A Spirited Perfect Ten

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Until Disney opens its books, all we can do is speculate using numbers that Disney publishes. So ...

Let's speculate. :)

Disneyland Paris (DLP) started hitting Disney's books in the second half of FY2004. It might surprise many but, 2014's abysmal performance aside, DLP has positively contributed to operating income most years since 2004. However, as you suggest, margins have not been good.

The thing to recall is that the DLP numbers proportioned to Disney's Parks & Resorts (P&R) are just a fraction of the segment's overall numbers. It's somewhat akin to hotel occupancy; DLR could have a horrible occupancy but since WDW makes up about 89% of all domestic hotel capacity, domestic hotel occupancy overwhelmingly is about what's happening at WDW.

The overall theme park operating margin is similar. Last year, Disney's domestic operations accounted for 82% of P&R revenue, and let's not forget that the remaining 18% included DLP, HKDL, and royalties from TDL. Effectively, DLP is a fraction of a fraction.

There is no question that DLP pulls the overall number down but the impact on margin is perhaps 2%, especially since Disney collects management fees from DLP and HKDL. In recent years, Disney's P&R margin is significantly worse than 2% when compared to WDW's Golden Age.

Don't get me wrong. Disney's international operations are pulling P&R's numbers down but it would be incomplete to heap P&R's lackluster operating margin solely on DLP.

That's a reason to question how P&R is being run. Why is Disney sinking billions into Shanghai if it's unhappy with overseas results? Perhaps Shanghai is about Iger's ego more than anything else? Perhaps the "Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China" article had to be deleted exactly because it raised valid concerns?

Other factors should more than offset the negative impact of international operations:
  • In recent years, Disney has increased prices faster than costs. This has improved margins but P&R is still well below its historical average.
  • Domestic operations are experiencing record crowds. The incremental costs of handling an extra 10,000 Guests per day are much less than the costs of handling the first 10,000 Guests.
  • Disney added 2 large cruise ships that are running at near-100% capacity and produce strong margins. DCL is perhaps the most expensive major cruise line in the world.
All things considered, Disney's domestic margins should be higher than what they used to be, more than offsetting poor international performance.

Regarding hotels, please recall that comparatively few hotels have been constructed this century. Therefore, it would be misleading to suggest that today's P&R margins are lower than they once were because of hotels. After all, Disney has increased rack rates considerably. Like theme park prices, hotel margins should be up as a result of these higher prices. If they are not, then something has changed to drive hotel margins down. What might it be?

One possibility is that Disney has a heck of a lot more DVC rooms.


Since the start of the century (and the start of the decline of Disney's margins), Disney has more than tripled the number of timeshare rooms. Guests who used to pay higher hotel rates are now paying a premium one year and paying greatly reduced rates for the next 49 years. It's even affecting occupancy (and margins) at the Moderate Resorts.

I'm a DVC member but I've railed against the financial evils of DVC for some time. They are hurting margins since they steal from future profits; great for a CEO who wants a big, fat bonus this year but bad for the next CEO. This is not an attack on DVC members. However, this is an indictment of Disney's current management, who are more concerned with this year's stock options than with the long-term profitability of the business they are supposed to steward.

That's the point. By constantly focusing on squeezing out a few more pennies this year, Disney's management creates new problems that affect profitability later.

To be clear, DVC is not the only reason for lower margins. However, it is representative of a corporate culture that's more concerned about immediate returns over long-term growth. As I've previously written, if Disney's current management was running the company in the 1980s, today's WDW would consist of the Magic Kingdom, Downtown Disney, and a bunch of timeshares. :banghead:

But they'd sure as heck have bought back a lot of company stock. :arghh:

Universal, which has had similar price increases as Disney in recent years, has seen its operating margin soar to over 30%. The difference is that Universal invested intelligently in its domestic parks and is reaping the rewards. And they are not building timeshares. ;)

Instead of investing in Disney's single biggest money-making machine, Disney has looked for ways to squeeze pennies out of WDW. It's got a small army of intelligent and well-compensated professionals trying to figure out how to improve margins on napkins by 0.0000005 cents per unit but is unwilling to figure out how to grow P&R revenue by more than the unremarkable 5.9% it's averaged under Iger.

Failure to properly capitalize on the awesome earning power of WDW, along with other questionable decisions this century such as letting J.K. Rowling walk, have hurt P&R profitability.
m8VnNIS.gif

best explanation ever!
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
There are also some of the most obnoxious people I've ever met on the planet. And you've done a good job at reinforcing that.

And frankly if you were a better trainer, these children wouldn't be wearing their IDs out while they were on stage and not working.
So, just because he was a trainer, he's responsible for all CPs across property??
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
This is compounded by the fact that they are actively encouraged NOT to bring their cars. Motorcycles and bicycles are also banned. Their only form of entertainment is the parks aside from the once every other week bus to florida mall.
Don't forget House of Blues. Sundays and Wednesdays. Direct bus from the complexes makes it easy to get to and safe to get back.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
Ahh, but you're wrong--lifestylers have plenty of cash. No basements in Florida, but if they live in their parents' condo (true story), they have plenty of disposable income, not paying rent and all. Even the others, generally no kids and a decent enough job to afford time to obsess over Disney, so extra disposable income. Think ***** (no rhyme intended).

