likely to the Zenia Mucha level, brought the issues up, suggested that he might be interested in writing about them and ... and ... then he was offered a Frozen Ever After exclusive (yes, Disney leaked the story before it appeared on their own blog). Now, I'm sure the 'anti-reality' crowd will point out that this was coincidental and can easily be explained away. And that Disney, which is so secretive it won't release any details at all on what is being built in Shanghai Disneyland, only the most important P&R development of the century, or what's going to be in Pandora ... or what the company will be building based on Star Wars on both coasts or Marvel in Anaheim or pretty much anything else anywhere somehow saw the need to DESCRIBE THE ENTIRE RIDE (every scene) to the Wall Street Freaking Journal.

(BTW, the show by show scene component is STILL an exclusive to the WSJ as Disney hasn't put it on its own Blog.)

When has that ever happened? Seriously? When has Disney given the WSJ of all organizations (or any for that matter) a blow by blow complete description of a new attraction? And you really think your other ''I don't hate Iger, so I see this clearly unlike the Spirit'' theory holds enough water to put into a thimble? Don't waste your breath.

To my friends who have been in contact with Big Tool Ben, be grateful that you helped him get an exclusive after all. And likely a free Disney vacation for him and his family ...maybe a future one-on-one with Bob before Star Wars opens in December too. No, I never said you wouldn't get results. You did! How does it make you feel?

Like I've said umpteenth times, that's what journalism is in the 21st century. Regardless of who signs his paychecks, Ben Fritz works for The Walt Disney Company.

Now, I read all of those funny comments (except one or two by some crazy Phil character) on Cupcake's Disney Parks Blog. No, I don't think they left an intern in charge. I think they flat out let the comments in to sorta shut up the weak folks on the ropes about whether Disney plays dirty (filthy would be more like it). The thinking goes ''See, Disney is letting all these EPCOT fanbois stuck in the 80s say whatever they want. They don't censor anything there anymore than Bob had his wife censor that Redstone Disney-Hater in the HuffPo.''

Yes, I REALLY believe that. I get how these companies operate, while the naivete of some here is astounding.

What else can be said? I guess I could rip the ride for being exactly what I expected, exactly what I told you it would be -- a cheap overlay with LET IT GO played loudly over and over. But why? It will drastically cut the waits for Soarin come next year. It will move even more crap merchandise.

I also can't help but feel that certain events ... well, let's just say that school is out for summer and it shows as much as a melting snowman and a planted story growing in clickcounts (ones that the WSJ would never get) as the night goes on.
Whoa, that's powerful stuff. Thanks for sharing that information. Well any doubts I had are now officially out the window on the Shanghai stuff. It's depressing that this is the way things played out. I know you're not at liberty to discuss who you've talked to, but are there any other promising publications or is it a deadend from here on out?

Though it seems like at the rate things are going any of those authors will be getting exclusives soon too. Anyone excited about the Avatar leaks? Oh, and if there's a really damaging story they may even get a piece of news on Star Wars!
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I apologize as this thing has probably been covered extensively, but this thread is too cluttered and busy to navigate. (And for good reason.) But what sort of things (obviously asking vague, big picture concepts, not details) from SDL is TWDC intent on covering up?
Well, it seems as if China is pulling a fast one on Iger and stealing the "Brand"
(did I sum it up quicker?)

I tried to do a Sum-up/Why should we care about four pages ago. Here it is.

So no one is trying to "steal a brand" or the castle.... not yet anyways.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
The question I have at this point is that what is Disney to do about the situation?
Pretty tough chess game at this point for Disney... How do you play next? The BofD may even know... but what are you going to do now? Got to figure out a way to save face. What impact does this have on our country as a whole...

Its actually pretty simple. You need some serious high level diplomacy. Its fixable... at the moment. Its just going to have to start with bridge building and an understanding of the Chinese Culture and the how business is done over there.

Because entering the market like Uncultured Americans from Wall Street, pushing people around because thats what your company has always done, simply does not play in China. Disney may be the 800 pound gorilla but this is the Dragon they're dealing with.
 

StageFrenzy

Well-Known Member
At least the first WSJ article tried to tie the ride into an overall story about franchise leverage. The scene-by-scene breakdown? Putting that in a (still somewhat) respectable business paper just looks tacky. Like bringing your wife to the Oscars in a dress that looks like it was bought at Hot Topic.

The Parks Blog would have been a much better location.
I kind of like the Orphan Black clothing...
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
You're assuming its peanuts. Could be that Ben started digging around. After what happened with FIFA, you really want a WSJ journalist chasing down a missing $800M thats rumored to be graft? Even the mere appearance of impropriety is insanely bad.

So in the business journalism world, you throw him a bone. You give him an exclusive in order to hold him off on China and likely promise that when its time to talk China, he's first in line. Of course, that timeframe will expire at some point.

No, I'm saying the Frozen story is peanuts. Even the fact that it lists all the show scenes. Such a tiny percentage of folks will ever read that article, much less remember it, so it's really not so crazy as folks are thinking. It's not big world news.

But OK, that journalist was able to be "bought" - what about all the other ones that supposedly inquired about this information? Did they get bought off, too? Should we be expecting a spate of articles about what the Avatar and Star Wars expansions are going to be, from them?

