A Spirited Perfect Ten

[TP2000]

Let's move to style. Since Tim Gunn isn't around and the Fasion Police tossed the lovely Kathy Griffin ... I'll page @TP2000 (BTW, Angie M and I are looking forward to hopefully meeting you out west later this year!) here.

Remember Nick Franklin? How soon they forget.

He was the 'brains' behind NGE. The guy who became the fall guy last year when it was more than obvious the project would never live up to its hype or financial promises. The guy who dressed for media appearances like ... well, TP can handle that one.

You rang?

I certainly haven't forgotten Nick Franklin. While no one likes to see someone lose their job, since Mr. Franklin presented himself to the national media on NextGen Launch Day looking like a schleppy guy from Purchasing dropping off more toner cartridges for the printer, I'm not surprised he was the exec Burbank decided to can when the 1+ Billion Dollar NextGen Project launched and landed flat on its face.

If he'd only worn at least a sport coat to the Media Day, he might have kept his job.

And if you and your lady friend are headed to Anaheim for the Diamond Celebration @WDW1974, then a round of Carthay Manhattans (or a Pimm's Punch for the lady?) are on me!

 

[bhg469]

Some Spirited Dim Sum: (WDW lovers should follow all the way to the end! as it's sure to deliver for them.)

Since the last bout of insanity is behind us and God only knows when the next will arrive, I wanted to discuss a few more morsels of info about Disney's SDL project, and indeed their entire relationship with the Central Government in Beijing, that should make shareholders and analysts and fanbois capable of seeing the big picture question the project and Disney's management.

(Yes, I am ready to hear all the reasons why I am thinking too much! And that's something I'll continue right on doing!)

First, y'all know who Bob Weis is, right? Imagineer. Lead designer of Disney-MGM Studios as well as two parks that never got off the drawing board in Disney's America and the Disney-MGM Studios Europe. Michael Eisner's fall guy when things got ugly with the uppity Virginian monied elite who didn't want a theme park ruining their pristine forests and historical sites ... so they made sure Disney wouldn't build so that 5-6 years later they got Super Walmarts, Carmax, Home Depot, strip centers and subdivisions galore. Guy who returned to WDI to 'fix' DCA with the carrot of being lead on SDL dangled before him.

So, he's riding herd on Disney's most important project of the 21st century and guess where he's spending most of his time? If you guessed Burbank, then you win a LE vinylmation provided you send me $129.99 plus shipping and handling.

Yes, for some reason(s), Bob is seen more often in SoCal than in Shanghai. I can already hear folks making excuses ''But you Disney-hating Spirit, he needs to be viewing the project from where the decisions are being made and ...'' yeah, I can't even type that without ROTFLMFAO as the kiddies used to say way back in say 2006.

Look, when HKDL was being built, Tom Morris spent the vast majority of his time on Lantau. When Euro Disney was being built, Tony Baxter basically lived in Paris.

But not this time?

(Anyone want to toss out the Ozzie's Razor deal here? Just love that ignorant response ...)

The answer, again, to anyone paying attention is that Disney doesn't even have direct day-to-day creative control of ''their' (God, I can't stop laughing when I type this!) resort.

Bob has a great blog, btw. OK, not really great, but enlightening. I'm sorta shocked no one has linked to it here yet.

There be pics on Bob's Blog (nope, none of Iger, Staggs, Rasulo, Mickey, Goofy, Buzz or Olaf on-site). Funny thing is all the parks pics seem to come from official channels. No, not from Zenia and her flying monkeys. Nope, from Chinese media. ... Again, the lead creative of the park being built by the world's No. 1 media company can't put out anything that actually comes from Disney.

Does any of this strike you as the least bit odd?

How about this dumpling: the blog isn't hosted in the USA, but in China. That means it is subject to being edited, censored etc by the government. Why would Bob opt to host a blog for Americans/Westerners in China? This isn't meant for the locals there at all.

