A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Tony Perkis]

Have to admit that the more I think about that 2014 in review column by Blogging Foxxy, that I think the war has been lost. People who got hooked on Disney due to Walt ... due to DL ... due to WDW growing out of the swamp ... due to the amazing spectacle that was 1980s and into the 90s EPCOT Center ... even due to Michael Eisner's first 10-15 years with Disney ... we've all been beat by the newbs. The kiddies -- and adults -- who have either only been visiting in the 21st century or are simply BRAND addicts. Aided by Disney's relentless marketing and smarmy Social Media efforts in kissing up to Mommy Bloggers and well ... assorted misfits who will write or say anything to be accepted by cubicle dwellers in Celebration Place, the Dark Side has won.

Sounds like Robb Alvey and TPR.

 

[Nemo14]

Have to admit that the more I think about that 2014 in review column by Blogging Foxxy, that I think the war has been lost. People who got hooked on Disney due to Walt ... due to DL ... due to WDW growing out of the swamp ... due to the amazing spectacle that was 1980s and into the 90s EPCOT Center ... even due to Michael Eisner's first 10-15 years with Disney ... we've all been beat by the newbs. The kiddies -- and adults -- who have either only been visiting in the 21st century or are simply BRAND addicts. Aided by Disney's relentless marketing and smarmy Social Media efforts in kissing up to Mommy Bloggers and well ... assorted misfits who will write or say anything to be accepted by cubicle dwellers in Celebration Place, the Dark Side has won.

Sure, we may get thrown a bone when they remove a giant cartoon hat a dozen years too late. But does any of it matter? What if there are things that are better or improved at WDW (and there absolutely are) if the entire product continues to be a lesser than one? A Walmarted one. A one where we stand out like there's something wrong with us because well we don't simply have familiarity with the WDW of old, we lived it ... from Treasure Island to River Country, from the Swan Boats to If You Had Wings, from shops with unique merchandise to restaurants with real menus, from Here's to the Future and You to A Year Long and A Smile Wide, from booking the Diamond Horseshoe Review on arrival to Jack Wagner on WDW Radio (the real deal, not whatever the Internet variety run by a slime bag), from Every Guest is a VIP to We Want Exceed Guests Expectations etc.?

I don't know, I really don't.

But this is a company that doesn't even have a Disney involved. This is a company that has fired or forced out more talent at Imagineering than it currently has. This is a company run by someone whose vision doesn't go beyond the next acquisition or playing with the next Apple toy like a typical 23-year-old with Daddy's Am Ex.

only "liking" this because I agree...

 

[WDW1974]

Just out of curiosity does the Chinese Government really know who WDW1974 is? Is that how you introduce yourself when there? I think it's pretty safe giving that opinion without fear of reprisal.

I am absolutely certain that the government there knows everything I do. Not much more different than here in our post 9/11, Patriot Act, NSA reality. I care more about that than I do whether folks in China know I post on Disney fan forums.

And I sometimes poke fun at my Chinese brothers and sisters, and I just want to be clear that is all I am doing. I love the country and its people. I never truly knew what it was like to be treated so amazingly (I felt like a royal!) until I went over for the first time in 2008 to help bring the Beijing Olympics to the world.

So, while I may not agree with the way everything is done there (much like here), I have China in my soul ... I can't wait to head back (hopefully, very, very soon!!!)

 

[DisneyElephant]

This is a problem at every company I have ever worked for and is a human nature problem.

I don't believe that actually. Though there's may be a culture problem at the organization I work at, I know that its not something that is easily fixed and I, maybe am in a rare place, where I trust the leadership is on top of making sure that culture changes.

But this is a company that doesn't even have a Disney involved. This is a company that has fired or forced out more talent at Imagineering than it currently has. This is a company run by someone whose vision doesn't go beyond the next acquisition or playing with the next Apple toy like a typical 23-year-old with Daddy's Am Ex.

And why? This reminds me so much of what happened with Circuit City and its precisely why they went out of business. They fired all the talent and intelligent people because they cost money and made the stupider higher ups look bad.

 

[WDW1974]

Speaking of Bob and questions... Any idea how good his investor services team is? I would assume he has one coach him prior to earnings and investor releases. I'd imagine they need to coach Jim on more than just numbers since a company like Disney is bound to get left field questions about things such as when Song of the South will be rereleased.

