A Spirited Perfect Ten

[FigmentJedi]

This Summer: George Clooney is Wilbur Robinson

 

[WDW1974]

Some Spirited Dim Sum: (WDW lovers should follow all the way to the end! as it's sure to deliver for them.)

Since the last bout of insanity is behind us and God only knows when the next will arrive, I wanted to discuss a few more morsels of info about Disney's SDL project, and indeed their entire relationship with the Central Government in Beijing, that should make shareholders and analysts and fanbois capable of seeing the big picture question the project and Disney's management.

(Yes, I am ready to hear all the reasons why I am thinking too much! And that's something I'll continue right on doing!)

First, y'all know who Bob Weis is, right? Imagineer. Lead designer of Disney-MGM Studios as well as two parks that never got off the drawing board in Disney's America and the Disney-MGM Studios Europe. Michael Eisner's fall guy when things got ugly with the uppity Virginian monied elite who didn't want a theme park ruining their pristine forests and historical sites ... so they made sure Disney wouldn't build so that 5-6 years later they got Super Walmarts, Carmax, Home Depot, strip centers and subdivisions galore. Guy who returned to WDI to 'fix' DCA with the carrot of being lead on SDL dangled before him.

So, he's riding herd on Disney's most important project of the 21st century and guess where he's spending most of his time? If you guessed Burbank, then you win a LE vinylmation provided you send me $129.99 plus shipping and handling.

Yes, for some reason(s), Bob is seen more often in SoCal than in Shanghai. I can already hear folks making excuses ''But you Disney-hating Spirit, he needs to be viewing the project from where the decisions are being made and ...'' yeah, I can't even type that without ROTFLMFAO as the kiddies used to say way back in say 2006.

Look, when HKDL was being built, Tom Morris spent the vast majority of his time on Lantau. When Euro Disney was being built, Tony Baxter basically lived in Paris.

But not this time?

(Anyone want to toss out the Ozzie's Razor deal here? Just love that ignorant response ...)

The answer, again, to anyone paying attention is that Disney doesn't even have direct day-to-day creative control of ''their' (God, I can't stop laughing when I type this!) resort.

Bob has a great blog, btw. OK, not really great, but enlightening. I'm sorta shocked no one has linked to it here yet.

There be pics on Bob's Blog (nope, none of Iger, Staggs, Rasulo, Mickey, Goofy, Buzz or Olaf on-site). Funny thing is all the parks pics seem to come from official channels. No, not from Zenia and her flying monkeys. Nope, from Chinese media. ... Again, the lead creative of the park being built by the world's No. 1 media company can't put out anything that actually comes from Disney.

Does any of this strike you as the least bit odd?

How about this dumpling: the blog isn't hosted in the USA, but in China. That means it is subject to being edited, censored etc by the government. Why would Bob opt to host a blog for Americans/Westerners in China? This isn't meant for the locals there at all.

Look I'll keep saying this, Disney will keep cringing, the financial press and people who cover Disney will keep on ignoring it until they can't any longer, but Bob Iger (yes, he of the Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China fame) doesn't control a damn thing over there. He signed a bad deal. A deal Michael Eisner never would have agreed to. A deal that he thinks will cement his legacy at the company (because, again, buying the creative output of others only proves that you are good at shopping. It isn't legacy building stuff.) And shareholders ... and even fans of WDW will wind up paying the price down the line because, much like with HKDL's close to $1 billion expansion that was financed entirely by Disney, when the CCP tells Iger to put a few billion more worth of attractions in that park, he's gotta keep his numbers looking good somehow ... and we all know how he does that. How he'll continue to do that.

You know what that means. A continued stale MK that hasn't added a major attraction since 1992. An EPCOT that gets by on food and booze and retail sales. Timeshares galore. Price increases twice a year. Upcharing up your rear end. Etc ... and if there's a project that looks great and actually makes it thru to Iger's desk when the CCP demands those additions, nothing will come to WDW. Bank on it.

So, chew on that a bit and pass the hot mustard. I can't get me enough of that stuff.

Oh, BTW, amusing anecdote, but both Bob Weis and MDE both steadfastly refuse to call TPFKaTD-MGMS by anything other than 'Disney-MGM' to this day. No DHS or soon to likely be DHA or something close.

