A Spirited Perfect Ten

[DisneyOutsider]

I don't know about the concept of the hub, but there are plenty of pictures out there that show it how it was in the Swan Boat days.

Or, ya know, we could just look at it now. From swan boats to sidewalks.

Thanks for the reply. I agree that the trees are a much nicer overall aesthetic, but I would feel a little better about the change if it turned out that the 'thematic buffer' concept was just speculation and not something that was an integral part in the design of the hub. Whether it was intentional or just a side effect, I've never experienced this effect in the hub. I enjoy the hub the way it is now, but I would hate to think that today's Disney compromised the artistic integrity of the park's design in this way in order to pack in more people.

I haven't seen anyone provide any hard evidence of this design concept. In my minimal research I've actually found that the opposite may have been true: That the hub needed to be a place where you could stand and be able to view the surrounding lands in order to tell exactly where you needed/wanted to go next.

The way that some people refer to it on here as a fact makes me think that surely there is some literature or an interview or an article.. SOMETHING.. that substantiates it that they can point me to.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't know about the concept of the hub, but there are plenty of pictures out there that show it how it was in the Swan Boat days.

Or, ya know, we could just look at it now. From swan boats to sidewalks.

To be fair though there are still trees and water and flowers near the hub. This is probably a better "after" shot to your before:

The before is still much more lush and vibrant.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What's the next move when attendance hits another plateau and even the new hub design gets jammed and "dangerous" after Wishes let's out? Attendance will continue to rise so it's conceivable that it could reach that point.

On a separate note, I don't agree with the idea that the old hub was "dangerous" as if the new hub would be any more safe if pandemonium broke out.

I don't say that as a defense for any older hub designs either. But the same amount of people (if not more) are all still leaving at the same time and if they all started rushing for the exit the new hub design would not stop people.from trampling over little Sally. Kinda supports the idea that there are simply too many people in the MK sometimes.

Rails to trails...

 

[BrerJon]

That is exactly why the statement "Disney is a business" keeps coming up. It's OK to imagine Disney as more then a business, and I understand that feeling, but, when we start to lose grasp of reality to the degree that this implies then it calls to be asked, how much income would you be comfortable depriving a Disney Park of? How would you explain to the Board of Directors that this will be a long term way to maintain the status quo of the organization that relies on income for survival? How much would you cut it back? A quarter, half or more? Other than you like trees, what would you use for a reason to make that sacrifice?

As Lasseter said 'quality is the best business plan'. Sure there may not be dollars and cents benefits to planting trees, but details like that enriching the guest experience all add up, and combined might make the difference between someone feeling so relaxed and happy they book another vacation soon, or someone feeling they enjoyed it, but there's plenty other destinations to try next time.

 

[Cesar R M]

Life causes cancer....

Living also causes death.. who knew..

speaking of the death of humanity..

REPENT SINNERS..
theres now the worst nightmare for all sane people..
THE TABLET SELFIE STICK.

http://petapixel.com/2015/03/31/heads-up-the-tablet-selfie-stick-is-now-a-thing/

Staph is a commensurate bacteria on your skin, I'd avoid aspirating it, cutting yourself with it, or sticking it up your urethra... but nothing is going to happen "staph"-wise by sitting on it.

Contact dermatitis could be a concern for people, but real grass causes plenty of people allergic reactions too. I'd hazard a guess that this stuff is far more hypoallergenic.




Real grass is slippery, concrete retains a heck of a lot of heat and people sit on that all the time for the parades (I definitely had a too-hot curb experience in HKDL, but it eventually settled into a toasty bum). I don't think the grass retains more heat than concrete, but I'm basing that on all of the pictures of people happily rolling around on the stuff in the middle of the day.




I'm not trying to defend the fake grass by the way, hate it for aesthetic reasons, but the train of thought that it's going to harm people is a little over-the-top sensationalist.

I think the grass needs to pass the July-August days test to see how it handles heat.
As these days have been abnormally cold for WDW.

 

[Cesar R M]

Ironic..

...person who hates @WDW1974 's gut still reading and posting...
very ironic indeed.