Hey, maybe there is a point to this after all, LOL.

It all seems really...convenient, though. I called that this would be the convenient way out when the articles about this epic failure of Darth Iger didn't appear.

I don't know - it all could be true, it all could be a bunch of nothing, dots strung together into a random pattern of nothingness that only the creator can see. But like I said, the accusations have now escalated - and are, rapidly - we have a journalist called out by name with allegations of kickbacks, we have a massive scandal that if true could be affecting the stock price of the WDC - this is no longer "let's prove Darth Iger is an idiot" - the heels are dug in so deep now they are half-way to China themselves.

If I had proof of all this information, I wouldn't be bothering trying to convince folks on a message board - I'd be contacting every famous or influential person I claimed I knew, I'd be contacting the SEC, I'd be laying out the evidence in a far easier to read manner than having to sift through a 950-page message board thread on a fan site, and I'd be pushing it to the highest levels until someone listened. I wouldn't be concerned with trading barbs and passive aggressive insults with people that I just thought were too dumb to understand.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
No, I'm saying the Frozen story is peanuts. Even the fact that it lists all the show scenes. Such a tiny percentage of folks will ever read that article, much less remember it, so it's really not so crazy as folks are thinking. It's not big world news.

But OK, that journalist was able to be "bought" - what about all the other ones that supposedly inquired about this information? Did they get bought off, too? Should we be expecting a spate of articles about what the Avatar and Star Wars expansions are going to be, from them?

Hey, maybe there is a point to this after all, LOL.

It all seems really...convenient, though. I called that this would be the convenient way out when the articles about this epic failure of Darth Iger didn't appear.

I don't know - it all could be true, it all could be a bunch of nothing, dots strung together into a random pattern of nothingness that only the creator can see. But like I said, the accusations have now escalated - and are, rapidly - we have a journalist called out by name with allegations of kickbacks, we have a massive scandal that if true could be affecting the stock price of the WDC - this is no longer "let's prove Darth Iger is an idiot" - the heels are dug in so deep now they are half-way to China themselves.

If I had proof of all this information, I wouldn't be bothering trying to convince folks on a message board - I'd be contacting every famous or influential person I knew, I'd be contacting the SEC, I'd be laying out the evidence in a far easier to read manner than having to sift through a 950-page message board thread on a fan site, and I'd be pushing it to the highest levels until someone listened. I wouldn't be concerned with trading barbs and passive aggressive insults with people that I just thought were too dumb to understand.

Hey, it makes sense to me. I'm open for ideas and plausible explanations that go deeper than Phil's "China doesn't like the West."

And thats not a journalist being "bought".... thats how business at these levels is done. Thats how business journalism is done at these levels. Its about access to the power figures. And its not just the WSJ, its everywhere.
 

ItlngrlBella

Well-Known Member

1023

Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
Hey, it makes sense to me. I'm open for ideas and plausible explanations that go deeper than Phil's "China doesn't like the West."

And thats not a journalist being "bought".... thats how business at these levels is done. Thats how business journalism is done at these levels. Its about access to the power figures. And its not just the WSJ, its everywhere.

As a Side Note....
I can be bought.... Uncle Bob hasn't offered me enough yet though...

*1023*
 

Prog

Well-Known Member
I tried to do a Sum-up/Why should we care about four pages ago. Here it is.

So no one is trying to "steal a brand" or the castle.... not yet anyways.
Okay, thanks Dave. I read that post but the first time I read it I was distracted by the first part.
So, if I am understanding this correctly, TWDC has sunk >$5B into an eastern hemisphere WDW, but they aren't really taking control of the project itself or properly adapting the Disney Resort model to better suit Chinese business culture. They're setting themselves up to debut a flop of expensive proportions that could have a major effect all around TWDC, and this time without Roy E. to save the day.
Is this accurate to an extent?
 

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
-The $800mil injection was first announced by Iger [paraphrased]: 'We are confidently expanding the park's opening day offerings to make SDL even more of a success with the Chinese audience.'

-The park master plan has been published on Chinese govt. websites (or leaked) since the pre-construction phase, so coupling that with satellite imagery/drone flyovers, it is possible to trace any changes in the park menu/plan (i.e., Toy Story Playland is not under construction. Yay!).

-For years, word has trickled out -anonymously- from WDI onsite about greater-than-usual challenges with the Chinese subcontractors, typically involving substandard work and re-builds. This would lead to much greater than normal cost-overruns.

-When pressed about the $800 by Kramer on Mad Money in Feb(?), Iger backed off confirming it was for additional attractions.

My guess is that some of the $800 might be allocated for the minor expansion build-outs seen in the Expanded Plan (minus Toy Story), but the vast majority is due to excessive over-runs. Rather than raise red flags or insult the Chinese partners by pointing to their shoddy workmanship, Iger said all the $800 was for additional park content.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Okay, thanks Dave. I read that post but the first time I read it I was distracted by the first part.
So, if I am understanding this correctly, TWDC has sunk >$5B into an eastern hemisphere WDW, but they aren't really taking control of the project itself or properly adapting the Disney Resort model to better suit Chinese business culture. They're setting themselves up to debut a flop of expensive proportions that could have a major effect all around TWDC, and this time without Roy E. to save the day.
Is this accurate to an extent?

The way I understand it, yes.
 

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