A Spirited Perfect Ten

Next Big Thing

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
You sure on that MK number?

Last I heard, the upper limit was around 75,000 (down from 85,000 in the early 90s). I just can't fathom how they could hold that many people in an era where everyone has either a double-wide stroller, an ECV, a wheelchair etc ... I find the park damn near intolerable when the crowds hit 40K at MK.

There is nowhere near enough capacity and way too much dead zones (same could be said of every park, but at least EPCOT has huge walking paths).
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MK did over 100K on NYE this past year. It was not in anyway safe, especially considering the new plaza gardens area was still under construction.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
BrerJon said:
It's been re-ordered as safety, efficiency, courtesy, show, I think. Certainly making money is *far* more important than any amount of show.
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I thought it was efficiency, courtesy, safety and show these days based on current park operations,

There was a time when it was Show, Safety, Courtesy and Efficiency.
 
Funmeister

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
Staph is a commensurate bacteria on your skin, I'd avoid aspirating it, cutting yourself with it, or sticking it up your urethra... but nothing is going to happen "staph"-wise by sitting on it.

Contact dermatitis could be a concern for people, but real grass causes plenty of people allergic reactions too. I'd hazard a guess that this stuff is far more hypoallergenic.




Real grass is slippery, concrete retains a heck of a lot of heat and people sit on that all the time for the parades (I definitely had a too-hot curb experience in HKDL, but it eventually settled into a toasty bum). I don't think the grass retains more heat than concrete, but I'm basing that on all of the pictures of people happily rolling around on the stuff in the middle of the day.




I'm not trying to defend the fake grass by the way, hate it for aesthetic reasons, but the train of thought that it's going to harm people is a little over-the-top sensationalist.
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So what happens when kids are rough housing and they skin their knee(s) on the concrete patches mixed in with the fake grass? Staph or no staph (or other bacteria or whatever?) that can still cause a potential problem with bloodborne pathogeons?

I do not know your qualifications or if you are even qualified to answer this but so far you have the best answer...wouldn't that alone be a reason for concern?
 
MerlinTheGoat

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
The state POTC and Space Mountain are currently in make them sound like accidents waiting to happen (and falling rockwork in recent years as well as improper cast training for monorails and buses), safety is a concern that seems to be diminishing swiftly. Show is almost entirely dead or dying. Hard to tell whether there's any courtesy left, also seems on its way out. More like just letting guests have their way with bad behavior, seems more like disinterest with a smile and a "have a magical day".

And in actuality, i'd argue efficiency is on its death bed as well. Properly maintaining rides is more efficient than running them to failure and causing more money required in the long run. Fastpass and FP+have made a mess of lines, and crowd control is nonexistent. Chasing efficiency by forgoing the other three philosophies has ironically made everything LESS efficient. So really, i'd actually say all 4 classic Disney philosophies are dead or dying. The old guard unquestionably knew what they were doing and how to properly run the parks. Both for guests' sake as well as the profit driven execs.
 
GymLeaderPhil

GymLeaderPhil

Well-Known Member
MerlinTheGoat said:
The state POTC and Space Mountain are currently in make them sound like accidents waiting to happen (and falling rockwork in recent years as well as improper cast training for monorails and buses), safety is a concern that seems to be diminishing swiftly. Show is almost entirely dead or dying. Hard to tell whether there's any courtesy left, also seems on its way out. More like just letting guests have their way with bad behavior, seems more like disinterest with a smile and a "have a magical day".

And in actuality, i'd argue efficiency is on its death bed as well. Properly maintaining rides is more efficient than running them to failure and causing more money required in the long run. Fastpass and FP+have made a mess of lines, and crowd control is nonexistent. Chasing efficiency by forgoing the other three philosophies has ironically made everything LESS efficient. So really, i'd actually say all 4 classic Disney philosophies are dead or dying. The old guard unquestionably knew what they were doing and how to properly run the parks. Both for guests' sake as well as the profit driven execs.
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Actually the new Disney Basics are now Cash, Credit, Debit, or Gift Card.
 
DDLand

DDLand

Well-Known Member
ParentsOf4 said:
For the prices Disney charges today, Parks & Resorts' margins should be through the roof. Today's Disney should have obscene margins - like Universal's Theme Parks division has right now.

Instead, Parks & Resorts is clawing its way to reach the worst days of WDW's Golden Age.

During it's Golden Age, Disney built more, provided better quality & service, and charged less.

The following is across multiple ticket types, starting with a baseline value of "1" for both WDW ticket price and Median Household Income:

View attachment 88789


You've almost certainly seen me post this one before and explain it in depth.

The short of it is that WDW actually was a better place when it charged less.

Today's corporate Disney is like a bloated government bureaucracy. It's completely forgotten how to run its organization efficiently.
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ParentsOf4 said:
The problem with the "Disney is a business" argument is that it pretends that Disney wasn't a business during what many consider to be its Golden Age.

Looking at Parks & Resorts Operating Margin since the opening of WDW:

View attachment 88781


If "Disney is a business" now, it sure was a better business back when it focused on quality more. :)
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I feel like this is a little bit of an oversimplification. Just looking at the graph you see the massive fallout from Euro Disney having an enormous effect. Then items like initial problems with The Disneyland Resort and Disney's Animal Kingdom also make themselves known in the numbers. As well as two recessions. I'm just not confident in saying that the margins problems are directly attributable to Walt Disney World Resort operations in particular when they have multiple other properties dragging them down.

You bringing in Universal Studios into the mix suggests that they understand efficient Theme Park management better. That's actually an interesting premise. Do you think it has to do with Resort hotels? Disney has considerably more rooms then Universal.

Thanks! I'm a big fan!
 
Phil12

Phil12

Well-Known Member
ParentsOf4 said:
The problem with the "Disney is a business" argument is that it pretends that Disney wasn't a business during what many consider to be its Golden Age.

Looking at Parks & Resorts Operating Margin since the opening of WDW:

View attachment 88781


If "Disney is a business" now, it sure was a better business back when it focused on quality more. :)
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TWDC realizes that their margins are not what they once were. That's part of the reason why they did the hub renovation:

WDW took all the trees
And put them in a tree museum
And they're gonna charge the people
A dollar and a half just to see 'em
 
The Visionary Soul

The Visionary Soul

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
I can agree with the bolded part....with a caveat.
It doesn't look better than it has ever.

Nothing is/will be better than the tree-filled park like setting that the hub once had.
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Agreed with that 100%. But until projection technology improves immensely, we'll never get the big trees back.
 
BrianLo

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Funmeister said:
So what happens when kids are rough housing and they skin their knee(s) on the concrete patches mixed in with the fake grass? Staph or no staph (or other bacteria or whatever?) that can still cause a potential problem with bloodborne pathogeons?

I do not know your qualifications or if you are even qualified to answer this but so far you have the best answer...wouldn't that alone be a reason for concern?
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Sure, anything that tears the skin can introduce a pathogen, although you're more likely to pick up cellulitis than bacteremia from a skinned knee. That's more often than not from bacteria already colonized on ones body as well.

Is it more likely than any other surface to introduce a pathogen though? Probably not. Especially if it's constantly semi-sterilized under the Florida sun. Certainly not any more or less than what someone sits on or touches over the course of the day in the parks. I think I also found some of the reports you were referring to, but that's indoor astro-turf rather than something out in the sun.

Ironically to this whole conversation, my father picked up a staph aureus cellulitis from weed whacking about 10 years back. Even real grass/weeds could be a vessel.

That's why we have immune systems though.
 

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