A Spirited Perfect Ten

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
I'm not telling you how I feel - I'm was explaining the thought processes that go on with those that purchase and are enticed by "limited edition" items. It's heavily psychological, a very large industry - one that Disney has clearly capitalized on in it's parks.

@PhotoDave219 is absolutely correct - in addition to the limited edition stuff (which does benefit somewhat from high resale prices, but as I said to begin with - it's a fine line to walk with folks that crazy to be interested in the first place), even just in general - it is not in Disney's best interest for folks to be hawking their wares at inflated resale prices for all sorts of reasons.

If you have $150 to spend on Disney merchandise, and you buy an item from someone for $150 that the WDC got $100 for, that's $50 of spending on Disney merchandise that Disney could have gotten. It also can leave a false impression when the consumer doesn't understand that the reason the items are so over-overpriced is because of the scalper selling it to you - yes, their own fault for being dumb, but the effect and perception back on the Disney brand stays the same nonetheless. No one ever claimed consumers were smart or savvy.

That's how it's looked at from a retail perspective. I agree, it's not the end of the world - it's one of those annoying gnats that the Internet has brought us. If it were up to Disney, it probably would not exist. It's not, so it happens.

I would say the people who are buying the LE stuff online are probably people who are not able to get to the park to get it themselves or feel it is going to go out of stock before they get there. (God help them) Collectors prefer to buy them in the parks because that is part of the experience for them unless they are unable to physically get there to make the purchase.

I agree that Disney would rather get the money but it is not enough money to justify them to really do anything about it. Not to mention the potential negative bad press associated with it. The same reason they stopped going after child care facilities with Mickey Mouse painted on the outside of the building.

I personally would never buy from any of these online parasites but do not see Diseny doing anything about it. THey will look the other way the same way they do with bloggers that tend to cross the line from time to time.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
@AEfx the model isn't dead... The reason you don't see more of it is because of what Disney demands. You blame the market - I blame the seller.

The market isn't dead... You just have a seller who thinks they are worth more than they are

I'm blaming Disney for being so arrogant and needing a "sponsorship" for every attraction at Epcot to begin with.

I never stated anything about a the general market or the general concept of sponsorship being dead anywhere but WDW.

Sponsorship is done to give a benefit to the sponsor. Sponsors do not see benefits commensurate with the financial investments required to be a Disney sponsor.

You and I do not disagree, which is why I don't understand why the argument in the first place.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
I'm not telling you how I feel - I'm was explaining the thought processes that go on with those that purchase and are enticed by "limited edition" items. It's heavily psychological, a very large industry - one that Disney has clearly capitalized on in it's parks.

@PhotoDave219 is absolutely correct - in addition to the limited edition stuff (which does benefit somewhat from high resale prices, but as I said to begin with - it's a fine line to walk with folks that crazy to be interested in the first place), even just in general - it is not in Disney's best interest for folks to be hawking their wares at inflated resale prices for all sorts of reasons.

If you have $150 to spend on Disney merchandise, and you buy an item from someone for $150 that the WDC got $100 for, that's $50 of spending on Disney merchandise that Disney could have gotten. It also can leave a false impression when the consumer doesn't understand that the reason the items are so over-overpriced is because of the scalper selling it to you - yes, their own fault for being dumb, but the effect and perception back on the Disney brand stays the same nonetheless. No one ever claimed consumers were smart or savvy.

That's how it's looked at from a retail perspective. I agree, it's not the end of the world - it's one of those annoying gnats that the Internet has brought us. If it were up to Disney, it probably would not exist. It's not, so it happens.
This is exactly why Disney started charging $250 to buy SWW stuff a day early - to get their cut
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
This is exactly why Disney started charging $250 to buy SWW stuff a day early - to get their cut

Of course, because all that probably did was was attract the super-scalpers who truly make a business out of it, who then just amortized the cost into a further mark-up on the items they sell as another cost of doing business.

