A Spirited Perfect Ten

[ParentsOf4]

Luxury goods should absolutely outpace income growth in general. If you're a WDW visitor, your basics (food and shelter) are already paid for so any income growth is disposable. If your chart adjusted income to reflect strictly DISPOSABLE income, those lines would be much closer (I suspect).

As median household income has stagnated, disposable income has declined in recent years.

In general, businesses are reluctant to control prices to consumers unless external market forces back them into a corner.

At WDW, this has been a long-term trend. Back in the 1970s and through the mid-1980s, a tower room at the Contemporary cost today's equivalent of about $200/night. The equivalent of $200/night was not cheap and, even then, paying for a room at the Contemporary was a stretch for many families.

Today, rack rates for a tower room at the Contemporary start at over $500/night.

 

[BrerJon]

It's moving ahead very slowly. But I'll believe it's being built when it actually happens. Too many parks like this get proposed and money is spent with designers, but nothing ever happens. London could certainly use a park.

Thoughts to our UKers: @wdwmagic ... @marni1971

The UK has a nightmare web of planning negotiations to navigate that can add a lot of resistance to construction plans, but I think it will come off. It's in a great location, will have local and - depending on the general election result - governmental support, and existing British theme parks are dreadful (hence why so many flock to DLP and WDW) with no decent water parks, so there's a big gap in the market.

So an Easter 2020 opening date, for an enormous innovative new theme park. Meanwhile at WDW, that's about the same time that (optimistic) estimates suggest a Star Wars land of some kind could open at DHS. Nice to see Disney leading the way (ROFL).

So with Doctor Who and Star Trek in London, and Star Wars in DHS, 2020 is shaping up to be a good year to be a sci-fi theme park fan.

 

[Absimilliard]

Not a fan of grass fed beef myself. Give me a nice steak raised on a mix of grain and grass and I will be happy! I prefer "fattier" japanese Wagyu to the leaner grass fed steaks that are the trend right now in North America. When I was in Taiwan the last time, I had a delicious Australian Wagyu Strip Steak and it was delicious.

My favorite steak is the local Rib Steak grilled with Smoked Meat spices and Garlic. What we call in Montreal a Rib Steak is a Bone in Ribeye in the US and the Smoked Meat Spices are sold as "Montreal Steak Spices" elsewhere. Moishes in Montreal is renowned for that, but there are other Deli in town that serve awesome Rib Steak at great prices.

 

[GoofGoof]

Interesting article. Interesting comments under the article including a Disney/concentration camp mash up word that seemed WAAAAAY over the top and inappropriate. It doesn't seem like anyone did the public relations cost calculation. The article says they laid of 135 IT workers. Dude under the article says they're lying and it was 400. I'm going to use 200 cuz I'll be multiplying and the like. It says by law the new employees have to get 60K. Let us assume the old employees earned 100K. Let us also assume the old IT employees had an extremely generous benefits package, etc. and are on the whole about 100k a year more expensive than the dude from India who was told we have universal health care so the no health insurance isn't a big deal.

So, 100K * 200 = chicken **** for Disney.

It's a shame for the 135 people and their families. Unfortunately, all too common of an occurrence. Many companies outsource things like IT and customer service to India and other places with cheaper labor. Not saying it's right, but it's certainly a common practice. I don't think it's necessarily a PR nightmare either. Nobody is gonna make a huge deal about 135 jobs. I've seen big pharma companies outsource the majority of their IT departments (thousands of jobs). It's not just IT and customer call centers either. I've seen it with finance and accounting functions as well and even HR. The one thing it will do is kill morale. My previous employer outsourced a large portion of their accounting/finance group not long after I left. The jobs went to Brazil not India. The people who got to keep their jobs in a lot of cases were less happy then those who were let go. It's tough to go into work and see a bunch of empty desks and know your turn could be next. The bad blood will eventually pass, but you could end up losing more good people in the process.

 

[gmajew]

Since today's WDW charges so much more than WDW of old, are you suggesting that the WDW of the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s was less successful?

Seriously though, WDW is simply charging what the market will bear.

What I've explained in another post on these threads is that, IMO, WDW's increasingly higher prices have made it more susceptible to recessions:

View attachment 91264

No that is not what I was saying. It was a tongue and check comment. Meaning that WDW is so successful they feel they can do about anything with price as people still come.

 

[ParentsOf4]

No that is not what I was saying. It was a tongue and check comment. Meaning that WDW is so successful they feel they can do about anything with price as people still come.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I realized you were not being serious, which is why I replied with a .

