A Spirited Perfect Ten

[WDW1974]

I'm curious... How does one move something from an "unsourced unattributed allegation" to something you'd accept as credible without citation or naming a source you'd accept?

Are you holding out for a secret recording of a phone conversation?

Sounds like it.

How often do you get proof in situations like this? That's just not what happens, sadly. I'd love to see the entire story told in the media. I've worked like he ll to see that happen. No one seems willing to anger Bob Iger and Co. Maybe I should take up the effort again, now that a top Shanghai official, heavily involved in the creation of the Shanghai Disneyland Resort has been jailed on graft charges related to the land on which the resort sits?

 

[bhg469]

The hatbot ghost is all about the tale and the 'one that got away...'

Its impossible for them to deliver anything that will satisfy the amount of built up anticipation fans have stored.

Anything and I mean anything is better than the fans pretending a cut fence post was a ring.

 

[WDW1974]

I referenced the Bengal tiger thing for a reason. I read it, thought it was ridiculous, and did something quite old school - I called the Central Florida Zoo for confirmation - which they didn't give me.

You called a zoo? Wow. Impressive.

Have you called the HuffPo? Have you called to Bob Iger's office? Have you reached out to Willow Bay ay USC? My gut says no to all of the above.

One situation was very easy to wade through, the other isn't. Again, you're not a moron, you get the difference.

What proof would I accept? A peep from the censored author would go a long way. But we are told we are far too plebeian to understand the ways of Mr. Snyder and his ilk. More to come on what his ilk is exactly if I feel like posting it.

Who among us here would remain silent if we had been censored by the CEO of a Fortune 100 company? Easy answer - no one. If the "Disney CEO fumbles his way into China" was a firecracker on Iger's front yard, then censorship by his wife would be a hand grenade in his crotch. Totally iresistable.

OK, so now we're going to attack the victim of the censorship? Not surprised. Perhaps, there is legal action at play? Perhaps, an agreement was reached? Perhaps, he's working on getting back at Bob in a much better way (I've been told that he's an expert on 'soft power' and one might wonder if he orchestrated this)?

Perhaps, none of the above. Perhaps, all of it.

Who really knows? But you also know it doesn't change the fact he was censored ... and it doesn't change the fact that someone high up the Shanghai food chain was just caught in a corruption web and is jailed and it doesn't change the fact that Iger has claimed something about an $800 million influx in capital to SDL that hasn't materialized. But those facts don't seem to matter to you.

 

[PhotoDave219]

No. He's waiting for the burning bush

Theres a Christina Hendricks joke here.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sounds like it.

How often do you get proof in situations like this? That's just not what happens, sadly. I'd love to see the entire story told in the media. I've worked like he ll to see that happen. No one seems willing to anger Bob Iger and Co. Maybe I should take up the effort again, now that a top Shanghai official, heavily involved in the creation of the Shanghai Disneyland Resort has been jailed on graft charges related to the land on which the resort sits?

I really hope the story does get out in the main stream media. I find the whole thing very interesting reading about it here, but I think maybe there's more to the story that isn't even out yet. Depending on how this all plays out it could be juicy enough to end up being a book.

 

[Phil12]

I really hope the story does get out in the main stream media. I find the whole thing very interesting reading about it here, but I think maybe there's more to the story that isn't even out yet. Depending on how this all plays out it could be juicy enough to end up being a book.

Or, there could be no story at all. The "story" thus far is a series of seemingly unrelated events that Spirit has attempted to tie together into a direct cause and effect relationship. We have no evidence to suggest that any of these events are interrelated.

Spirit mentioned that he had spoken to a journalist who refused to write about this "story" because they were lacking any proof. So let's wait to see if any journalist finds some evidence.

 

[fillerup]

Shall I call you a monkey, if we're going to go with disparaging nicknames and all?

I asked you very simply what it would it take to make you believe what I know to be true by placing out a 'what if?' So, go place your strawman off with your tinfoil hat collection and 'I hate the Spirit' tee collection.
You really are worried about me smearing Bob Iger and/or his wife? Boy, that's beyond laughable. Why don't you contact them about it if it bothers you so much. Tell them that some anonymous person on an Internet fan forum is saying bad things about them. Yeah ... I can hear the laughter from here (not that you'd be able to get them, I'm talking about their fourth level assistants!)

