A Spirited Perfect Ten

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Where is your source for that? That's a huge jump.
Birnbaum's Official Guide to Walt Disney World for Cinderella's Royal Table All-You-Can-Eat Character Breakfast:

Year, Adult, Child
2001, $15, $8
2002, $16, $9
2005, $20, $10
2015, $48, $30

I actually don't mind the CRT adult price increase too much. Memory can be a funny thing but I always recall breakfast at CRT being the hottest meal at WDW. The room is fairly small, so why not charge whatever the market will bear?

However, if other children eat like ours did when they were under 9, then the child price is steep.

P.S. I just double-checked the WDW website. The 2015 price of $58 for adult and $36 for child does include tax & automatic gratuity. In my earlier post, I assumed it did not. I'll go back and fix my earlier post. (touringplans.com, where I got the original price, states "For Guests Ages 10 and over: $58.15 plus tax | Ages 3-9: $35.86 plus tax". To me, this implies tax and automatic gratuity are separate.)
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
There's nothing remarkable about a bus that arrives when it's supposed to and takes a reasonable amount of time to reach its destination

Yeah, that's what happens when you pick unremarkable things to start with.. you can only go down.

Meanwhile... a monorail just showing up on time... people still remember the monorail with good thoughts.

You have a lot less good will 'banked' when you aim for mediocre to start with.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
Birnbaum's Official Guide to Walt Disney World for Cinderella's Royal Table All-You-Can-Eat Character Breakfast:

Year, Adult, Child
2001, $15, $8
2002, $16, $9
2005, $20, $10
2015, $48, $30

I actually don't mind the CRT adult price increase too much. Memory can be a funny thing but I always recall breakfast at CRT being the hottest meal at WDW. The room is fairly small, so why not charge whatever the market will bear?

However, if other children eat like ours did when they were under 9, then the child price is steep.

P.S. I just double-checked the WDW website. The 2015 price of $58 for adult and $36 for child does include tax & automatic gratuity. In my earlier post, I assumed it did not. I'll go back and fix my earlier post. (touringplans.com, where I got the original price, states "For Guests Ages 10 and over: $58.15 plus tax | Ages 3-9: $35.86 plus tax". To me, this implies tax and automatic gratuity are separate.)
Keep the birnbaum handy. Some sleazy brand advocate will ask you to post scans as proof in a few minutes
 

culturenthrills

Well-Known Member
BAM!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/monikab...ney-spent-15-billion-to-limit-their-audience/
Disney Spent $15 Billion To Limit Their Audience

Over the last decade, Disney has spent $15 billion to recapture the market they once had a stranglehold on: children. Purchasing Pixar, Marvel, and Lucasfilm allowed the company to acquire a massive mix of current popular entertainment and fervent parental nostalgia, and control the dominating forces of franchise entertainment. The empire has been rebuilt, but can it last when it continues to gender divide children and limit their audience?

When Disney bought these companies, they bought thousands of characters, from Buzz Lightyear to Luke Skywalker to Iron Man, and control over massive Hollywood franchises. Marvel has years of potential blockbuster content mapped out, and even more live action television shows from Agents of SHIELD to the upcoming Iron Fist. Though Star Wars’ prequels are reviled, the Force is brewing again with a new trilogy and a whole series of films and off-shoots.

All eyes are set to the future — so much so that Avengers: Age of Ultron barely reached screens before attention turned to Captain America: Civil Warbut practices are staunchly set in the past and willfully blind to the realities of the present.

The arrival of the first Avengers movie marketed “Be a Hero” to boys and “I Need a Hero” to girls, while completely exempting Black Widow from certain merchandise. Disney’s already pushing products for the upcoming Star Wars films, but are excluding Princess Leia from action figures, and popular characters from its Star Wars: Rebels line. Gamora, likewise, was deleted from Guardians of the Galaxy products. With Age of Ultron, Black Widow is not only removed from myriad team shots and merchandise, but from her very own scenes. Instead of marketing Black Widow on her motorcycle, Hasbro offers Captain America and Iron Man.

avengers-age-of-ultron-black-widow.jpg

Black Widow in Avengers: Age of Ultron

What was once implicit is now explicit. Instead of pondering the reasoning behind creative decisions that fail to include women, fans are greeted with flagrant disinterest in the diversity these franchises already have and the money they could make from them. According to a former Marvel employee quoting her supervisor, the company’s desired demographic has no girls because “that’s not why Disney bought us. They already have the girls’ market on lockdown.” The piece goes on to explain, “Disney bought Marvel and Lucasfilm because they wanted to access the male market. To achieve this goal, they allocate less to Marvel’s female demo, and even less to a unisex one.”

Disney spent a staggering $15 billion to expand its hold on the market, only to actively narrow it, limiting their reach and angering the consumers they should be serving: almost half of the 24 million people who identify as comic fans on Facebook are female, and women make up 52% of moviegoers. These empires rely on a certain amount of good faith that diversification is on the way to serve the changing demographics of consumers — faith that’s instantly destroyed by attitudes that trump gender division over basic business sense.