 

[WDW1974]

Skywalker Ranch East ... hmm ...

 

[WDW1974]

Let's move to style. Since Tim Gunn isn't around and the Fasion Police tossed the lovely Kathy Griffin ... I'll page @TP2000 (BTW, Angie M and I are looking forward to hopefully meeting you out west later this year!) here.

Remember Nick Franklin? How soon they forget.

He was the 'brains' behind NGE. The guy who became the fall guy last year when it was more than obvious the project would never live up to its hype or financial promises. The guy who dressed for media appearances like ... well, TP can handle that one.

I recall about a year ago being (OK, Spirited Disclosure: I may have attended Hebrew School with Nick! To be fair, though, he dressed better back then!) sold the idea that Nick (who basically failed at every major project he took on at Disney) was really a great exec and would immediately go to NBC-UNI and show Disney a thing or three. Now, that was totally the opposite of what my 'peeps' told me, but this dude just kept selling and selling this notion that I was missing something.

Anyone know where he is now? Near as I can tell, he's unemployed and living with his wife and kids in Santa Monica. Of course, his wife has a sweet position with James Cameron's production company, one that she started I believe right around fall of 2011 (I know ... just one amazing coincidence after another.)

BTW, someone has told me that the Wired story/PR piece on NGE was changed a bit from when it first appeared (basically, that a comment about it being over budget just disappeared ... just like that HuffPo Op-Ed that The Thin-Skinned Weatherman couldn't handle.) Anyone see both versions?

I just skimmed it originally so I don't really recall ...

 

[PhotoDave219]

First, y'all know who Bob Weis is, right? Imagineer. Lead designer of Disney-MGM Studios as well as two parks that never got off the drawing board in Disney's America and the Disney-MGM Studios Europe. Michael Eisner's fall guy when things got ugly with the uppity Virginian monied elite who didn't want a theme park ruining their pristine forests and historical sites ... so they made sure Disney wouldn't build so that 5-6 years later they got Super Walmarts, Carmax, Home Depot, strip centers and subdivisions galore. Guy who returned to WDI to 'fix' DCA with the carrot of being lead on SDL dangled before him.

So thats where I live now. A mere five miles away from where the proposed park would have been.

Everything bad that the Anti-Disney crowd said would happen came to pass. Traffic on Rte 15 & I 66 are a disaster. Strip malls. Wal-Mart. McMansions. Lots of half-million dollar homes. Lots of added traffic. Lots of crap.

So who got rich? Developers. No added theme park, no added employer. And a boatload of traffic going through the "rural crescent" and the Battlefield that they so wished to preserve.....

 

[WDW1974]

People scoff at networks like RT as pure Russian propaganda (not disputing the notion), but they fail to understand that the vast majority of press in this country is bought and paid for by the corporations of this country. I read an interesting piece about the NBC News debacle and among the buried nuggets was that Brian Williams as managing editor of the newscast was regularly snowballing stories that he deemed to be too controversial or provocative. Several of the true serious journalists that were working at NBC have left due to the killing of stories.

You have no major sources of discernible free press on television when each and every network is owned by a corporation with many conflicting interests. I'd suggest following McClatchy as they continue to produce some of the investigative journalism in the country and have papers with circulation of a few million per day. Unfortunately, they're an anomaly today.

Journalism in the USA is dead. Period.

You need to read or watch coverage from overseas to truly get a picture of what is going on here and abroad. And, no, obviously having Disney controlling ABC News and Comcast controlling NBC News and Sumner Redstone controlling CBS News and Rupert Murdoch controlling FOX just isn't good for anyone looking for truth.

And reporters flat out don't want to do their jobs or they believe their jobs entail making sure they continue to have access and cooperation (whatever the eff that means) versus covering stories that paint the government or industries or corps in a bad light.

I've spoken with people at numerous news orgs. Two being the NYT and the WSJ. They both believe the HuffPo 'cleansing' and Willow Bay's roll in it is absolutely a story. One (who I am fairly certain reached out to both Bay and the author) went so far as to say that it could be ''potentially huge'' and then went on to say they weren't going to touch it. Why?