It's a vicious cycle, much like SDCC - which really has become not much more than a merchandising event itself.

That said, while the collecting community usually comes down heavily on the side of the scalper, it's difficult to blame them. It's capitalism at work. Everyone is to "blame" - including the collectors themselves who can't admit that the reason the prices are so high is because people want the items enough to pay that for them.

It's a racket, but all the players in the game come willingly to the table. "Limited Edition" doesn't attract me, but unique items have before - but at least I realize what is happening, and I'm smart enough to wait until the prices go down which generally they do. In the rare cases when they don't, I have no problem just saying "I'm all set" LOL. I think when folks get so upset about resellers they really are most upset with themselves that they can't do that.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I was responding to questions about this right here regarding the Yeti...

I do believe it was a joke someone posted - I think I found the post about the Imagineer BS I was confusing it with:

I had the chance to meet an Imagineer onboard the Disney Fantasy last month. He did a Q&A session, taking questions (sometimes embarrassingly bad ones!) from the audience. I decided it would be rude to ask about the Yeti in front of everyone, so I waited until the session was over and approached him privately. I just asked what was up and would the Yeti ever move again? He said that he knew about term Disco Yeti and insisted that he does, in fact, have motion. I thanked him for his time and wandered off thinking that it was total BS. Then again, it was probably in poor taste of me to ask at all.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Know how we've discussed merchandise policy & the eBay'rs before?

I came across this site -> http://www.magicalearscollectibles.com/ And it seems to sell nothing but Disney Merchandise, including limited/special edition stuff. Appears to be directly competing with the Disney Store's Park Merchandise, with quite a nasty markup.

You would think Disney Legal would be on it. (Lurkers, this is where you screengrab that site and send to your boss)
That site is counterfeit or real stuff?
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I was at a dinner part last night with friends who live in an entirely different (upper class) financial world than my wife and I. The discussion came up about Orlando and Disney vs Universal. Almost all of us had been to WDW at least once. The most vocal guest piped up, "If I ever went to Orlando again, I'd do Universal and call it good. Epcot? (shrug) Nothing worth seeing anymore." No mention of MK or the other Disney parks. Nodded heads all around.
Its interesting if that mentality keeps spreading.
The only ones feeding WDW will be the out of town visitors.. and those can dry up pretty fast if the economy outlook or security outlook changes.

Here's where I have a problem with it: When you're a guest and you are there to purchase a limited or popular item and instead its been purchased by people like this, for resale on the internet. So you walk away missing that one thing you wanted while these people are making money off it.

That is.. honestly.. way too common Dave.
I've seen that behaviour EVERY .. SINGLE... TIME.. there is a "limited edition" collectible.
150 posters only of Ratchet and Clank? 10 of them went to a reseller (the cap limit)
and then the guy used family, friends..etc.. to get 40.
Then sold them on ebay at 10x markup.

How about a Garrus Vakarian exclusive limited (500 units with a cap of 1 per household?) statue?
they sold for 500-750 USD, and marked up on ebay for 1,500+.

TMNT statues might be on the same road...
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
When you flood the market with "limited edition" items I hardly consider them "limited edition."

I will admit there are some true limited edition items. I am not going to debate this but if you feel by something having the label "limited edition" on it makes it special you play right into their game.

The amount of LE pins and crap I have seen through discount outlets and property control proves this point. Why would any department pay for LE merchandise for giveaways to guests and clients if it was selling? Oh...it wasn't. Because it wasn't a LE specialty item. It was labeled LE to create flase buzz to sell it. Same concept of why the add FP to attractions that don't need it.

Once again...this is not all LE merchandise.
hah! good one.
I remember quite a few times when stores say "limited edition" .
Like these "Magic Brasieres" they sell in TV. "Limited number of boxes.. call now!"
Limited to what? 3 million? 50 million? the factory limit?
Because 3 years after.. they are still "limited".