Look I'll keep saying this, Disney will keep cringing, the financial press and people who cover Disney will keep on ignoring it until they can't any longer, but Bob Iger (yes, he of the Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China fame) doesn't control a damn thing over there. He signed a bad deal. A deal Michael Eisner never would have agreed to. A deal that he thinks will cement his legacy at the company (because, again, buying the creative output of others only proves that you are good at shopping. It isn't legacy building stuff.) And shareholders ... and even fans of WDW will wind up paying the price down the line because, much like with HKDL's close to $1 billion expansion that was financed entirely by Disney, when the CCP tells Iger to put a few billion more worth of attractions in that park, he's gotta keep his numbers looking good somehow ... and we all know how he does that. How he'll continue to do that.

You know what that means. A continued stale MK that hasn't added a major attraction since 1992. An EPCOT that gets by on food and booze and retail sales. Timeshares galore. Price increases twice a year. Upcharing up your rear end. Etc ... and if there's a project that looks great and actually makes it thru to Iger's desk when the CCP demands those additions, nothing will come to WDW. Bank on it.

So, chew on that a bit and pass the hot mustard. I can't get me enough of that stuff.

Oh, BTW, amusing anecdote, but both Bob Weis and MDE both steadfastly refuse to call TPFKaTD-MGMS by anything other than 'Disney-MGM' to this day. No DHS or soon to likely be DHA or something close.

Stop with the dim sum! The only good place I can get it here has a line out the door all day!

 

[ford91exploder]

I missed 20-something pages due to real life and then some insanity that began last night, so I am missing entirely what you are speaking of.

But I could use some new shirts. I haven't been to my tailor in China in a bit (you have never lived until someone makes clothes to fit your current body shape ... at least until you put on 20 pounds and are a world away!)

Chinese tailors in HK are AMAZING!

 

[ford91exploder]

Agree, everyone has the right to make a fool of themselves in public.

Yes we do indeed, But behold the turtle who only makes progress when it sticks it's neck out.

 

[BrerJon]

I did hear that they are going to attempt a Frozen sing a long attraction there this summer. I'm guessing they either feel those songs crossed EVERY and ANY cultural barrier in China or that people just like them more than the Lion King soundtrack! (a factoid that I too have witnessed that was in that censored Op-Ed)

You would think after EuroDisney TWDC would learn a lesson about cultural differences, but they're still clearly clueless.

Singalongs are popular in America, but the last thing the French or Chinese would want to take part in, it's just not part of the culture to be loud and self-promoting like that. Yet TWDC continues to shove Frozen singalongs into DLP and HKDL, making for nothing more than an excruciatingly awkward and embarrassing mess for both Cast Members and bewildered guests.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

You would think after EuroDisney TWDC would learn a lesson about cultural differences, but they're still clearly clueless.

Singalongs are popular in America, but the last thing the French or Chinese would want to take part in, it's just not part of the culture to be loud and self-promoting like that. Yet TWDC continues to shove Frozen singalongs into DLP and HKDL, making for nothing more than an excruciatingly awkward and embarrassing mess for both Cast Members and bewildered guests.

I can't speak for the whole of Europe, but there are twice daily Frozen showadongs in London, thrice Saturdays. And my nieces are taught Frozen songs at school.

Alas, cultural diffusion is such that one does not merely watch Hollywood movies, one adopts the larger culture surrounding it with it. Let's hope that while the whole of Europe may have succumbed, the French are still resisting. Bless their Astérix syndrome.

 

[BrerJon]

I can't speak for the whole of Europe, but there are twice daily Frozen showadongs in London, thrice Saturdays. And my nieces are taught Frozen songs at school.

Actually I suppose the DLP ones are probably for the benefit of UK guests more than the French, so perhaps I'll give them a pass on that one.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I've spoken with people at numerous news orgs. Two being the NYT and the WSJ. They both believe the HuffPo 'cleansing' and Willow Bay's roll in it is absolutely a story. One (who I am fairly certain reached out to both Bay and the author) went so far as to say that it could be ''potentially huge'' and then went on to say they weren't going to touch it. Why?

Why? Because you sold them on to a huge story about censorship, corruption, shady HuffPoo practices, all involving America's largest entertainment corporation, only for them to find out there was nothing there but alarmist semi-paranoid puffs of smoke?

