Let's go Rangers!
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A Spirited Perfect Ten
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Let's go Rangers!
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
So you're going to walk into a room and then suddenly troll a Flyers fan, a Sabres fan, a blackhawks fan & a lightning fan. Know what we all have in common? We all hate your team.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
750million? For the ducks? zero point zero chance of that.
The most recent NHL franchise sale was 2013, and it was for 170 million.
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Why can't Disney have this out all the time? Those were actually really cool!!!
coolbeans14
Active Member
That's based on something by the daily mail I believe, it seems like it may be true because at least one of the 4 was described as having "life-changing injuries" which to me sounds worse than just breaks. I feel so bad for everyone involved, but it could have been so much worse
Spirited TEA Lunchtime Musings:
I dropped this on the thread Dave started last night, but only had time for a wee comment. And since the annual 'numbers insanity' has ended, I wanted to offer my perspective.
First, what I quoted from @WDWFigment :
<<WDWFigment said: ↑
The simple fact that TDL is not #1 when the OLC releases their *actual* attendance numbers using the first-click methodology means that the reverse-engineered numbers for the other parks are using different and/or flawed methodologies.
MK may see more unique guests due to park hopping over the course of the day, but there are not more bodies in the park at any given moment than there are in TDL.>>
I have skimmed the thread all day (had little better to do while stuck in an ER -- I love America and the world's best healthcare system -- if you're simply dumb!) and this post was the most ... meaningful to me.
I don't need all the Disney vs. UNI crap that inevitably comes out. Or the discussions on Nintendo and Pandora ... gee, I'm sounding like some folks who post on my thread yet have no interest in the topic, just the personalites. I do have interest in this one, though.
And I can only say you nailed it, Tom. But people will largely ignore because people don't go to TDL, they go to Dizzy World.
As I'll put on my thread, the numbers are really not so meaningful because they mean different things in different places. TDL absolutely outdraws the MK in terms of people in the park at any given time. MK has, even now, maybe 10-15 days a year when it is legitimately as crowded as TDL is on an AVERAGE day -- ALL day.
Now, I've often said that Disney plays with its numbers and MK will always be No. 1 (at least until the Commies order Disney to make SDL No. 1), but I don't really see how that it is. I know that it has to be related to the way Disney is counting admission clicks in O-Town (where park-hopping is much more prevalent) because as crazy as MK has become it isn't having 55,000 in-park every day of the year at ONE time. It just isn't. Now, over the course of a day? That may be a different story.
But then you're not comparing apples to apples, are you?
It's much like taking DLP's numbers and comparing them to Europa Park. Disney wins almost 2-to-1, but one park isn't open for almost half the year.
Look at the water park numbers. The No. 1 water park is China's Chimelong in Guangzhou, but they are (when last I checked) only open five months a year. Then you have a park like Typhoon Lagoon that's open usually about nine months. Other parks (like many indoor ones) are open year round.
I guess what I am saying is there's a lot of measuring contests going on with different kinds of rulers!
I dropped this on the thread Dave started last night, but only had time for a wee comment. And since the annual 'numbers insanity' has ended, I wanted to offer my perspective.
First, what I quoted from @WDWFigment :
<<WDWFigment said: ↑
The simple fact that TDL is not #1 when the OLC releases their *actual* attendance numbers using the first-click methodology means that the reverse-engineered numbers for the other parks are using different and/or flawed methodologies.
MK may see more unique guests due to park hopping over the course of the day, but there are not more bodies in the park at any given moment than there are in TDL.>>
I have skimmed the thread all day (had little better to do while stuck in an ER -- I love America and the world's best healthcare system -- if you're simply dumb!) and this post was the most ... meaningful to me.
I don't need all the Disney vs. UNI crap that inevitably comes out. Or the discussions on Nintendo and Pandora ... gee, I'm sounding like some folks who post on my thread yet have no interest in the topic, just the personalites. I do have interest in this one, though.
And I can only say you nailed it, Tom. But people will largely ignore because people don't go to TDL, they go to Dizzy World.
As I'll put on my thread, the numbers are really not so meaningful because they mean different things in different places. TDL absolutely outdraws the MK in terms of people in the park at any given time. MK has, even now, maybe 10-15 days a year when it is legitimately as crowded as TDL is on an AVERAGE day -- ALL day.
Now, I've often said that Disney plays with its numbers and MK will always be No. 1 (at least until the Commies order Disney to make SDL No. 1), but I don't really see how that it is. I know that it has to be related to the way Disney is counting admission clicks in O-Town (where park-hopping is much more prevalent) because as crazy as MK has become it isn't having 55,000 in-park every day of the year at ONE time. It just isn't. Now, over the course of a day? That may be a different story.
But then you're not comparing apples to apples, are you?
It's much like taking DLP's numbers and comparing them to Europa Park. Disney wins almost 2-to-1, but one park isn't open for almost half the year.