Also, didnt Disney get caught with this bs?
selling "limited" edition.. and they were well above the 100,000 units?

I said it's ok UNLESS a cm is doing it
Dont CMS have a limit on purchasing merchandise?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I'm blaming Disney for being so arrogant and needing a "sponsorship" for every attraction at Epcot to begin with.

I never stated anything about a the general market or the general concept of sponsorship being dead anywhere but WDW.

The problem is the way you commented was as if disney should just give up on the concept all together because the idea is dead... Vs disney trying to fix it because the opportunity is there but they are failing to capitalize on it.

Your statements were akin to "this menu item isn't selling... Obviously the resturant business is dead so we should just stop trying".... Instead of asking yourself... Is the item any good? Is it priced right? How are the alternatives doing?

You jump to huge generalized statements which complete derail what you are actually trying to communicate.

The majorIty of corporate sponsorships are about capitalizing - not fiscal need. Like you said, this isnt 1955 anymore and disney is not seeking investment partners. But disney hasnt since the 60s... Since then its always been a selfserving model to get someone else to foot part of the bill. Disney still simply sells tagline rights and other general advertising sponsorships (think bounty in the restrooms)... None of this is "dead" nor is the opportunity to get partnerships. Disney is just dated in the notion they think they can demand top shelf advertising opportunities now vs the new world we live in of direct consumption and online exposure. The lanscape has changed and disney needs to adapt its model to fit
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
The problem is the way you commented was as if disney should just give up on the concept all together because the idea is dead... Vs disney trying to fix it because the opportunity is there but they are failing to capitalize on it.

Well, I do disagree with you there.

Unless it's tied into wanting Disney to offer their product and part of a larger deal (i.e. Coke), I don't think it benefits most companies to do so. We have Norway's tourism board on record saying that's why they didn't renew - they saw no tourism uptick from it. I'm sure the story has been similar with other entities in other countries - it was seen as part "oh we need to be a part of this before all the spots are gone" and "this will increase tourism dollars".

I believe the only reason Disney got away with it EPCOT, particularly Future World, so much in the early days was simply because of the cultural/media cache around the concept of the park (a year-round ultimate World's Fair). It was never about the people in the parks actually being exposed to the "partnership" as a type of advertising, like most sponsorships (NFL, as you mentioned), it was about being able to put out a press release showing that they were associated with this forward-looking project called EPCOT. And a nice perk to be able to offer private lounges to impress business associates and possible investors. Basically, it looked good on paper.

If it were about direct advertising, like the sponsorships you are talking about - companies like Siemens or Raytheon who don't sell products to consumers would never have signed on.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I'm just taking this from the guest perspective. What if you're from bumchuck Iowa and you're hear for the first time and your little daughter wants that one thing and instead some eBay'r just bought the final 35 all at once? How is that fair? How is that Disneylike by any stretch of the imagination?

Not fair, but capitalism. Doesn't mean I think it's right, but I think it's one of the "if you want to believe in this ideal, you have to believe in it all the way".

When we are talking about Disney, pretty much considered the height of "crass commercialism" - it's not surprising. I mean this is a company that actually calls a merchandising event a "Merchandising Event" and has the cajones to charge people large sums of money to attend them so they can spend $500 each on little "collectable" statues.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Alright, home. So Soda Fountain. There's some weird interconnection with Ghirardelli now, so it's now the Disney Studio Store Hollywood & Ghirardelli Soda Fountain, I just will refer to it at "DSF."

So when DSF opened in 2005, they started selling a small collection of pins, being that pins were the trinket of choice for Disney to hawk at the time. And they started selling them in the quantities that the parks did, so LE 1000 and above. Well, being the store was small, a long way from the park, and in Hollywood, it didn't really get a lot of traffic, so they started bringing sales back down to match demand. A smart thing at the time. So edition sizes came down to LE150-LE300 per pin. Even at that price, many things hung around so, if you were a pin collector that lived out of the area, after 2 weeks or 30 days, you could call up, and get what you wanted shipped to you. They also, to increase food sales, started offering something called a "Pin Trader's Delight" PTD's which was a sundae that came with a free pin of a character having some sort of ice cream treat. These were also LE300, and would take a month to sell out.