 

[Nubs70]

Those were golden economic years as well though. Prices were still relatively low, energy prices were as well, wages were lower too. I don't think that the margins have anything to do with the quality issue. If it did how would one explain the over crowding of the parks now as opposed to then. I'm not saying that this is the case, but, if they have cut back so much on spending, slashing expenses everywhere all the while increasing income by boat loads, what would be the real reason for the smaller margins. Might it be because their over all income has increased so much along with the cost of doing business that the percentage of margin would automatically be smaller without the actual dollar figure decreasing at all, in fact, increasing?

I'm thinking it was a better business margin wise, but, you don't pay bills with margin, that takes real dollars and that has been at record highs and it doesn't matter how they got those dollars, whether it be through raised prices or improved quality... it is the spendable amount that matters in the long haul. At least it would to me and apparently does to the financial institutions as well. If given the choice of 30% of $1000.00 or 15% of $4000.00 I would go with the 15% every time. I know that you are pretty wise about those things so perhaps you could tell me what I am missing from that equation.

Margin drop is a function of middle management bloat. It would be interesting to take the previous graph and overlay SG&A as % of COGS.

 

[asianway]

Those were golden economic years as well though. Prices were still relatively low, energy prices were as well, wages were lower too. I don't think that the margins have anything to do with the quality issue. If it did how would one explain the over crowding of the parks now as opposed to then. I'm not saying that this is the case, but, if they have cut back so much on spending, slashing expenses everywhere all the while increasing income by boat loads, what would be the real reason for the smaller margins. Might it be because their over all income has increased so much along with the cost of doing business that the percentage of margin would automatically be smaller without the actual dollar figure decreasing at all, in fact, increasing?

I'm thinking it was a better business margin wise, but, you don't pay bills with margin, that takes real dollars and that has been at record highs and it doesn't matter how they got those dollars, whether it be through raised prices or improved quality... it is the spendable amount that matters in the long haul. At least it would to me and apparently does to the financial institutions as well. If given the choice of 30% of $1000.00 or 15% of $4000.00 I would go with the 15% every time. I know that you are pretty wise about those things so perhaps you could tell me what I am missing from that equation.

I thought you used to be an accountant? It all depends on how much I have invested in the business and my expected rate of return..,

 

[Cesar R M]

Those were golden economic years as well though. Prices were still relatively low, energy prices were as well, wages were lower too. I don't think that the margins have anything to do with the quality issue. If it did how would one explain the over crowding of the parks now as opposed to then. I'm not saying that this is the case, but, if they have cut back so much on spending, slashing expenses everywhere all the while increasing income by boat loads, what would be the real reason for the smaller margins. Might it be because their over all income has increased so much along with the cost of doing business that the percentage of margin would automatically be smaller without the actual dollar figure decreasing at all, in fact, increasing?

I'm thinking it was a better business margin wise, but, you don't pay bills with margin, that takes real dollars and that has been at record highs and it doesn't matter how they got those dollars, whether it be through raised prices or improved quality... it is the spendable amount that matters in the long haul. At least it would to me and apparently does to the financial institutions as well. If given the choice of 30% of $1000.00 or 15% of $4000.00 I would go with the 15% every time. I know that you are pretty wise about those things so perhaps you could tell me what I am missing from that equation.

Pretty sure that wage as degraded vs inflation thus it is a lot more convenient for executives right now.

 

[Spark70]

I have lurked among these Spirited corridors for quite some time without posting but came across some old photos taken barely a year after the MK opened that give some perspective on the "original" implementation of the hub. Note the scale of the planters & trees and absence of the castle stage in the background.

And for extra credit, here is a photo (same trip) taken adjacent to the carousel. Yes, the MK really was a park!

 

[DisneyOutsider]

I have lurked among these Spirited corridors for quite some time without posting but came across some old photos taken barely a year after the MK opened that give some perspective on the "original" implementation of the hub. Note the scale of the planters & trees and absence of the castle stage in the background.View attachment 88784

And for extra credit, here is a photo (same trip) taken adjacent to the carousel. Yes, the MK really was a park!

View attachment 88786

Now THERE'S some finely dressed citizens that would make @ford91exploder proud!

Awesome pics.. thanks for sharing.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Those were golden economic years as well though. Prices were still relatively low, energy prices were as well, wages were lower too. I don't think that the margins have anything to do with the quality issue. If it did how would one explain the over crowding of the parks now as opposed to then. I'm not saying that this is the case, but, if they have cut back so much on spending, slashing expenses everywhere all the while increasing income by boat loads, what would be the real reason for the smaller margins. Might it be because their over all income has increased so much along with the cost of doing business that the percentage of margin would automatically be smaller without the actual dollar figure decreasing at all, in fact, increasing?