And malignant? You been looking at your word of the day?

I can only wonder if this site isn't an appropriate forum to discuss the folks at the highest levels of The Walt Disney Company and their choices, their decisions, their leadership abilities or lack thereof, then where? Maybe I should stop ripping Jeff Smisek on Flyer Talk because how can the man (head of United Airlines for those who don't know and quite vile) defend himself there ... maybe I should rip him here as well as the good folks who run the wonderfully corrupt Home Depot?

No, you didn't ask for my source, but you asked for proof. The only way I can offer it, indeed the only way I can offer it in 98% of cases here, is by naming names. I don't think you're an idiot, maybe unpleasant but not an idiot. I can't place it out here and you know it, but it doesn't make the facts any different. You just don't have confirmation. And, again, if I gave you a name or names here, all you'd do is say they have agendas, they hate Iger and they can't be believed. Not that I ever would.



No, that statement is false. It's only true for you and those who choose to not believe me. It does NOT change a d@mn thing.



You are a flat out liar here. Anyone who wants to can go read the few posts I dropped on that thread. It was something someone else posted and many commented on. I questioned how it could possibly be true as it sounded absurd but did say that I could, sadly, see anything being true at WDW. But, it didn't come from me, and I led no such charge.

You are actually guilty of intellectual laziness here yourself. I put out what I know to be true. I put out information to back it up and make people understand why it is very plausible. And I let people draw their own conclusions.

You want absolute proof in your hands. You want official statements from Disney, Iger, the HuffPo, the author, the Chinese leadership etc...when you know none will be forthcoming. And you'd simply take those official statements as what? Fact or would you say they're just another opinion like that Spirit guy on the Internet?

It all comes down to you believing what you choose to, what makes you feel warm at night, what fits your world view. I'm OK with that. I wonder why you'd waste your time reading and responding to anything on this thread when you know most of what is here won't make you a happy creature. But you do ...you just can't quit me, I guess.



I am just stating facts. You apparently liked that one because it fit your narrative here. See, I don't go through life picking and choosing what facts I'll accept and what ones I won't. It likely makes me far angrier than you, but it also likely makes me far better-informed.

Shall I call you a monkey, if we're going to go with disparaging nicknames and all?

I asked you very simply what it would it take to make you believe what I know to be true by placing out a 'what if?' So, go place your strawman off with your tinfoil hat collection and 'I hate the Spirit' tee collection.
You really are worried about me smearing Bob Iger and/or his wife? Boy, that's beyond laughable. Why don't you contact them about it if it bothers you so much. Tell them that some anonymous person on an Internet fan forum is saying bad things about them. Yeah ... I can hear the laughter from here (not that you'd be able to get them, I'm talking about their fourth level assistants!)

And malignant? You been looking at your word of the day?

I can only wonder if this site isn't an appropriate forum to discuss the folks at the highest levels of The Walt Disney Company and their choices, their decisions, their leadership abilities or lack thereof, then where? Maybe I should stop ripping Jeff Smisek on Flyer Talk because how can the man (head of United Airlines for those who don't know and quite vile) defend himself there ... maybe I should rip him here as well as the good folks who run the wonderfully corrupt Home Depot?

No, you didn't ask for my source, but you asked for proof. The only way I can offer it, indeed the only way I can offer it in 98% of cases here, is by naming names. I don't think you're an idiot, maybe unpleasant but not an idiot. I can't place it out here and you know it, but it doesn't make the facts any different. You just don't have confirmation. And, again, if I gave you a name or names here, all you'd do is say they have agendas, they hate Iger and they can't be believed. Not that I ever would.



No, that statement is false. It's only true for you and those who choose to not believe me. It does NOT change a d@mn thing.



You are a flat out liar here. Anyone who wants to can go read the few posts I dropped on that thread. It was something someone else posted and many commented on. I questioned how it could possibly be true as it sounded absurd but did say that I could, sadly, see anything being true at WDW. But, it didn't come from me, and I led no such charge.

You are actually guilty of intellectual laziness here yourself. I put out what I know to be true. I put out information to back it up and make people understand why it is very plausible. And I let people draw their own conclusions.