In the rest of the pin trading world, people were more focused on pins sold through Disney Auctions and DisneyShopping.com. Eventually Disney stopped producing pins through those venues, and people wanting to trade for the old stuff, needed a new LE source, and suddenly DSF was discovered. Things escalated quickly with lines forming for each release, and since people were there, they started buying the PTD's, so those started turning over in a week, then 3 days, then 1 day, then multiple times per day.

People started lining up overnight, and then they announced some stupid voucher system which didn't eliminate the line at all...instead people started lining up 3 days before the vouchers were released, and then had to come back the next day with their voucher. Yes, there were campouts for 3 days, in the middle of Hollywood for LE300 pins. And the manager would do nothing about it. They had to hire additional security, and fights would break out among the pin people, and the pin people and the homeless population. Knives were drawn. About the same time that, not associated with the pin thing, a tourist was killed and I'm guessing at that point DSF was told they had to do something. So now the system is the way that sports teams sell playoff tickets, or concert tickets sometimes. Everyone shows up the morning the pins are sold, everyone gets a voucher with a number on it, and then pins are sold in order of voucher number.

Back to the PTD pins (the free ones). Because these also could be flipped for a quick buck, people would bring their friends to buy multiples. People couldn't eat all the ice cream, so they started handing that out to the homeless people hanging outside. Then some people figured they could also pay the homeless people to get in line to and give them the pin. The biggest scalpers, would hang out all day in case the pin flipped to a more desirable character. It got to the point where if you WANTED to eat in the facility, the whole bloody point of offering them in the first place, you couldn't order one of these things because they were only selling them to the people in line. Once Ghirardelli took over they started instituting daily limits, and some crazy rules where they offer 4 pins at a time, and you can buy 2. The pins don't reset until all 4 are sold. This has limited the number of people that hang around the store all day, but they still exist.

So you would think with all of that going on, they would do the smart thing and increase the edition sizes, right? Well, not really. Many pins are still LE300. They do sell more LE400s and 500s and very, very occasionally a Frozen LE750 pin. The manager has been asked, and she's terrified that if they increase edition sizes that it will go back to the old days, where pins sat on a rack for months and had to be marked down to $4 a piece to get them to move. Since the bulk of the store's sales are made from the pins, she can't risk her gravy train coming to an end. Many of the people in line, are Ebay resellers and can't even identify the character or movie they are buying pins from. And here's an example of the ridiculousness. For the 2nd Frozen release, 1945 vouchers were handed out to purchase pins with LE sizes of 300, 400, 500 and 750. So most people that showed up, went home completely empty handed. What's that about dollars flying over their head?
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Dont CMS have a limit on purchasing merchandise?

Yes, they do. And with my mother being gone, I can talk about it. FIrst off, CM's are NEVER allowed to sell for profit. They technically aren't even supposed to trade for profit, but with pin trading, which Disney encourages, it gets tricky. If you shop at Cast Connection, signs are posted. Second, CM's can only use their discount to purchase like $6000 worth of a merchandise per year. I think it's 6K, it might be 8K, but I'm pretty sure it's 6K. And I know this because a couple of years after my Mom started working at WDW, her manager took her to an office above the Emporium to "discuss" her discount usage. Now, my parents were big Disneyana collectors before my Mom ever started working for Disney, and a lot of what they buy is higher end stuff. And they, also pin traded, so when they would have the sales of 70% off pins, they would go and buy a lot. So one year, my Mom got really close to that limit. WDW had print outs of everything she had bought that year, and would point to something on a list, and ask my Mom about it. My Mom was in merchandise so she could figure out what everything was, and answer their questions, and her manager was able to support her because he had been to their house and seen everything. My Mom also knew of Disney employees that did not pass their audit and were fired for violating the rules about reselling. I don't know how often they audit, but they do pay attention from time to time.
 

