A Spirited Perfect Ten

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I'm not sure I follow.

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with running four theme parks of differing size, purpose, and popularity?

Disney didn't build four theme parks with the aim of having three lag behind. The ideal scenario would be something like TDR - where all parks are popular, bringing in more total guests and more spending.

 

[George]

So, if I leave MK, then come back, I'm counted twice?

It would explain why the Disney man slipped me cash money (2 Washingtons and a shiny national park quarter!) just so that I could touch all the green Mickey heads in front of Disney World's Main Street Choo Choo stop with the 84 wristbands on the broom stick, go through the exit gate, turn around and make 85 (Duh! I had one on my wrist) pretty green circles again right away. He had me do this 23 times.

 

[PhotoDave219]

It would explain why the Disney man slipped me cash money (2 Washingtons and a shiny national park quarter!) just so that I could touch all the green Mickey heads in front of Disney World's Main Street Choo Choo stop with the 84 wristbands on the broom stick, go through the exit gate, turn around and make 85 (Duh! I had one on my wrist) pretty green circles again right away. He had me do this 23 times.

That wouldnt happen. A guest is only ounted once per day. The first park they visit that day means they are a guest of that park. Meaning, if you go to EP first, youre an Epcot Guest. Considered "First Click."

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

What boggles my mind is the defense of the current WDW strategy. Attendance is high! Spending is high! Things are clearly great!

Just because the product is still popular doesn't mean you let it rot. Can you imagine if Apple released the iPhone 4 in 2010, experienced record sales and popularity and then says, well I guess that's it! We don't need to create a new phone next year, everyone loves this one!

It's not the best they can do a year later. Technology advances, new features are developed. The competition starts gaining traction. And Apple does nothing and sells the iPhone 4 for years.

That's crappy business.

Just because you can coast never means you should. Disney has no pride or reverence for their own product, let alone their audience or employees. Live action remakes, acquisitions, ride overlays if WDW is lucky, more timeshares, tiered "surge" pricing - these are the moves of a company with zero faith in itself and no creativity.

Just because guests lap up WDW as is doesn't mean they should sit on their butts. WDW should be doing its BEST at all times, forging ahead, pioneering - like it used to.

That's what good businesses run by passionate people do. They push themselves and don't just strip mine their assets for as long as they can get away with it.

I for one am thrilled to be replacing this year's WDW trip with a two week trip to Tokyo, Hong Kong and Osaka. The entire trip will cost less than a week at AKL with park tickets thanks to super cheap airfare and a great exchange rate.

If you can't muster up the courage to go overseas, come to SoCal and visit a Disney resort that takes care of itself. See a state of the art light parade that makes MSEP look like the museum piece it is, and check out the other amazing things the area has to offer.

And more stuff is closing at DHS? Bye Felicia.

 

[Bairstow]

Disney didn't build four theme parks with the aim of having three lag behind.

Is this a quote or an assumption?

The ideal scenario would be something like TDR - where all parks are popular, bringing in more total guests and more spending.

Tokyo is a completely different market which calls for a different strategy.

Has Disney ever not treated the Magic Kingdom as its flagship Florida park?

 

[wdwmagic]

There was a thread in one of the subforums about the Smiler crash but it's been deleted.

Crazy. I'd love to know more about it.

Not deleted, just moved
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/accident-on-the-world-most-looping-coaster.900122/

 

[maxairmike]

So, if I leave MK, then come back, I'm counted twice?

In TEA's guestimation/first click methodology, no, but first click is not unique guests, either. First click is merely the count of the gate a guest chose to enter 1st on any given day. One guest staying for a week and visiting the parks each day is 7 first click admissions, so that one guest is giving MK 2 clicks, EPCOT 2, DAK 2, DHS 1 (just for an example). But again, that's for the TEA thread, so I'll stop.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Is this a quote or an assumption?


Tokyo is a completely different market which calls for a different strategy.

Has Disney ever not treated the Magic Kingdom as its flagship Florida park?

It's an assumption. Would you spend billions on three theme parks with the hope that they would lag behind your first park by almost 50%? The point of multiple gates is to get more guests to come and stay longer - and spend more money.

The horrible performance of Epcot, DHS and DAK indicates they are not doing their job. Millions of guests come and just go to the MK. That's money left on the table for Disney.

There is no universe in which it makes good business sense to aim for what's presently happening at WDW. It makes good business sense to have four strong gates, each successfully forcing higher guest spending by bringing in more guests who stay longer.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Is this a quote or an assumption?


Tokyo is a completely different market which calls for a different strategy.

Has Disney ever not treated the Magic Kingdom as its flagship Florida park?

No, but that means they shouldn't build out the other three parks. Yes, MK is the flagship but they can easily grow the overall audience. Epcot has languished between 9-11 Million guests per year for close to 20 years (!!?!) now. Studios have ebbed and flowed from 8-10 Million over those same 20 years. Same with DAK in its entire existance.

That is not growth. That is something else to do during a 5 day vacation to Disney World & the Magic Kingdom.

 

[Nemo14]

I would have to think MK's numbers are so much higher because everyone i talk to who goes for 1-3 days goes almost exclusively to MK. once in a lifetimers who are only going once are likely to go there over the other parks due to the nostalgia feeling.