No, I doubt Disney is paying off any real reporter ... not with cash or checks ... or likely free trips or even vinyls. But they are influencing the reporters just the same by saying things like ''If you continue down that path, I can't promise that you'll have that five minutes with Tom Staggs the next time he is in town.''

It's all the same. Reporters all thinking about self-interest and not the importance of their positions in a democracy.

 

[WDW1974]

This is why I read news sites from non US origin such as Der Spiegel and Deutsche Welle. Often they will have news stories 3-4 days before some anchor in the US breathlessly "breaks" the news. But be warned, these German outlets write on a comprehension level far greater than the grade 8 level in the US.

Yes. That's why I'm glad that Angie is so much smarter than me (and I'll have you know that I can read to an 11th grade level in the USA!) and can 'splain things!

 

[the.dreamfinder]

So thats where I live now. A mere five miles away from where the proposed park would have been.

Everything bad that the Anti-Disney crowd said would happen came to pass. Traffic on Rte 15 & I 66 are a disaster. Strip malls. Wal-Mart. McMansions. Lots of half-million dollar homes. Lots of added traffic. Lots of crap.

So who got rich? Developers. No added theme park, no added employer. And a boatload of traffic going through the "rural crescent" and the Battlefield that they so wished to preserve.....

Still sounds better than O-Town.

 

[WDW1974]

Hong Kong Disneyland is not really a good example of Disney having their strings pulled. The Government of Hong Kong repeatedly trusted Disney and Disney at every turn failed to deliver on their promises.

Not really. Although you are correct (not as much of a contradiction as you may think). The HK SAR did believe in Disney and got royally screwed. After announcing the park, Disney literally (and pretty much unilaterally) trimmed 60% of the park's menu from opening day. If they had built what was planned it would have been a spectacular, and still very different, MK park.

But that's why SINCE the opening issues, the government has been much more proactive (and its strings are also coming from the mainland, no matter what some may believe). That's why Disney was forced -- and that is the right word -- to add Toy Story Land, Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point. That's also why Iron Man is going in now and why TSMM will quickly follow.

I did hear that they are going to attempt a Frozen sing a long attraction there this summer. I'm guessing they either feel those songs crossed EVERY and ANY cultural barrier in China or that people just like them more than the Lion King soundtrack! (a factoid that I too have witnessed that was in that censored Op-Ed)

 

[lazyboy97o]

Not really. Although you are correct (not as much of a contradiction as you may think). The HK SAR did believe in Disney and got royally screwed. After announcing the park, Disney literally (and pretty much unilaterally) trimmed 60% of the park's menu from opening day. If they had built what was planned it would have been a spectacular, and still very different, MK park.

But that's why SINCE the opening issues, the government has been much more proactive (and its strings are also coming from the mainland, no matter what some may believe). That's why Disney was forced -- and that is the right word -- to add Toy Story Land, Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point. That's also why Iron Man is going in now and why TSMM will quickly follow.

I did hear that they are going to attempt a Frozen sing a long attraction there this summer. I'm guessing they either feel those songs crossed EVERY and ANY cultural barrier in China or that people just like them more than the Lion King soundtrack! (a factoid that I too have witnessed that was in that censored Op-Ed)

Disney was still allowed to try their piecemeal means of expansion with Autopia and "it's a small world" (both of which were also jointly financed) before the Government put its foot down and demanded a true expansion funded 100% by Disney. After being deceived the way they were, it also makes sense that the Government was not going to have Disney waste some of that expansion money on messing around with the railroad.

 

[WDW1974]

@WDW1974 How many shirts should I put you down for?

I missed 20-something pages due to real life and then some insanity that began last night, so I am missing entirely what you are speaking of.

But I could use some new shirts. I haven't been to my tailor in China in a bit (you have never lived until someone makes clothes to fit your current body shape ... at least until you put on 20 pounds and are a world away!)

 

[PhotoDave219]

Still sounds better than O-Town.

Weather is nicer despite the snow the other day.

 

[WDW1974]

Disney was still allowed to try their piecemeal means of expansion with Autopia and "it's a small world" (both of which were also jointly financed) before the Government put its foot down and demanded a true expansion funded 100% by Disney. After being deceived the way they were, it also makes sense that the Government was not going to have Disney waste some of that expansion money on messing around with the railroad.