Frankie The Beer

Well-Known Member

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Alright, home. So Soda Fountain. There's some weird interconnection with Ghirardelli now, so it's now the Disney Studio Store Hollywood & Ghirardelli Soda Fountain, I just will refer to it at "DSF."

So when DSF opened in 2005, they started selling a small collection of pins, being that pins were the trinket of choice for Disney to hawk at the time. And they started selling them in the quantities that the parks did, so LE 1000 and above. Well, being the store was small, a long way from the park, and in Hollywood, it didn't really get a lot of traffic, so they started bringing sales back down to match demand. A smart thing at the time. So edition sizes came down to LE150-LE300 per pin. Even at that price, many things hung around so, if you were a pin collector that lived out of the area, after 2 weeks or 30 days, you could call up, and get what you wanted shipped to you. They also, to increase food sales, started offering something called a "Pin Trader's Delight" PTD's which was a sundae that came with a free pin of a character having some sort of ice cream treat. These were also LE300, and would take a month to sell out.

In the rest of the pin trading world, people were more focused on pins sold through Disney Auctions and DisneyShopping.com. Eventually Disney stopped producing pins through those venues, and people wanting to trade for the old stuff, needed a new LE source, and suddenly DSF was discovered. Things escalated quickly with lines forming for each release, and since people were there, they started buying the PTD's, so those started turning over in a week, then 3 days, then 1 day, then multiple times per day.

People started lining up overnight, and then they announced some stupid voucher system which didn't eliminate the line at all...instead people started lining up 3 days before the vouchers were released, and then had to come back the next day with their voucher. Yes, there were campouts for 3 days, in the middle of Hollywood for LE300 pins. And the manager would do nothing about it. They had to hire additional security, and fights would break out among the pin people, and the pin people and the homeless population. Knives were drawn. About the same time that, not associated with the pin thing, a tourist was killed and I'm guessing at that point DSF was told they had to do something. So now the system is the way that sports teams sell playoff tickets, or concert tickets sometimes. Everyone shows up the morning the pins are sold, everyone gets a voucher with a number on it, and then pins are sold in order of voucher number.

Back to the PTD pins (the free ones). Because these also could be flipped for a quick buck, people would bring their friends to buy multiples. People couldn't eat all the ice cream, so they started handing that out to the homeless people hanging outside. Then some people figured they could also pay the homeless people to get in line to and give them the pin. The biggest scalpers, would hang out all day in case the pin flipped to a more desirable character. It got to the point where if you WANTED to eat in the facility, the whole bloody point of offering them in the first place, you couldn't order one of these things because they were only selling them to the people in line. Once Ghirardelli took over they started instituting daily limits, and some crazy rules where they offer 4 pins at a time, and you can buy 2. The pins don't reset until all 4 are sold. This has limited the number of people that hang around the store all day, but they still exist.

So you would think with all of that going on, they would do the smart thing and increase the edition sizes, right? Well, not really. Many pins are still LE300. They do sell more LE400s and 500s and very, very occasionally a Frozen LE750 pin. The manager has been asked, and she's terrified that if they increase edition sizes that it will go back to the old days, where pins sat on a rack for months and had to be marked down to $4 a piece to get them to move. Since the bulk of the store's sales are made from the pins, she can't risk her gravy train coming to an end. Many of the people in line, are Ebay resellers and can't even identify the character or movie they are buying pins from. And here's an example of the ridiculousness. For the 2nd Frozen release, 1945 vouchers were handed out to purchase pins with LE sizes of 300, 400, 500 and 750. So most people that showed up, went home completely empty handed. What's that about dollars flying over their head?
Absolutely nuts.
 

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