No, I really don't.

 

[WDW1974]

She's a she. Foxx Nolte. (If it matters)

No, it doesn't.

But I always wondered. And one of her top pals in the Twitverse swore to me years ago that he knew she was really a he.

I only care about her words/actions. And I absolutely think she nailed it with that blog post. She's obviously younger than I am, but she experienced and fell in love with a Disney that no longer exists (except perhaps on cruise ships or in Tokyo) and that is me.

I have pondered what if I was like my favorite gal 'Angie' ... what if my first visit to WDW was only in 2004 instead of 1974? Would I even like the place? How would it touch me? Would it affect me on the same level walking into Epcot that walking into EPCOT Center in 1982 did? Would my age matter ... meaning if I were a child in 2004 would I have been as wowed as I was back in '74? All interesting questions to think about.

 

[WDW1974]

I feel sorry for all the "Guests" having a great time on vacation who fall prey to Disney's DVC sales pitch.

Disney (literally) is banking on consumer naivety and the reputation of a man who has been dead for 50 years.

Disney is cultivating a market of guests who are (and there is no polite way to put this) dumber than dirt. I am fond of blaming Legal for many ridiculous changes in the parks and resorts, but a large part is guest behavior. For decades, we didn't need load gates ... not on attractions, not on the monorails etc. People weren't so stupid to simply walk off the platform at the MK station onto the monorail track, they didn't regularly walk into the flume on Pirates or Small World when there wasn't a boat there to load onto, they didn't simply walk onto the Space Mountain track when there was no rocket there ... yet starting in the late 90s, we got everything lawyerized.

So, to talk a guest like that into buying into DVC sure isn't as hard as it would be with a savvier and smarter guest.

And as far as Walt's rep? Do you realize how many people (not children here) don't even realize Walt Disney was a man? This is what Bob Iger's Disney wants.

 

[WDW1974]

BTW, what are all these notes I'm getting about that Princess Pavilion I said was happening over a year ago? Did it get announced or leaked to a blogger?

 

[Nemo14]

Spirited Request For a Little Project:

If you were going to ask Bob Iger (along with Tom Staggs and Jay Rasulo) ONE question during the upcoming WDC shareholders meeting in San Francisco, what would it be? Simply place it in a post here or at the bottom of another post.

Who knows? That question might just be asked at said meeting.

I've been thinking about this, and there are many things I would ask him about, but I think my first thought at a shareholders meeting would be asking for exact figures for the whole NextGen stuff and when will it produce a profit, as well as long-term gains from recent DVC plans.

Now if I were asking a question not at a shareholders meeting, I would be more likely to address issues like the dumbing down of a place that I loved...

 

[WDW1974]

I think a little too much angst over WDW's last decade is being applied to Iger as a whole. The man is leaving a far stronger Disney brand than the one he stumbled into. WDW biggest fault was - on paper - about the only thing that didn't require fixing in 2005. He can be blamed for letting it continue to flirt with disaster, but the broken mentality that infected TDO precedes the man.

On the other hand, the public once again has faith in the Disney brand and many of the films and products it is associated with. Perception is power.

That's a far harder thing to fix than a theme park. A theme park just needs investment.

I disagree with most of this, but I won't get pulled into another back and forth about Iger's alleged leadership qualities or lack thereof.

I will say that this is a (some would say 'the') WDW-centric site and Iger's 'leadership' of WDW (stewardship?) has been absolutely abysmal. It's not only what hasn't been done, but as we've talked about until it's coming out of our ears, it's also about the massive spending for things like door locks, tracking bands, timeshares and lifestyle center redos.

As the ultimate manager of WDW, he gets an F by any reasonable metrics (who will be the first to pop in here and talk about profits? they should be castrated ... even if they're a gal!)

 

[WDW1974]

The always-entertaining WDW vs. Disneyland game is easy to play with the Frozen Fun stuff, but I'm not sure it's equitable with what just opened at Tokyo.

Anaheim's Frozen Fun has four main elements; Meet n' Greet, Sing-Along Show, Olaf's Snow Fest, and Freeze The Night! dance party.