 

[CaptainAmerica]

As median household income has stagnated, disposable income has declined in recent years.

In general, businesses are reluctant to control prices to consumers unless external market forces back them into a corner.

At WDW, this has been a long-term trend. Back in the 1970s and through the mid-1980s, a tower room at the Contemporary cost today's equivalent of about $200/night. The equivalent of $200/night was not cheap and, even then, paying for a room at the Contemporary was a stretch for many families.

Today, rack rates for a tower room at the Contemporary start at over $500/night.

Median earners should absolutely not be staying in a tower room at the Contemporary. Comparing trends in median income with rack rates in those rooms is about as valuable as comparing poverty rates in rural Appalachia to the MSRP of the E-Class.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Median earners should absolutely not be staying in a tower room at the Contemporary. Comparing trends in median income with rack rates in those rooms is about as valuable as comparing poverty rates in rural Appalachia to the MSRP of the E-Class.

Sorry but I believe you are missing the point.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, it was possible for families of modest means to stay in a tower room at the Contemporary.

As I wrote, a tower room at the Contemporary cost today's equivalent of about $200/night back in the 1970s and 1980s.

Today, it sometimes can be a challenge to find a Moderate Resort at that price.

 

[ParentsOf4]

this..we did it in high school for my bday.
me and a friend, of course my parents paid

Sometimes people seem reluctant to accept that WDW really was a lot less expensive back then.

Time for me to trot out my favorite comparison ...

Even as a poor student, I was able to afford a WDW vacation back in the day.

In 1974, WDW did not sell 4-day tickets. However, a 2-day ticket with 17 Adventure Book cost $14.25 (with tax). Minimum wage was $2.00/hour so that’s about 7 hours of work for a 2-day ticket, or the equivalent of about 14 hours of work for 4 days.

In 1984, a 4-day WDW ticket with park hopping was $52 (with tax). Minimum wage was $3.35/hour so that’s about 16 hours of work.

In 1994, a 4-day WDW ticket with park hopping was about $143 (with tax). Minimum wage was $4.25/hour so that’s about 34 hours of work.

In 2004, a 4-day WDW ticket with park hopping was about $233 (with tax). Minimum wage was $5.15/hour so that’s about 45 hours of work.

In 2014, a 4-day WDW ticket with park hopping is about $377 (with tax). Minimum wage is $7.25/hour so that’s about 52 hours of work.

WDW never was cheap but it costs a heck of a lot more today.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Sorry but I believe you are missing the point.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s, it was possible for families of modest means to stay in a tower room at the Contemporary.

As I wrote, a tower room at the Contemporary cost today's equivalent of about $200/night back in the 1970s and 1980s.

Today, it sometimes can be a challenge to find a Moderate Resort at that price.

I understand all that. What I'm failing to understand is the implication that all of this is a problem or somehow economically unnatural. Demand growth has outpaced supply growth, it's as simple as that. People are demonizing Disney for building a product that people want so badly that they're willing to spend large sums of money to experience it. Not sure what Disney is expected to do here. Charge $220 per night when they have lines of people willing to pay double that?

 

[Rteetz]

It seems like Disney may have bought a hotel in Anaheim across from Disneyland

http://m.ocregister.com/articles/disney-659941-hotel-inn.html

 

[BrianLo]

Taking things back to TDL for a minute, one of the things that peaks my interest is the expansion beyond the current TDL berm. The first part being it relieves some concerns that there wasn't quite enough room to fit in Small World/Be our Guest and a whole other D/E-ticket.

The second VERY interesting part is the expansion beyond the berm that they are not using for fantasyland.

Especially when one considers access to that area could easily be achieved in between Star Tours/Space Mountain... it kind of makes one wonder if an overseas Star Wars addition is in the early planning stages for TDL.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I understand all that. What I'm failing to understand is the implication that all of this is a problem or somehow economically unnatural. Demand growth has outpaced supply growth, it's as simple as that. People are demonizing Disney for building a product that people want so badly that they're willing to spend large sums of money to experience it. Not sure what Disney is expected to do here. Charge $220 per night when they have lines of people willing to pay double that?

History is replete with companies that started from nothing, grew into juggernauts, and then collapsed as those behemoths failed to respond to market forces.