 

[flyerjab]

Spirit continues to push my interest in this subject. @the.dreamfinder, I am tagging you to let you know that I continue to dig through the trash on this subject.

I am adding a link to a college report completed in 2011 by a Chinese student on the introduction of Shanghai Disneyland into mainland China. He wrote this during his time at the University of Lancashire in the UK. Why I do this is because this topic has started to interest me, and some of the lesser known bits of information on the subject can have interesting nuggets to share. What is interesting (to me anyway) is that the author of the study designs a questionnaire and hands it out to 50 residents living in and around Shanghai. The questions are all Disney-centric obviously, and it provides a rather innocent peak into the thoughts of the everyday citizen in Shanghai at the time concerning their opinions of the Disney BRAND entering into their culture.

http://www.academia.edu/5830139/BAS...sneyland_Project_The_Third_Disneyland_in_Asia

 

[ford91exploder]

Spirit continues to push my interest in this subject. @the.dreamfinder, I am tagging you to let you know that I continue to dig through the trash on this subject.

I am adding a link to a college report completed in 2011 by a Chinese student on the introduction of Shanghai Disneyland into mainland China. He wrote this during his time at the University of Lancashire in the UK. Why I do this is because this topic has started to interest me, and some of the lesser known bits of information on the subject can have interesting nuggets to share. What is interesting (to me anyway) is that the author of the study designs a questionnaire and hands it out to 50 residents living in and around Shanghai. The questions are all Disney-centric obviously, and it provides a rather innocent peak into the thoughts of the everyday citizen in Shanghai at the time concerning their opinions of the Disney BRAND entering into their culture.

http://www.academia.edu/5830139/BAS...sneyland_Project_The_Third_Disneyland_in_Asia

I think item C on page 10 of the linked report is the most interesting in the majority of respondents think that the DL project is 'Too Expensive' for most Chinese.

 

[Nubs70]

Spirit continues to push my interest in this subject. @the.dreamfinder, I am tagging you to let you know that I continue to dig through the trash on this subject.

I am adding a link to a college report completed in 2011 by a Chinese student on the introduction of Shanghai Disneyland into mainland China. He wrote this during his time at the University of Lancashire in the UK. Why I do this is because this topic has started to interest me, and some of the lesser known bits of information on the subject can have interesting nuggets to share. What is interesting (to me anyway) is that the author of the study designs a questionnaire and hands it out to 50 residents living in and around Shanghai. The questions are all Disney-centric obviously, and it provides a rather innocent peak into the thoughts of the everyday citizen in Shanghai at the time concerning their opinions of the Disney BRAND entering into their culture.

http://www.academia.edu/5830139/BAS...sneyland_Project_The_Third_Disneyland_in_Asia

Interesting info in respect to customer expectations. Unique offerings, low crowds, cleanliness, and quality service, kind of runs counter to current TWDC Lean philosophy.

 

[flyerjab]

Interesting info in respect to customer expectations. Unique offerings, low crowds, cleanliness, and quality service, kind of runs counter to current TWDC Lean philosophy.

Interesting thing is they basically want what anyone else would want: a unique, affordable, aesthetically pleasing and clean escape from the regular world.

The question I am trying to find an answer for is will the Chinese-owned park make that a reality? Or, will the jointly owned park, where Disney appears to be calling the shots but apparently is not, be able to make this happen for the average Chinese citizen?

One quick note: the reality of a non-crowded themepark in such a highly populated country will never come to fruition, IMO.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think item C on page 10 of the linked report is the most interesting in the majority of respondents think that the DL project is 'Too Expensive' for most Chinese.

Don't the majority of Americans think Disney World and Disneyland are too expensive? Every year when they raise prices we hear about the fact that more and more people are being priced out yet attendance keeps growing. Shanghai Disney should be a wild success based on that history

Seriously, that is part of the psychology that Disney is trying to tap into. There is a growing middle class in China. They crave products and services that are deemed "too expensive" for the average person. It's a way to show you have "made it". Whether it's a cup of expensive coffee/tea at Starbucks, an expensive brand of cigarettes, designer clothing, a certain make/model of a car or an expensive vacation destination, the growing middle class is driving demand. It's no different than what happens or has happened in any other country. It's human nature and that trumps any cultural or national differences.