I'm thinking it was a better business margin wise, but, you don't pay bills with margin, that takes real dollars and that has been at record highs and it doesn't matter how they got those dollars, whether it be through raised prices or improved quality... it is the spendable amount that matters in the long haul. At least it would to me and apparently does to the financial institutions as well. If given the choice of 30% of $1000.00 or 15% of $4000.00 I would go with the 15% every time. I know that you are pretty wise about those things so perhaps you could tell me what I am missing from that equation.

For the prices Disney charges today, Parks & Resorts' margins should be through the roof. Today's Disney should have obscene margins - like Universal's Theme Parks division has right now.

Instead, Parks & Resorts is clawing its way to reach the worst days of WDW's Golden Age.

During it's Golden Age, Disney built more, provided better quality & service, and charged less.

The following is across multiple ticket types, starting with a baseline value of "1" for both WDW ticket price and Median Household Income:

You've almost certainly seen me post this one before and explain it in depth.

The short of it is that WDW actually was a better place when it charged less.

Today's corporate Disney is like a bloated government bureaucracy. It's completely forgotten how to run its organization efficiently.

 

[Spark70]

Now THERE'S some finely dressed citizens that would make @ford91exploder proud!

Awesome pics.. thanks for sharing.

Yes, we had a firm grasp on the fashion of the day! Of course, this was in a day and age when "dressing" for the park did not mean cosplay.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The problem with the "Disney is a business" argument is that it pretends that Disney wasn't a business during what many consider to be its Golden Age.

Looking at Parks & Resorts Operating Margin since the opening of WDW:

View attachment 88781


If "Disney is a business" now, it sure was a better business back when it focused on quality more.

Quality is the best business plan.

 

[Goofyernmost]

For the prices Disney charges today, Parks & Resorts' margins should be through the roof. Today's Disney should have obscene margins - like Universal's Theme Parks division has right now.

Instead, Parks & Resorts is clawing its way to reach the worst days of WDW's Golden Age.

During it's Golden Age, Disney built more, provided better quality & service, and charged less.

The following is across multiple ticket types, starting with a baseline value of "1" for both WDW ticket price and Median Household Income:

View attachment 88789


You've almost certainly seen me post this one before and explain it in depth.

The short of it is that WDW actually was a better place when it charged less.

Today's corporate Disney is like a bloated government bureaucracy. It's completely forgotten how to run its organization efficiently.

So again, the resulting smaller margin is a result of poor money management and not a result of lessened quality, but that quality is a victim of poor management and not the reason for a smaller margin? Or are we looking at that as a "down the road" issue and not the current one?

 

[peter11435]

...person who hates @WDW1974 's gut still reading and posting...
very ironic indeed.

..People who hate the current state of WDW and find no enjoyment or stimulation in it. Yet still spend countless hours reading and posting about. That I will never understand.

 

[ParentsOf4]

..People who hate the current state of WDW and find no enjoyment or stimulation in it. Yet still spend countless hours reading and posting about. That I will never understand.

You mean like Chicago Cubs fans?

 

[spacemt354]

..People who hate the current state of WDW and find no enjoyment or stimulation in it. Yet still spend countless hours reading and posting about. That I will never understand.

Or maybe some people enjoy what the place meant to them a long time ago and are just frustrated with current management decisions.

That's why they keep coming back.

Though I could ask you, if you find no enjoyment or stimulation in this thread, why are you here?

 

[PhotoDave219]

..People who hate the current state of WDW and find no enjoyment or stimulation in it. Yet still spend countless hours reading and posting about. That I will never understand.

Wait. Who are you again?

 

[wogwog]

Living also causes death.. who knew..

speaking of the death of humanity..

REPENT SINNERS..
theres now the worst nightmare for all sane people..
THE TABLET SELFIE STICK.

http://petapixel.com/2015/03/31/heads-up-the-tablet-selfie-stick-is-now-a-thing/


I think the grass needs to pass the July-August days test to see how it handles heat.
As these days have been abnormally cold for WDW.

Is there a season when you can get a tag to hunt these sticks or are they open season like skeet? Pull.