The double-room Frozen Princess Meet n' Greet in DCA is gorgeously done, and it looks like it was made (and budgeted) to remain for the next decade or more.

DCA's Olaf's Snow Fest is most similar to DHS's Wandering Oaken’s Trading Post & Frozen Funland. And that's where it's obvious that TDA spent more money than TDO did. It may only be used for four months, but Olaf's Snow Fest looks very nicely done and Imagineered with fully immersive sets and surfaces. Food, merchandise, live music, Olaf meet n' greet, real snow and toboggan runs. Fabulous!

The Sing-Along show in Anaheim is nearly identical to the WDW version on stage, but Anaheim's venue is much more impressive and lavishly done from the entry queue to the auditorium. This looks permanent, and appears to have booted the Muppets from Anaheim. But the painfully empty theaters that MuppetVision has played to in Anaheim tell me this was the right decision to make, the right thing for TDA to spend more money on. Good decision Anaheim suits!

Freeze The Night! is what it is; another glowy cocktail dance party for locals and hipster tourists to enjoy in the evenings. The Marshmallow meet n' greet seems to be the breakout hit, interestingly. I just don't think you can compare this to the Holiday Inn Wedding Reception DJ (Hey kids, it's Macarena time!) that TDO books for all their juvenile dance parties in the WDW parks. Apples to Oranges, really. But Marshmallow sure is cool!

Count the new Arendelle set added to Disneyland's Storybook Land Canal Boats ride (a rare time when I can honestly say "Walt would love this!"), and the new Frozen stage show in Disneyland's Princess Fantasy Faire, and Anaheim has the lock on fresh Frozen offerings.

But obviously you have to do all this stuff and spend the extra money on it in Anaheim, and can't do any of this in Orlando. Because, you know, Disneyland is a little, tiny locals-only park that hardly anyone goes to anymore. But WDW has the blessing of size and gets millions more visitors and lots of Brazilian tour groups and it has 30,000 hotel rooms and is Walt's dream come true and so it can't do anything as lavishly as Disneyland. Cause that's how it makes sense.

As for Tokyo's version of Frozen Fun, it looks fabulous, to be sure. Tokyo always makes things look good. But it's a different menu of offerings from what the American parks tried to do. In Tokyo, they are using Disneyland as the backdrop for Frozen offerings instead of second-gates like DCA or DHS. And Tokyo's offerings are limited to a Castle show and Hub parade, and merch/food offerings. I don't think they even have a Frozen meet n' greet or any physical setup of any kind, do they?

No comment beyond I agree ... and we MUST get together for dinner or drinks (or both) the next time I am in SoCal.

 

[danlb_2000]

BTW, what are all these notes I'm getting about that Princess Pavilion I said was happening over a year ago? Did it get announced or leaked to a blogger?

Permits were filed. Based on your information is this going to just be an Anna and Else M&G or will they use it for other princesses?

 

[WDW1974]

Yep, and this is why Disney is being very secretive about details of their Shanghai Park

One reason ... just one reason ...

 

[WDW1974]

Permits were filed. Based on your information is this going to just be an Anna and Else M&G or will they use it for other princesses?

Gotta run ... but saw this when last post posted ...

I didn't know the permits were filed. So, I guess I was right again. Shocking.

I was told it was going to be a Princess Pavilion headlined by Frozen's gals ... I'd expect a rotation.

 

[StageFrenzy]

It needs to be a question about hard numbers, that can't be ducked, magic-ed or familied away. MyMagic+ seems to make Iger sweat and Wall Street Jumpy.
I'm surprised Wall Street hasn't made a CEO replacement value. If no new decisions were made how far would have company inertia taken them. Or if I replaced Iger with his VP and gave the VP a 10% raise would I notice a difference? How far down the line could I go and not effect day to day operations? These are things Wall Street loves reducing labor costs.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Have to admit that the more I think about that 2014 in review column by Blogging Foxxy, that I think the war has been lost. People who got hooked on Disney due to Walt ... due to DL ... due to WDW growing out of the swamp ... due to the amazing spectacle that was 1980s and into the 90s EPCOT Center ... even due to Michael Eisner's first 10-15 years with Disney ... we've all been beat by the newbs. The kiddies -- and adults -- who have either only been visiting in the 21st century or are simply BRAND addicts. Aided by Disney's relentless marketing and smarmy Social Media efforts in kissing up to Mommy Bloggers and well ... assorted misfits who will write or say anything to be accepted by cubicle dwellers in Celebration Place, the Dark Side has won.