Now everyone from casual consumers to celebrities starring in these vehicles publicly criticize the removal of female characters from official merchandise. Mark Ruffalo lamented the lack of Black Widow merchandise available for his daughters and nieces, while Clark Gregg linked to a petition for Black Widow to be added to a pack of Avengers action figures. This week, Colin Hanks shared a story about making his daughter a Star Wars fan for May 4, only to take her to a toy store where light sabers were only available in the boys’ section, and the only available Leia toy was “Slave Leia,” with a chain hanging from her neck.

There are, of course, many companies involved in these franchises, from Disney, to subsidiaries like Marvel, to the toy companies like Hasbro, to the toy stores that categorize and stock the merchandise. It’s a messy system that allows blame to be scattered and ultimately ignored. But the ultimate responsibilities lay with the owners of the brand and the plans they have for them. If Disney wanted to embrace the diverse fandom these franchises and characters have, they’d push for all of their consumers to be well-served. But at the very least, as a business interested in making money, they’d insist that their products accurately depict the brands they’re selling, and not let old-school gender division hurt the bottom line and anger their audience.

In 2011, Brand Driven Digital published a pieceon eight innovation lessons we can learn from Walt Disney and his life. They include “turn convention on its head,” “diversify,” “keep moving forward,” and finally, “nothing matters more than the community you serve.” Modern Disney is doing the opposite. They are clinging desperately to an old marketing system that doesn’t reflect today’s numbers, while removing fan favorites from their product lines and angering the very community they’re supposed to serve.

With each new creative step, their subsidiaries’ creative content stresses diversity, from the new cast of Star Wars, to the development of a Captain Marvel movie, to the next wave of Avengers. But if they’re not prepared to offer their customers the most basic service — products that reflect the ideas and heroes on-screen — their $15 billion trek to supremacy could become $15 billion trek to destruction.
Excellent article that shows how ignorant current management is. They are losing out on millions in sales because of there stupidity.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Keep the birnbaum handy. Some sleazy brand advocate will ask you to post scans as proof in a few minutes

FYI, Deb Wills' site is usually available via http://archive.org But maybe she made stuff up a decade ago, in order to make WDW look bad in 2015. :cautious::devilish:

The original pages, are much more sparse, but they are under (don't click on these links, just copy into the Wayback machine):

http://www.wdn.com/dwills/contents.htm

Then got updated to http://wdwig.com/contents.htm

And then allears.net

So for CRT the oldest menus are B, L, D (can click these links)
https://web.archive.org/web/19990930064735/http://www.wdwig.com/menu/menu_crb.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/19970707191536/http://www.wdn.com/dwills/menu/menu_crl.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/19970707191545/http://www.wdn.com/dwills/menu/menu_crd.htm

And then you can scroll through updated versions (but don't forget to update the URL so for those, update the wdn part to wdwig), and get a good timeline of when and how things changed. Lots of good stuff (Spirit brought up the Disney Dining Experience, those pages are archived too)
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Now to see what else Cedar fair can do for its parks in the coming years (I've heard some good things about Kings Dominion through the grapevine). It really is an exciting time for this company!

By no means are Cedar Fair dealing with the same admission prices or attendance (although Canada's Wonderland gets up there considering the seasonality), but you have to really admire how they understand the proper investment cycle.

Canada's Wonderland is my 'home park' as it were. Every 4 years you get your big B&M E-ticket. Two years post E-ticket they introduce a D-ticket like Wonder Mountain. The odd years usually have something like waterslides, some sort of show or simple flat rides.

It happens like clock work... it's really not a hard concept. It was even happening under the old ownership, although the quality of the new offerings were questionable... but there has always been a new ride every single year!

Disney can barely match that pace across four parks. Why the business execs at Cedar Fair have figured this out and Disney hasn't is beyond me.
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
By no means are Cedar Fair dealing with the same admission prices or attendance (although Canada's Wonderland gets up there considering the seasonality), but you have to really admire how they understand the proper investment cycle.

Canada's Wonderland is my 'home park' as it were. Every 4 years you get your big B&M E-ticket. Two years post E-ticket they introduce a D-ticket like Wonder Mountain. The odd years usually have something like waterslides, some sort of show or simple flat rides.

It happens like clock work... it's really not a hard concept. It was even happening under the old ownership, although the quality of the new offerings were questionable... but there has always been a new ride every single year!

Disney can barely match that pace across four parks. Why the business execs at Cedar Fair have figured this out and Disney hasn't is beyond me.
Because WDW isn't a park reliant on local draw as much.
 

Darth Sidious

Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
Are you serious? Gotta ask again. Or just sent up from the PML to stir a Spirited thread?

Because the whole WDW as a relaxing vacation destination ended sometime about two decades ago. You can't have the amount of options spread out over such distances and require so much planning all at incredibly high pricing for most people to relax at WDW.