You want absolute proof in your hands. You want official statements from Disney, Iger, the HuffPo, the author, the Chinese leadership etc...when you know none will be forthcoming. And you'd simply take those official statements as what? Fact or would you say they're just another opinion like that Spirit guy on the Internet?

It all comes down to you believing what you choose to, what makes you feel warm at night, what fits your world view. I'm OK with that. I wonder why you'd waste your time reading and responding to anything on this thread when you know most of what is here won't make you a happy creature. But you do ...you just can't quit me, I guess.



I am just stating facts. You apparently liked that one because it fit your narrative here. See, I don't go through life picking and choosing what facts I'll accept and what ones I won't. It likely makes me far angrier than you, but it also likely makes me far better-informed.

You're right about one thing - the nickname thing was cheap and juvenile. Since I'm neither, I've edited the previous post accordingly.

Let me set you straight on a few things.

I don't hate you Mr. '74 and I wouldn't wear the tshirt if they were 2 for 10 at the local mall. But feel free to play the martyr if that floats your boat.

Not in the habit of hating people I don't know. Wasted emotion. Now, I might hate you if I knew you. Or I might think you were the greatest guy since John Paul 23. Impossible to know, isn't it?

Criticism of Eiger is a perfectly valid pursuit around here. I happen to think he's been an exceptionally bad leader for the Disney company. And I would describe Willow Bay's appointment as Director of Annenberg as comical if it weren't so utterly egregious.

Malignant? No, not my word of the day. I just happen to think it's a perfectly apt description of a few of the things you post around here. And you know exactly what I was referring to when I used the word.

You need to relax and get me out from under your skin. After all, I'm just another anonymous internet poster like you.

Have a magical day.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Fulton's will be closing soon

 

[Phil12]

You're right about one thing - the nickname thing was cheap and juvenile. Since I'm neither, I've edited the previous post accordingly.

I thought it was a typo. The U is right next to the I on the keyboard and I figured you must be a fast typist so you skipped over the other I by mistake. I'm a slow typist so I can't use that excuse. When I make a mistake like that it's due to rotten typing.

 

[TalkingHead]

You called a zoo? Wow. Impressive.

And people say you're not polite! That's literally the nicest thing you could say in response to someone bragging that they called a zoo to investigate a Disney internet rumor.

 

[TalkingHead]

It's also funny how you can predict what a post will say just by looking at the likes.

If the only likes on a post are from Tigger and Phil, you can almost guarantee it's a pro-Disney/anti-Spirit comment.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Spirited Late Night Quickee:

Oh, c'mon, y'all know you want one ... and I'm in position to deliver. And since I just was confirmed this ... well, why not put it out.

Fulton's will be closing soon at TSFkaDD. Now, please don't tell a certain Empress because he'll get all up in there as the kids used to say in like 2011.

As I was told, Levy's restaurants will still operate a location out of the one-time vessel named for Walt Disney's wife, Lilian. It will be a new concept and a nautical one.

I don't have a timeline on its closing or when its replacement might debut. Its closure is likely due to multiple factors, including all the new locations opening up.

While it in no way had the class of the Empress Lilly, I will miss it as it was one of my favorite on-property lunch locales. And even though I lost my taste for lobster (my childhood favorite food) about the time I ended college, I always appreciated that -- say unlike The Coral Reef -- this was a seafood restaurant that served lobster and not a pork chop. It had what I felt was the best burger on WDW property the last 15 years -- and it was once a phenomenal deal at $9.99 with a side before a 20% AP discount. It now is something like $17.99 or typical Disney pricing, but still just as good and still with that discount.

(On a side note, I'm thinking of being like a Lifestyler and asking for donations from my fans, so I can eat a $49 steak with $21 mushrooms and $21 asparagus and $10 dessert at The Boathouse on my next visit ...if the whores can get freebies, why shouldn't a Faux Top One Percenter?)

I can eat a quality burger and great seafood at 5000 places within my city. Disney is not in the business of providing the same but then in some devilishly hot swamp hellhole. No, Disney is in the business of creating a themed environment to serve that food in, or even, for the romantics, it is in the business of creating a dreamworld. So smokestacks and a revolving paddlewheel are everything.