Yes, although both attractions were on the original menu for opening day. Disney, on its own, pushed them off as sorta a Phase II (just not officially).

I don't think Disney will ever get the goodwill back that they had in the late 90s/early 00s over there.

I still have my HKDL announcement press kit (thanks to George Kalogridis, seriously ... O-Town PR was so cheap they didn't want to give me one and he went and got one for me himself, so see he ain't all bad!) and to hear about all that was supposed to go in and didn't is just very sad (although I am happy we didn't get another Aladdin spinner and still think a Frontierland centered around the raft ride designed for Disney's America and It's Tough To Be a Bug -- yes, really! MDE wanted that everywhere! -- was weak).

Of course had Mansion (DL' s copy) gone in, we never would have gotten Mystic Manor and @WDWFigment wouldn't hold the American record for rides on it in one visit!

 

[WDW1974]

How many pages of Star Wars locale posts are there? Jeez ...

All for IP that may appear in that mess of a 3rd gate by 2020 if we all wish upon a star ...

 

[WDW1974]

Can I just ask a question?

Who the hell cares?

I'd suggest that if you don't care (you and the eight others who liked your post) that you are wasting valuable lifetime by reading and commenting. You won't get this time back at the end, so you likely should read and comment on things that do interest you. I am sure this MAGICal site has hundreds of various current threads and you could always start one of your own.

 

[WDW1974]

I doubt "the street" is going to extrapolate any conclusions from the success or failure of a Shanghai project and apply them to Orlando or any of the domestic operations. Shanghai, cruise ships, and NGE are all unique animals that need to be evaluated on their own merits but don't carry much predictive power in terms of "normal" capital expenditures. When it comes to the long-term fate of WDW, it's much more important how Avatar and DCA play out than whatever happens in China.

Not true.

China in every sense is the highest priority at TWDC. SDL is obviously at the top of the list since Bob Iger was incapable of getting any of the media penetration that he so desired -- and is so integral to growing the BRAND in a land where Disney is simply not known well at all.

If Disney runs into major problems there, then it will affect almost everything across multiple business units.

Avatar could be a total flop (I don't see that happening, btw) and it will be a blip. And DCA ... I don't quite get that as the park is doing great and not affecting WDW one way or the other really.

If Disney's China strategy fails outright or needs billions more to prop it up, then Disney will be making hard decisions all over the place ... and they love cutting at WDW because it has become SOP and they have conditioned a new generation of Guests over the last 15 years to constantly accept lower quality at higher prices.

 

[WDW1974]

When the whole issue first came up I thought the same thing. But then I read articles with Iger talking about China and building in Shanghai and its quite obvious he wants this to be a big part of his legacy. He stated in one article that he has been involved in the China deal since 1999 and negotiations took over 11 years and all the obstacles they had to overcome.

If he put that much effort into this deal then why is he not there with a big smile on his face in front of the castle? Too hear him talk about it he sounds so extremely proud of this deal and you would think he would be there beaming with pride, but hes not. Why?

The answer for the people who don't understand what is going on would largely be like something coming from a petulant 10-year-old, ''Becauuuse ...and I don't care!!!!!!''

 

[Smiddimizer]

If Disney's China strategy fails outright or needs billions more to prop it up, then Disney will be making hard decisions all over the place ... and they love cutting at WDW because it has become SOP and they have conditioned a new generation of Guests over the last 15 years to constantly accept lower quality at higher prices.

You've got that part backwards

 

[Next Big Thing]

I'd suggest that if you don't care (you and the eight others who liked your post) that you are wasting valuable lifetime by reading and commenting. You won't get this time back at the end, so you likely should read and comment on things that do interest you. I am sure this MAGICal site has hundreds of various current threads and you could always start one of your own.

I come to spirited threads for much more than just propaganda stories about Shanghai.

Or at least I used to until you stopped giving parks news and just continued with the sensationalized propaganda...

 

[Cesar R M]

Some Spirited Dim Sum: (WDW lovers should follow all the way to the end! as it's sure to deliver for them.)