I can do it. But I've spent likely a crazy amount of time at WDW. I go now because it is still relatively new to the love of my life and because I can enjoy spending time with family and friends there. Beyond DAK and some parts of EPCOT, I largely do NOT go for the theme park product because the reality is it just plain isn't very good at anymore. ...So, sure, I can do two laps around the World Showcase lagoon at night with a drink or a snack, maybe stop for 1-2 attractions, see RoE and then do two more laps around the lagoon. Just for exercise and music and then to be one of (but not the last as that honor always goes to @WDWFigment, even when he is far, far away! :) )the last people there. ... Or maybe I go to DAK with a friend and spend 30 minutes just watching the gorillas, as I did last month.

But I also spent a week at WDW and the entire trip including food and gas and tolls (and luxury accommodations at a friend's!) likely didn't even set me back $500.

If I was blowing through eight grand in a week, then I wouldn't be chilling and I don't blame the folks who can't stop and smell the roses, Those roses have very pricey thorns on them!

I love watching the little monkey on the way to Everest. Quite a personality that little dude had when I was there last year.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
So just to add on from Deb's archives site for Breakfast at CRT:
Year Adult Child Remarks
1998 $14.95 $7.95 No pictures were taken
2005 $21.99 $11.99 No pictures were taken
2006 $31.99 $21.99 On February 1 this year they added the pictures, so a large price increase
A package with four 4x6 prints and one 6x8 print of your photo, as well as one 6x8 print of Cinderella Castle, in a Cinderella photo holder
2007 $31.99 $21.99 Special Holiday pricing started this year, and still continues
2008 $33.99 $22.99 Tax & Gratuity NOT included up to this point
2010 $44.80 $29.86 Tax & Gratuity are now included, which covers the larger increase this year
2012 $52.07 $33.47 These are the prices for the lowest cost season
2013 $53.29 $34.64
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
So just to add on from Deb's archives site for Breakfast at CRT:
Year Adult Child Remarks
1998 $14.95 $7.95 No pictures were taken
2005 $21.99 $11.99 No pictures were taken
2006 $31.99 $21.99 On February 1 this year they added the pictures, so a large price increase
A package with four 4x6 prints and one 6x8 print of your photo, as well as one 6x8 print of Cinderella Castle, in a Cinderella photo holder
2007 $31.99 $21.99 Special Holiday pricing started this year, and still continues
2008 $33.99 $22.99 Tax & Gratuity NOT included up to this point
2010 $44.80 $29.86 Tax & Gratuity are now included, which covers the larger increase this year
2012 $52.07 $33.47 These are the prices for the lowest cost season
2013 $53.29 $34.64
Here's an interesting 2002 article from the Orlando Sentinel, which states:

Seating is by reservation, which Disney calls "priority seating" only. The price of the meals are $15.99 plus tax for adults and $8.99 per child.​

Note this is consistent with the price in the 2002 edition of Birnbaum's ($16 and $9).
 

Goofywilliam

Well-Known Member
By no means are Cedar Fair dealing with the same admission prices or attendance (although Canada's Wonderland gets up there considering the seasonality), but you have to really admire how they understand the proper investment cycle.

Canada's Wonderland is my 'home park' as it were. Every 4 years you get your big B&M E-ticket. Two years post E-ticket they introduce a D-ticket like Wonder Mountain. The odd years usually have something like waterslides, some sort of show or simple flat rides.

It happens like clock work... it's really not a hard concept. It was even happening under the old ownership, although the quality of the new offerings were questionable... but there has always been a new ride every single year!

Disney can barely match that pace across four parks. Why the business execs at Cedar Fair have figured this out and Disney hasn't is beyond me.
I have been wanting to visit Canadas Wonderland for some time now! I was really impressed last year with the addition of the the dark ride/coaster INSIDE the mountain and also with the very nice fountain show. Cedar Fair really does have a respectable business model. You can visit any of their parks and have a really enjoyable day without breaking the bank and they do seem to have something new in the parks every year. In my home parks (Carowinds and Kings Dominion) I have noticed a drastic upbeat in maintenance and service. They are actually refurbishing buildings now and keeping their rides and parks looking clean and nice (something I can't say for when Paramount owned them). The future looks bright for these parks.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Here's an interesting 2002 article from the Orlando Sentinel, which states:

Seating is by reservation, which Disney calls "priority seating" only. The price of the meals are $15.99 plus tax for adults and $8.99 per child.​

Note this is consistent with the price in the 2002 edition of Birnbaum's ($16 and $9).
Not everything is pegged to the CPI, you know that. I've never tried to get a reservation at CRT, but isn't it still darn near impossible inside 180? What does that tell you about supply and demand?
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Not everything is pegged to the CPI, you know that. I've never tried to get a reservation at CRT, but isn't it still darn near impossible inside 180? What does that tell you about supply and demand?
A miracle! We're actually agreeing. As I posted earlier:

I actually don't mind the CRT adult price increase too much. Memory can be a funny thing but I always recall breakfast at CRT being the hottest meal at WDW. The room is fairly small, so why not charge whatever the market will bear?​

:D
 

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