But it hasn't always been that way. If Epcot had at least maintained the quality we saw in the 90's, there would certainly be nostalgia-driven guests there too. But basically it's been dumbed down to a mere shadow of what it was in the glory days, and it pains me and many others to visit there now.

 

[Bairstow]

It's an assumption. Would you spend billions on three theme parks with the hope that they would lag behind your first park by almost 50%? The point of multiple gates is to get more guests to come and stay longer - and spend more money.

The horrible performance of Epcot, DHS and DAK indicates they are not doing their job. Millions of guests come and just go to the MK. That's money left on the table for Disney.

There is no universe in which it makes good business sense to aim for what's presently happening at WDW. It makes good business sense to have four strong gates, each successfully forcing higher guest spending by bringing in more guests who stay longer.

All four of Disney's Florida parks are in the top ten theme parks in the world in terms of admissions.
The price of park tickets is at an all-time high, participation in the dining plan is up, and occupancy at their resorts is up, with sales in the vacation club continuing.

I think Disney is doing just fine, business-wise.

 

[Bairstow]

No, but that means they shouldn't build out the other three parks. Yes, MK is the flagship but they can easily grow the overall audience.

They cannot grow attendance at the other parks without a serious investment of capital in new attractions.
That's not "easy", that's expensive, and if Disney knew that the return on that investment would pay for itself (it probably wouldn't) they would have begun the builds-outs.

Epcot has languished between 9-11 Million guests per year for close to 20 years (!!?!) now. Studios have ebbed and flowed from 8-10 Million over those same 20 years. Same with DAK in its entire existance.

That is not growth.

It's growth when they continue to reduce operating costs yet increase admission and concession prices.
The goal is not to increase park attendance indefinitely; the goal is to maximize return on the existing infrastructure and available market. They're doing that.

That is something else to do during a 5 day vacation to Disney World & the Magic Kingdom.

Exactly. That's the entire purpose of the other 3 parks (and the two water parks) existing; to fill enough days to sell a 4+ day stay in one of the resorts.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

All four of Disney's Florida parks are in the top ten theme parks in the world in terms of admissions.
The price of park tickets is at an all-time high, participation in the dining plan is up, and occupancy at their resorts is up, with sales in the vacation club continuing.

I think Disney is doing just fine, business-wise.

Top 10 yes, but three are drastically behind one of them. They're losing out on untold millions by underutilizing their own assets. This isn't rocket science - if the other three parks were more popular, they'd make more money.

 

[Bairstow]

Just because you can coast never means you should.

But sometimes you can and you should.

 

[Bairstow]

Top 10 yes, but three are drastically behind one of them. They're losing out on untold millions by underutilizing their own assets. This isn't rocket science - if the other three parks were more popular, they'd make more money.

If Disney could just wave a magic wand and make five million extra people a year buy tickets to Animal Kingdom, they would do it.

There are no magic wands.

 

[Phil12]

Top 10 yes, but three are drastically behind one of them. They're losing out on untold millions by underutilizing their own assets. This isn't rocket science - if the other three parks were more popular, they'd make more money.

Based upon that theory, Universal might as well close up its Orlando operation.

 

[Shaman]

I know it might seem crazy to us, but a lot of people think that Disney World is just MK. They barely recognize the other parks as part of "Disney". They'll say, "Oh I went to Disney and Epcot". Point is, MK is the must-do, the other parks are not....they don't have a castle...or something.

 

[PhotoDave219]

They cannot grow attendance at the other parks without a serious investment of capital in new attractions.
That's not "easy", that's expensive, and if Disney knew that the return on that investment would pay for itself (it probably wouldn't) they would have begun the builds-outs.




It's growth when they continue to reduce operating costs yet increase admission and concession prices.
The goal is not to increase park attendance indefinitely; the goal is to maximize return on the existing infrastructure and available market. They're doing that.



Exactly. That's the entire purpose of the other 3 parks (and the two water parks) existing; to fill enough days to sell a 4+ day stay in one of the resorts.

My point is that it continues to be this way over 20 years. I'm gonna make another chart.

 

[Jeffxz]

That wouldnt happen. A guest is only ounted once per day. The first park they visit that day means they are a guest of that park. Meaning, if you go to EP first, youre an Epcot Guest. Considered "First Click."

I know the "first-click" methodology is what everyone thinks the TEA numbers are based on, but that has never been stated by TEA/AECOM and here is a quote that contradicts that TEA is using "first-click"

“Obviously Universal Studios is hitting it out of the park,” said Brian Sands, vice president in AECOM’s economic practice.

Islands of Adventure had been expected to benefit from the Hogwarts Express, a new Harry Potter-themed train that visitors could ride only if they had tickets or passes to both Universal parks.

“Without the train … that number may have been lower as opposed to being flat,” Sands said. “That’s really a function of our industry. Visitors go to the new thing.”

Source: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-theme-park-attendance-2014-20150603-story.html

An AECOM vice president is saying that IOA should have benefited from the train. This would imply that they are not using a "first-click" count.

 

[brb1006]

I know it might seem crazy to us, but a lot of people think that Disney World is just MK. They barely recognize the other parks as part of "Disney". They'll say, "Oh I went to Disney and Epcot". Point is, MK is the must-do, the other parks are not....they don't have a castle...or something.

This might be due to MK being reefer to as "Disney World" during the 70's and 80's since it was the only park during those days.. And even though "Epcot" and the other parks opened years later. People still referee to the MK as Disney World.