Since the last bout of insanity is behind us and God only knows when the next will arrive, I wanted to discuss a few more morsels of info about Disney's SDL project, and indeed their entire relationship with the Central Government in Beijing, that should make shareholders and analysts and fanbois capable of seeing the big picture question the project and Disney's management.

(Yes, I am ready to hear all the reasons why I am thinking too much! And that's something I'll continue right on doing!)

First, y'all know who Bob Weis is, right? Imagineer. Lead designer of Disney-MGM Studios as well as two parks that never got off the drawing board in Disney's America and the Disney-MGM Studios Europe. Michael Eisner's fall guy when things got ugly with the uppity Virginian monied elite who didn't want a theme park ruining their pristine forests and historical sites ... so they made sure Disney wouldn't build so that 5-6 years later they got Super Walmarts, Carmax, Home Depot, strip centers and subdivisions galore. Guy who returned to WDI to 'fix' DCA with the carrot of being lead on SDL dangled before him.

So, he's riding herd on Disney's most important project of the 21st century and guess where he's spending most of his time? If you guessed Burbank, then you win a LE vinylmation provided you send me $129.99 plus shipping and handling.

Yes, for some reason(s), Bob is seen more often in SoCal than in Shanghai. I can already hear folks making excuses ''But you Disney-hating Spirit, he needs to be viewing the project from where the decisions are being made and ...'' yeah, I can't even type that without ROTFLMFAO as the kiddies used to say way back in say 2006.

Look, when HKDL was being built, Tom Morris spent the vast majority of his time on Lantau. When Euro Disney was being built, Tony Baxter basically lived in Paris.

But not this time?

(Anyone want to toss out the Ozzie's Razor deal here? Just love that ignorant response ...)

The answer, again, to anyone paying attention is that Disney doesn't even have direct day-to-day creative control of ''their' (God, I can't stop laughing when I type this!) resort.

Bob has a great blog, btw. OK, not really great, but enlightening. I'm sorta shocked no one has linked to it here yet.

There be pics on Bob's Blog (nope, none of Iger, Staggs, Rasulo, Mickey, Goofy, Buzz or Olaf on-site). Funny thing is all the parks pics seem to come from official channels. No, not from Zenia and her flying monkeys. Nope, from Chinese media. ... Again, the lead creative of the park being built by the world's No. 1 media company can't put out anything that actually comes from Disney.

Does any of this strike you as the least bit odd?

How about this dumpling: the blog isn't hosted in the USA, but in China. That means it is subject to being edited, censored etc by the government. Why would Bob opt to host a blog for Americans/Westerners in China? This isn't meant for the locals there at all.

Look I'll keep saying this, Disney will keep cringing, the financial press and people who cover Disney will keep on ignoring it until they can't any longer, but Bob Iger (yes, he of the Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China fame) doesn't control a damn thing over there. He signed a bad deal. A deal Michael Eisner never would have agreed to. A deal that he thinks will cement his legacy at the company (because, again, buying the creative output of others only proves that you are good at shopping. It isn't legacy building stuff.) And shareholders ... and even fans of WDW will wind up paying the price down the line because, much like with HKDL's close to $1 billion expansion that was financed entirely by Disney, when the CCP tells Iger to put a few billion more worth of attractions in that park, he's gotta keep his numbers looking good somehow ... and we all know how he does that. How he'll continue to do that.

You know what that means. A continued stale MK that hasn't added a major attraction since 1992. An EPCOT that gets by on food and booze and retail sales. Timeshares galore. Price increases twice a year. Upcharing up your rear end. Etc ... and if there's a project that looks great and actually makes it thru to Iger's desk when the CCP demands those additions, nothing will come to WDW. Bank on it.

So, chew on that a bit and pass the hot mustard. I can't get me enough of that stuff.

Oh, BTW, amusing anecdote, but both Bob Weis and MDE both steadfastly refuse to call TPFKaTD-MGMS by anything other than 'Disney-MGM' to this day. No DHS or soon to likely be DHA or something close.

if this is true, almost feels like the chinese government is trying to scam their own citizens.. claiming that THEY "invented" and "developed" Disney as in the park and all its contents.