Fulton's has always been a joke, a disgrace. A paddlewheel steamboat that does not even try to look like one anymore. It is WDW parasiting itself. One eats at Fulton's because SSE is great and Fultons happens to be nearby. It is not a destination of itself.


The new nautical theme might look great, but to me misses the mark. To theme a ship to a nautical theme is akin to theming Norway to a theme inspired by it. A paddlewheel steamboat ought to be themed to resemble....a boat. Not to a location (that would be not even place) that refers to a boat. The interior of the Empress structure is given: anything one could find on a riverboat in the classic North American paddlewheel steamboat era.

I shall not make mention of the class and sophistication the old Empress had. Dignity, although so close in word form, is no longer a consideration for Disney. I'll settle for any restaurant where eating with one's fingers is frowned upon.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I'm curious... How does one move something from an "unsourced unattributed allegation" to something you'd accept as credible without citation or naming a source you'd accept?

Are you holding out for a secret recording of a phone conversation?

I'd be holding out for even a single remark from the brutally censored author, who apparently can't speak his mind for fear of some model spouse despite being aligned with one of the world's largest media corporations that holds 700 tv stations.

Also, the burden of proof is not to proof a negative - that Billy Billionaire has not been censored. Which also by extension means one does not need to show how it could be proved, or even made credible. That burden too rests upon those stating any allegation.

 

[WDWFigment]

Your thoughts and opinions are always welcome here, Tom. I actually was thinking about you earlier ... as I chowed down on a Fudd's burger!

Not having a Disney Channel in China is huge. It is what introduces and spreads the BRAND across this vast, populous nation. Bob Iger said it himself in that 2005 NYT story that I put out here earlier. Bob said he wouldn't enter China in terms of building SDL without it. Bob either failed or lied or both.

Also, you are viewing the Disney Channel here to be what would be seen there. It would be a VASTLY different product and one that most here would like better, if it wasn't in Mandarin. It would likely feature everything from classic shorts to animated features to old Disney TV shows to new local content and content designed to introduce IP that, again, isn't nearly as known as people here seem to think.

(Haven't you gotten some of those great HKDL stickers that are handed out to teach the audience who the characters are?)

The Disney Channel that is here in the USA and squarely aimed at tweens would not be the product on offer in China if it were allowed. The Disney Channel debuted in Germany when I was there a year ago January and the content ran the gamut of classic animation to reruns of the original Muppet Show to some programs that are more recent and aimed at the younger audience.

I don't know, at this point, what can or can't be read into Cinderella's success in China, but I do know that people didn't rush out to see it because they were in love with Walt's 1950s animated version. I'd bet most of the audiences were unaware that film even exists.



Agreed. I'm not sure what he thinks of the project at all. I certainly don't think he believes it is needed, but does he believe it should be desired (and UNI's Beijing Resort as well)? That is a question worth following in the years ahead.



Politics always plays a role. Always. The root doesn't change. They're all doing it, but who gets targeted absolutely comes down to politics. And just because ''everyone is doing it'' doesn't make it right (not saying you are saying that, but many do focus on that when talking business in China!)



Nah. You just put your Tinfoil Mouse Ears on! Everything is fine. Again, that explains everything from Bob Iger never being seen photographed -- no Disney official or character being photographed -- on site at SDL to the HuffPo Op-Ed being censored to ... well, just about any little thing that you look at and say ''that's strange!''

But don't worry. Put your trust in the Weatherman, sit back and get ready to write a Grog Grotto Review because that's what interests most fans. They never see the big picture. Never. What Al Lutz accomplished in Anaheim is truly a miracle that will never be repeated.



I wouldn't say that's my biggest concern, but it's right up there ... and there are plenty others. I still look forward to it, but I can't help but think that I'm looking forward to it more than Iger at this point!

Since this seems to be a recurring thing here, I want to clarify that my love of In-N-Out is based upon the totality of the circumstances: it's a very good burger at an inexpensive price prepared by friendly employees who are well-paid by a company that understands corporate responsibility. I admire and respect In-N-Out as a company as much as I like their burgers. I don't claim their burgers are the best on the planet--but I do think they are the best value for money. (A Double-Double is $3.60...that's cheaper than a Big Mac, let alone one of the other gourmet burger places, where prices typically start around $8.)