The challenge facing WDW in the coming decade is that it is slowly pricing itself out of its core market. This is reflected in the popularity of offsite hotels, as WDW has added only 1984 hotel rooms in the last decade even as theme park attendance has increased by 33%. This is reflected in Disney's move to convert existing Deluxe Resort rooms into timeshares as Disney struggles to fill its Deluxe Resorts. This is reflected in the ratio of ticket to merchandise, food, & beverage sales, which is at a historic low and trending downward.

As WDW's price increases outpace consumer buying power, consumers are adjusting their spending patterns. They still want to vacation at WDW but, as Disney increases prices, Disney is capturing a shrinking share of those vacation dollars. This is being accelerated by intelligent investments being made at Universal, which are slowly making a "WDW only" vacation in Orlando a thing of the past.

Disney needs to respond to these market forces with a long-term strategy that's as coherent as the OLC long-term strategy that I posted on this thread yesterday.

Every corporate behemoth reaches a point where it thinks it's invincible. The reality is that the market is dynamic and that, if those behemoths don't react as nimbly as they once did, the market eventually will eat them alive.

The Orlando economy is booming right now, which masks a lot of problems. However, the next recession will be sooner rather than later and, as I wrote earlier today, WDW has become increasingly susceptible to recessions because of its current business strategy.

As long as Disney continues to act like GM or McDonald's, it's positioning its Orlando operations to experience the same problems those industry leaders have experienced.

 

[Rteetz]

It seems like Disney may have bought a hotel in Anaheim across from Disneyland

http://m.ocregister.com/articles/disney-659941-hotel-inn.html

Could this be for more parking? I know they have a parking problem and it's not an incredibly large hotel. Any other ideas for this hotel?

 

[Nemo14]

Could this be for more parking? I know they have a parking problem and it's not an incredibly large hotel. Any other ideas for this hotel?

Frozen themed hotel?

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Beef Update:

For those keeping track at home, tonight's dinner was a 6 oz. filet mignon with two sides (salad and veggies) for $20.49 at the Outback Steakhouse. Since I know their senior VP of US Ops, I can tell you that at that price point, they aren't losing money. They're making a nice profit. Oh, and I also added in a $2.99 side of 'shrooms (nope, not $12 like the Boathouse and enough for 2-3 people) and a $7.79 sundae (that should be $5.99 but was removed from the menu a few years ago, despite being a staple since the chain began in Tampa in 1988, and doesn't allow a way to key it in at the proper price).

Again, I'd love someone to explain to me why a WDW filet has to be over twice the price a la carte. That salad would probably be between $8-15 at a Disney signature location and that sundae would have been at least $10.

Yes, Disney is struggling to profit on that $45 steak ... just really. Only Disney. Only Disney.

 

[WDW1974]

Ive been cooking my own. I've become a complete steak snob. Thick thick filets cooked for 3-3 1/2 minutes a side over charcoal. Basted in olive oil with just kosher salt and pepper on it. Nice medium rare, paired with a nice cabernet.

I can't cook, really. (that's what my fanboi minions are for ... you thought they were here for their looks?)

I can make a mean sandwich or salad or even pasta dish. But real cooking? That's a life skill I just never learned.
And I have never had a steak at anyone's (from relatives to colleagues to friends etc) that I would term 'restaurant quality' let alone better.

Now, after you move, I find out that you can cook!!!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Could this be for more parking? I know they have a parking problem and it's not an incredibly large hotel. Any other ideas for this hotel?

I don't see Disney dropping a hotel that charges $100-$400/night for a room for a parking lot that brings in $17/day per space.

It's also not a lot of room for a parking lot either.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Taking things back to TDL for a minute, one of the things that peaks my interest is the expansion beyond the current TDL berm. The first part being it relieves some concerns that there wasn't quite enough room to fit in Small World/Be our Guest and a whole other D/E-ticket.

The second VERY interesting part is the expansion beyond the berm that they are not using for fantasyland.

Especially when one considers access to that area could easily be achieved in between Star Tours/Space Mountain... it kind of makes one wonder if an overseas Star Wars addition is in the early planning stages for TDL.

I could be wrong, but I interpreted the dotted lines as belonging to the current/announced expansion plans. It could simply be that the bold lines indicate guest visible/accessible areas while the larger dotted areas include all the backstage buildings that will be built. I read elsewhere that TDL currently does not have the backstage facilities needed to accommodate the extensive construction over the next few years, and this is what reclaiming part of the parking lot will accomplish.

 

[Rteetz]

I don't see Disney dropping a hotel that charges $100-$400/night for a room for a parking lot that brings in $17/day per space.

It's also not a lot of room for a parking lot either.

So does disney add this to their three existing on property hotels?