 

[GoofGoof]

Interesting thing is the basically want what anyone else would want: a unique, affordable, aesthetically pleasing and clean escape from the regular world.

The question I am trying to find an answer for is will the Chinese-owned park make that a reality? Or, will the jointly owned park, where Disney appears to be calling the shots but apparently is not, be able to make this happen for the average Chinese citizen?

One quick note: the reality of a non-crowded themepark in such a highly populated country will never come to fruition, IMO.

If they really hit their targets at some point and have 25 million+ visitors it will be the exact opposite of "non-crowded". Having average daily crowds of 70,000+ is like Christmas week at the MK, but every day. Unless the park has a lot more rides than I'm expecting or they have a bunch more added at some point in the future the place is going to be uncomfortably crowded. Not sure if the average Chinese guest is going to be as open to that as the Japanese seem to be in Tokyo. I'm guessing no.

 

[bhg469]

Don't the majority of Americans think Disney World and Disneyland are too expensive? Every year when they raise prices we hear about the fact that more and more people are being priced out yet attendance keeps growing. Shanghai Disney should be a wild success based on that history

Seriously, that is part of the psychology that Disney is trying to tap into. There is a growing middle class in China. They crave products and services that are deemed "too expensive" for the average person. It's a way to show you have "made it". Whether it's a cup of expensive coffee/tea at Starbucks, an expensive brand of cigarettes, designer clothing, a certain make/model of a car or an expensive vacation destination, the growing middle class is driving demand. It's no different than what happens or has happened in any other country. It's human nature and that trumps any cultural or national differences.

Each year more foreign visitors come too. That has to account for increase in attendance. Besides when has being able to afford something stopped Americans from buying it? More people are extending their credit than ever before.

 

[Nubs70]

Interesting thing is they basically want what anyone else would want: a unique, affordable, aesthetically pleasing and clean escape from the regular world.

The question I am trying to find an answer for is will the Chinese-owned park make that a reality? Or, will the jointly owned park, where Disney appears to be calling the shots but apparently is not, be able to make this happen for the average Chinese citizen?

One quick note: the reality of a non-crowded themepark in such a highly populated country will never come to fruition, IMO.

I also wonder about the survey being in English. If the survey was delivered in English, the results would be skewed towards the above average Chinese national. A follow up would be a survey in Mandarin that would include a larger demographic. I hypothesize (to those who do not understand the scientific method, hypothesis is the first step in enlightenment) that the percentage of those that identify Disney would drop significantly.

 

[Nubs70]

Each year more foreign visitors come too. That has to account for increase in attendance. Besides when has being able to afford something stopped Americans from buying it? More people are extending their credit than ever before.

However with the rapidly strengthening dollar, I see a drop in foreign travel to O-town.

 

[ford91exploder]

However with the rapidly strengthening dollar, I see a drop in foreign travel to O-town.

Yup

 

[GoofGoof]

Each year more foreign visitors come too. That has to account for increase in attendance. Besides when has being able to afford something stopped Americans from buying it? More people are extending their credit than ever before.

I think @ParentsOf4 posted something on this not too long ago. If I remember correctly domestic attendance (meaning Americans visiting the domestic parks) was at worst flat in recent history.

The point is that Disney parks all over the world are considered expensive, high end vacation spots. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the Chinese would feel that way too.

I also wonder about the survey being in English. If the survey was delivered in English, the results would be skewed towards the above average Chinese national. A follow up would be a survey in Mandarin that would include a larger demographic. I hypothesize (to those who do not understand the scientific method, hypothesis is the first step in enlightenment) that the percentage of those that identify Disney would drop significantly.

This is true, but the target audience is the middle and upper class. The percentage would almost definitely drop if you included more of the lower class (which is still the vast majority of the population), but since they aren't the target demographic it would be less relevant.

 

[stevehousse]

I know this is probably way to early to tell or have information on, but do we know what the cost of a one day ticket will be in Shanghai? I'd be very interested to know what the price difference is for the Disney park over any of their other numerous theme parks.