I guess I should have assumed that about the Disney Channel. In a way, that's unfortunate. The rest of the world really needs to be exposed to the greatness that is Dog with a Blog.

My point about Cinderella is exactly the one that you made. That audience probably isn't familiar with the animated versions of any of these stories, so perhaps the live action versions are a way to bring that Disney IP (I realize most of these stories are not actually Disney IP, but perception is reality, and they have become de facto Disney IP over time, I think). I don't know if that's even remotely the case, but it wouldn't be a bad idea...

Hey now, my Grog Grotto review will change the world. Okay, not at all. However, I don't think it's fair to begrudge the disinterest of others on this Shanghai story. It fascinates me, but I don't blame those who don't care. For many people--intelligent people--Disney is an escape. Likewise, the places where Disney is discussed online are escapes.

Obviously, there is danger in living in a fantasy world full-time (you point this out with regularity when it comes to certain fans), but everyone enjoys their own varieties of escapist entertainment. That doesn't necessarily make them dense or focused on the "wrong things," just interested in certain topics for different purposes. I like the "heavy" as well as the light-hearted sides of things when it comes to Disney, but I can appreciate that many others only want one or the other.

 

[WDWFigment]

I'd be holding out for even a single remark from the brutally censored author, who apparently can't speak his mind for fear of some model spouse despite being aligned with one of the world's largest media corporations that holds 700 tv stations.

Also, the burden of proof is not to proof a negative - that Billy Billionaire has not been censored. Which also by extension means one does not need to show how it could be proved, or even made credible. That burden too rests upon those stating any allegation.

I wouldn't be so quick to conflate an internet forum for a court of law.

 

[WDWFigment]

The hatbot ghost is all about the tale and the 'one that got away...'

Its impossible for them to deliver anything that will satisfy the amount of built up anticipation fans have stored.

I've been thinking about this, and wondering what the ultimate satisfaction concerning the Hatbox Ghost will be. Ultimately, I'm glad they're adding him, even if it is mostly fan service, but then again, I do think it'll be tough to live up to the hype.

As a bit of a corollary, they've released so much Hatbox Ghost merchandise over the last couple of years that I feel like the fun tale of the 'one that got away' had morphed into 'the legend that we're milking for merchandising revenue', making that legend a little less 'special' anyway.

 

[GoofGoof]

Or, there could be no story at all. The "story" thus far is a series of seemingly unrelated events that Spirit has attempted to tie together into a direct cause and effect relationship. We have no evidence to suggest that any of these events are interrelated.

Spirit mentioned that he had spoken to a journalist who refused to write about this "story" because they were lacking any proof. So let's wait to see if any journalist finds some evidence.

Think of it this way, what if those seemingly unrelated events all turn out to be related? It would be one heck of story. Mr Spirit isn't putting this stuff out there for profit. He seems to have done a good bit of digging on his own. Imagine what a reporter with considerable resources at his/her disposal could do.

 

[andysol]

It's also funny how you can predict what a post will say just by looking at the likes.

If the only likes on a post are from Tigger and Phil, you can almost guarantee it's a pro-Disney/anti-Spirit comment.

Likewise, if I see that @ford91exploder liked one of my comments I wonder what I said wrong.

 

[FigmentJedi]

So with the new digital Star Wars re-release, people are fussing about the new Lucasfilm logo attached to them, which'll probably be what we'll be seeing with the new films.


Personally, I'm far more concerned with the question of "Will they redo the Castle Intro with a John Williams reindition of When You Wish Upon a Star?" because that'd just be beautiful.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I've been thinking about this, and wondering what the ultimate satisfaction concerning the Hatbox Ghost will be. Ultimately, I'm glad they're adding him, even if it is mostly fan service, but then again, I do think it'll be tough to live up to the hype.

As a bit of a corollary, they've released so much Hatbox Ghost merchandise over the last couple of years that I feel like the fun tale of the 'one that got away' had morphed into 'the legend that we're milking for merchandising revenue', making that legend a little less 'special' anyway.

If the Hatbox Ghost was in the Mansion all along, it would be on par with the Auctioneer in Pirates. It would be a prominent figure in the attraction, but you wouldn't see the level of merchandise you see for the hatbox ghost.