Look at the water park numbers. The No. 1 water park is China's Chimelong in Guangzhou, but they are (when last I checked) only open five months a year. Then you have a park like Typhoon Lagoon that's open usually about nine months. Other parks (like many indoor ones) are open year round.
I guess what I am saying is there's a lot of measuring contests going on with different kinds of rulers!
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Isn't the measurement simple though? Total unique guests for the 12 month period? TDL has more people in the park on a consistent basis then MK. Okay, I'll buy that. That's not what is being measured here is it? It's unique guests, no?
edit for clarity.
Last edited:
maxairmike
Well-Known Member
Nope, not unique guests, that would be a far, far lower number. But that's for the TEA thread.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
So, if I leave MK, then come back, I'm counted twice?
New Spirited TEA Lunchtime Musings Part II:
What I am amazed at is that no one here yet has stated what should be very obvious to anyone crowing about the MK numbers. That is, if I'm running WDW and I can pull 19 million plus into one of my parks, yet not come close with my other three (two of which attract barely half the crowd) that Disney is doing one awful job of running a resort.
Just sorta think about it. You can attract close to 20 million Guests to one of your parks, but barely 10 million to half the parks you operate and you should be lauded for running a resort the right way? Sorry, I ain't buying what the Pixie Dust crowd be a selling. That tells me management is horrible. They are letting all of these visitors walk. How is that a good thing?
Now, before all the first click defenders come out from under their rocks, I have a question.
Either the MK is uber popular (well, it is ... so that ain't the question) and people start their day there and then hop to other parks (in which case, under prevailing theory, those clicks don't count) OR MK loses so many clicks because people go to either the 'three attraction park' or 'the half day park' FIRST and then go to the MK because it's the only park with true regular night hours, so which is it?
Or to make Disney's numbers look more legit (and, yes, I'm saying that most of the numbers TEA prints are best guestimates ...not all but a great many) are we saying people start their days at MK, hop to another park for a few hours and hop on back? I'm curious as to what the Disney fanboi narrative is.
To this day, I still wonder if Disney includes Cast comps and maingates as well as hard ticket events in its internal numbers. They are Guests, after all.
DAK and Disney-MGM's remains somehow show the exact same two percent increases?
Over in Paris, both DLP gates show the exact same drop in numbers when DSP opened a major new E-Ticket and Parisian-themed area.
And back in O-Town, UNI experiences the large increase one would expect from Diagon Alley's debut, yet IOA is completely flat!? Is that the first click BS too where every visitor decided they had to visit DA first and not take the HE over?
And the HK numbers ... Ocean Park still ahead of Disney when the SAR owns both parks, but has a much better relationship with one. I'm sure that doesn't play into anything at all. Nope. Never.
I could go on about the numbers, but then I'd fall into the trap that fanbois do annually. That there is some basic truth that can be gleaned from them.
There is one, I suppose. It's this: people worldwide love theme parks and that 2014 was a very, very good year for the vast majority. That's it.
If you read to the very end of the report, beyond the numbers and the pretty pictures, then you see a disclaimer that is pretty strongly worded. It's in there because the organization knows that many of the numbers are massaged, maybe not by huge amounts (no, the MK isn't getting 12 million visitors and leaking TEA the 19 million number) but enough.
Which makes the annual urinating contest between Team Disney and Team UNI kinda pointless. But it will go on and on ...and what's the saying? If you torture numbers enough they'll say anything?
That's sorta my feelings on the subject.
Everyone and their mother knew Disney and UNI had great years and that SW didn't.
Everyone and their mother knew that regardless of how good UNI did that there was no way it was going past any of Disney's gates (something that matters much more to fanbois).
So why am I talking about it? Yep ... time to stop.
What I am amazed at is that no one here yet has stated what should be very obvious to anyone crowing about the MK numbers. That is, if I'm running WDW and I can pull 19 million plus into one of my parks, yet not come close with my other three (two of which attract barely half the crowd) that Disney is doing one awful job of running a resort.
Just sorta think about it. You can attract close to 20 million Guests to one of your parks, but barely 10 million to half the parks you operate and you should be lauded for running a resort the right way? Sorry, I ain't buying what the Pixie Dust crowd be a selling. That tells me management is horrible. They are letting all of these visitors walk. How is that a good thing?
Now, before all the first click defenders come out from under their rocks, I have a question.
Either the MK is uber popular (well, it is ... so that ain't the question) and people start their day there and then hop to other parks (in which case, under prevailing theory, those clicks don't count) OR MK loses so many clicks because people go to either the 'three attraction park' or 'the half day park' FIRST and then go to the MK because it's the only park with true regular night hours, so which is it?
Or to make Disney's numbers look more legit (and, yes, I'm saying that most of the numbers TEA prints are best guestimates ...not all but a great many) are we saying people start their days at MK, hop to another park for a few hours and hop on back? I'm curious as to what the Disney fanboi narrative is.
To this day, I still wonder if Disney includes Cast comps and maingates as well as hard ticket events in its internal numbers. They are Guests, after all.