Again, the exception is CPs or young CMs. The scourge of the Adventurers Club in its final year, when most were kicked out of every other PI venue due to age. A lot of CPs are obsessive like lifestylers, but they're not who we are talking about. And no, they can't afford the drinks at Sam's anymore than they could afford them at PI. But PI at least offered activities other than drinking. Much more a bar than an attraction, hype aside.
Yes they can, it'll just be a large chunk of their paycheck. But in my experience with CPs, they like to split with 2-3 other CPs (possibly more) on high cost items so that they only end up paying a fraction of the actual cost.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
He's not alone, It is a concrete wasteland all for the sake of 30 minutes at night.
It's much more than 30 minutes. Right now in peak time it's from about 7-after midnight (last MSEP is 12:15 all this week) and you also have to account for all of the Dream Along With Mickey shows throughout the day.

Beyond that, it makes it incredibly easier for CM's to get through the crowds during busy times when needed, especially when pushing something on wheels and trying to navigate crowds. The extra space is much appreciated.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I know all you can do is speculate (but it is seems like you may have some deep background so it's very well educated speculation), but do you think the 5000+ Value hotel rooms they've added since 1999 could've lowered the operating margins in any discernable way? Are those rooms too comparably small to have a major effect on the bigger picture?

Just thought about my question and I realized I don't need to waste your time. The effects would be marginal as it's share of total revenue would be under that of Honk Kong Disneyland and other larger ventures. It could only move the needle slightly.
WDW has 5 Value Resorts, 3 of which were opened when P&R's margins were strong.

Remember, margin is not just about the price of something to the buyer; it's also about its cost to the seller. Disney's Value Resorts are basic motels with Disney theming. Prices at the cafeteria are high. The ratio of CM-to-Guest is low. Just because Value Resorts cost less doesn't necessarily mean they have lower margins.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
First, fireworks never used to be a nightly thing until the past 20 years or so. They were a weekend thing for ages.

Now the fireworks standing in new fantasyland, I dig it. Feels like fireworks in the round all the time.

I do like the way The castle has always framed the fireworks. And I am looking forward to seeing the hub firsthand.... I just wish it wAs real grass.
Honestly I don't think you really do. Real grass would be impossible to maintain with the amount of foot traffic that area gets. Then we'd just be complaining that the area always has dead grass. Sometimes you have to pick your battles.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
As for the hub? I miss the trees. I miss the shade. I miss benches. I miss being able to get out of the brutal sun.

In three of the four parks, they become nothing but concrete wastelands have endless open space where you dying of the heat.

I think shade is very very important when it comes to having average daily attendance of 50,000 people and an average temperature over 90°.
The ironic part of this post is that DAK, the park i assume you were referring to that still has shade, is often talked about as the hottest park... because of the immense amount of trees. The density of trees (the leaves specifically) holds in the heat and makes it feel hotter than it really is.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
WDW has 5 Value Resorts, 3 of which were opened when P&R's margins were strong.

Remember, margin is not just about the price of something to the buyer; it's also about its cost to the seller. Disney's Value Resorts are basic motels with Disney theming. Prices at the cafeteria are high. The ratio of CM-to-Guest is low. Just because Value Resorts cost less doesn't necessarily mean they have lower margins.

It's even possible margins are higher at the values
 

Cletus

Well-Known Member
It seems that Comcast sees the business for exactly what it is - a Theme Park Business - which can be very successful and profitable if run that way.

Understanding that, they have the Park experience as their main driver incl revenue. Cutting edge technology, immersion and rides.

Keep it fresh, keep it new, keep'em coming.....

Nice first post, clsteve! ;)
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
It's ok to break labor laws as long as Disney does it. Then it's MAGICal

Where on earth did you get that idea? All I said was Disney has stated the Disneyland band is staying and we don't know what is going on so don't jump to conclusions. Which is what I see you have done.

Edit: and for the record this is what members were told. It is a revamp and the band is union so if any labor laws were being broken as you suggested the union would be all over Disney.

"musicians were told that band will be re-auditioned with the same instrumentation plus two musicians. There is to be new music and the job will be more “acting intensive.” Veteran band members will continue full-time employment in smaller bands; formerly “break-out” groups from the larger ensemble for an indeterminate period of time, or they will be given the option to audition for this new iteration of their old job. This of course raises many questions, the answers to which are evolving.

The current Band’s last performance will be the day before Disneyland’s 60th anniversary; the Band will have been in continuous service for all of those years; it is, as the Disney Parks Blog points out, “iconic.” Musicians have been performing in it for 10, 20, up to 42 years. It is a first rate, finely honed, professional ensemble; its members have been providing exemplary service both the Park and the community for decades. Happy anniversary to all."
 
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ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
My point was you were talking about it like it was something that was a recent change.

The greater point which you missed is with a hub retheming they had an opportunity to select a design unique to WDW instead they chose to use a generic design from a industrial supply catalog. #FAIL,

I could see the generic ones during the construction phase if they did not want to telegraph the design choices but right now it's pretty obvious that Cheap-N-Nasty rules the day, Show be D----ed. What's next recycled 55 gallon drums?
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
The greater point which you missed is with a hub retheming they had an opportunity to select a design unique to WDW instead they chose to use a generic design from a industrial supply catalog. #FAIL,

I could see the generic ones during the construction phase if they did not want to telegraph the design choices but right now it's pretty obvious that Cheap-N-Nasty rules the day, Show be D----ed. What's next recycled 55 gallon drums?
It would be thematically correct for Chester& Hester's.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
It would be thematically correct for Chester& Hester's.

Had not thought of that, yes a rusty recycled 55 gallon drum WOULD be thematically appropriate for Chester and Hesters, As it would be elsewhere in Harambe but the Mayor of Harambe (Joe Rohde) has too much civic pride.
 

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