DAK and Disney-MGM's remains somehow show the exact same two percent increases?
Over in Paris, both DLP gates show the exact same drop in numbers when DSP opened a major new E-Ticket and Parisian-themed area.
And back in O-Town, UNI experiences the large increase one would expect from Diagon Alley's debut, yet IOA is completely flat!? Is that the first click BS too where every visitor decided they had to visit DA first and not take the HE over?
And the HK numbers ... Ocean Park still ahead of Disney when the SAR owns both parks, but has a much better relationship with one. I'm sure that doesn't play into anything at all. Nope. Never.
I could go on about the numbers, but then I'd fall into the trap that fanbois do annually. That there is some basic truth that can be gleaned from them.
There is one, I suppose. It's this: people worldwide love theme parks and that 2014 was a very, very good year for the vast majority. That's it.
If you read to the very end of the report, beyond the numbers and the pretty pictures, then you see a disclaimer that is pretty strongly worded. It's in there because the organization knows that many of the numbers are massaged, maybe not by huge amounts (no, the MK isn't getting 12 million visitors and leaking TEA the 19 million number) but enough.
Which makes the annual urinating contest between Team Disney and Team UNI kinda pointless. But it will go on and on ...and what's the saying? If you torture numbers enough they'll say anything?
That's sorta my feelings on the subject.
Everyone and their mother knew Disney and UNI had great years and that SW didn't.
Everyone and their mother knew that regardless of how good UNI did that there was no way it was going past any of Disney's gates (something that matters much more to fanbois).
So why am I talking about it? Yep ... time to stop.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Oh dear lord, yeah..... That'd be something I dont think any company wants to come out.
Part of the reason for some of the skepticism stems from Spirit's obvious hatred for Iger, and it seems like he will say or do anything to get him to look bad, and hopefully removed by the BoD. So we have a story from him (and you) that someone had a story censored because Willow told them to remove it. You and Spirit claim to KNOW this as fact, but cannot provide proof due to a "sensitive nature of sources". Yet NOT ONE OTHER NEWS AGENCY ON THE PLANET has claimed any of this. NOT ONE. So you can see how we are skeptical of a "fact" that no one else in the news industry seems to be writing about. Why is that? You cannot expect us to believe that not one news agency anywhere in the world would not hesitate to take a pot shot at Disney for this. C'mon, really??? That is completely outside the bounds of reality, and yet you expect us to believe it because Spirit says so. Just because he gets some good inside information from park happenings, does not mean he gets good intel for everything.
How do you know that his sources aren't making it up because THEY don't like Iger or Willow either? Why haven't his sources reported it even anonymously to every news organization that they could? Do you honestly believe that NONE of them would report it? So since NO ONE ELSE is reporting on it, we really wonder if someone with an agenda isn't making it up, and telling y'all all about it. As a matter of fact, I asked Spirit directly about his "sources" on other items, and whether or not they had an agenda against Bob Iger as well. Complete and utter silence. No answer. Even if he did answer, of course, he will say no, but again, there is no proof of anything.
You know, up until now, I have had total respect for Spirit (despite his inflammatory method of posting) because his information was solid, and presented well. Over this article, and SDL, he has completely gone off the deep end with his obvious hatred of the man. It really presents itself as a witch hunt that he is on, and it really paints him in less than a favorable light with everyone but his faithful minions, who protect him regardless of motivation.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I follow.
Is there anything fundamentally wrong with running four theme parks of differing size, purpose, and popularity?
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Time for a chart!
None of the three other Disney parks are even approaching MK numbers. In fact, MK is pulling ahead.
DAK/DHS are practically the same while Epcot slowly melting into those two as well.
The Tuna
Well-Known Member
The only way to get true numbers would be to have an online database that updates with every click of the turnstiles... or magic band scans or whatever. In reality though do the numbers really matter to anyone other than Comcast and Disney et al? I think spirit puts it best when he says Disney and Uni made bank, seaworld did not and most of the numbers make absolutely no sense and TEA basically says the same thing.
P_Radden
Well-Known Member
This thought really hit home with me. TWDC is all about profits, but why does Parks & Resorts sit back and let WDW slowly rot away? As you mention, the lack of attendance at the other parks is revenue they are missing out on. I understand the parks don't generate the type of RoI box office hits do, but if people are already at WDW, and only visiting MK, this should be a red flag to invest in new attractions and improvements in Epcot/DHS ASAP, not 2,3-5 years down the road!
The Tuna
Well-Known Member
I would have to think MK's numbers are so much higher because everyone i talk to who goes for 1-3 days goes almost exclusively to MK. once in a lifetimers who are only going once are likely to go there over the other parks due to the nostalgia feeling.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
The point, as illustrated in the chart, is that Disney has not done anything to fundamentaly change that model and develop the other three parks and truly grow the attendance. They've allowed (or relegated) Epcot/DAK/DHS to be supporting cast instead of a must-do theme park destination. IMO.
They're also not spreading out the crowd whatsoever.