Sure, we may get thrown a bone when they remove a giant cartoon hat a dozen years too late. But does any of it matter? What if there are things that are better or improved at WDW (and there absolutely are) if the entire product continues to be a lesser than one? A Walmarted one. A one where we stand out like there's something wrong with us because well we don't simply have familiarity with the WDW of old, we lived it ... from Treasure Island to River Country, from the Swan Boats to If You Had Wings, from shops with unique merchandise to restaurants with real menus, from Here's to the Future and You to A Year Long and A Smile Wide, from booking the Diamond Horseshoe Review on arrival to Jack Wagner on WDW Radio (the real deal, not whatever the Internet variety run by a slime bag), from Every Guest is a VIP to We Want Exceed Guests Expectations etc.?

I don't know, I really don't.

But this is a company that doesn't even have a Disney involved. This is a company that has fired or forced out more talent at Imagineering than it currently has. This is a company run by someone whose vision doesn't go beyond the next acquisition or playing with the next Apple toy like a typical 23-year-old with Daddy's Am Ex.

That's the conclusion I came to in 2010. WDW is what it is, take it or leave it.

You know my decision.

And concerning Iger's legacy. Walt created the company, Eisner created the empire, and Iger bought his street cred.

 

[Darth Sidious]

So more of the hat is gone:

And this is a nice sight:

#HatWatch

 

[FrankLapidus]

Have to admit that the more I think about that 2014 in review column by Blogging Foxxy, that I think the war has been lost. People who got hooked on Disney due to Walt ... due to DL ... due to WDW growing out of the swamp ... due to the amazing spectacle that was 1980s and into the 90s EPCOT Center ... even due to Michael Eisner's first 10-15 years with Disney ... we've all been beat by the newbs. The kiddies -- and adults -- who have either only been visiting in the 21st century or are simply BRAND addicts. Aided by Disney's relentless marketing and smarmy Social Media efforts in kissing up to Mommy Bloggers and well ... assorted misfits who will write or say anything to be accepted by cubicle dwellers in Celebration Place, the Dark Side has won.

Sure, we may get thrown a bone when they remove a giant cartoon hat a dozen years too late. But does any of it matter? What if there are things that are better or improved at WDW (and there absolutely are) if the entire product continues to be a lesser than one? A Walmarted one. A one where we stand out like there's something wrong with us because well we don't simply have familiarity with the WDW of old, we lived it ... from Treasure Island to River Country, from the Swan Boats to If You Had Wings, from shops with unique merchandise to restaurants with real menus, from Here's to the Future and You to A Year Long and A Smile Wide, from booking the Diamond Horseshoe Review on arrival to Jack Wagner on WDW Radio (the real deal, not whatever the Internet variety run by a slime bag), from Every Guest is a VIP to We Want Exceed Guests Expectations etc.?

I don't know, I really don't.

But this is a company that doesn't even have a Disney involved. This is a company that has fired or forced out more talent at Imagineering than it currently has. This is a company run by someone whose vision doesn't go beyond the next acquisition or playing with the next Apple toy like a typical 23-year-old with Daddy's Am Ex.

I absolutely share your disillusionment with the current leadership and their vision (or lack of one, creatively at least) for the company.

But I really do believe it matters that there are people like yourself and the other excellent posters on this forum who are so passionate about WDW and refuse to accept any less than the standards that the resort set for itself in years gone by. Speaking for myself, I still love spending some time strolling along Main Street and remembering the legendary geniuses who created the WDW that I was introduced to and who are immortalised in those windows. I enjoy reading the headstones at the Haunted Mansion even though I know that many people in the queue probably have no idea that they celebrate the contributions made by people like Yale Gracey and Leota Toombs to the creation of the attraction that those people are about to enjoy, one that has entertained millions of people for decades.

Maybe the reality is that I'm nostalgically clinging to something that isn't there any more but I still love the place too much to give up on it. As a whole its not what it once was, sometimes I absolutely despair of some of the changes being made there; going to the Polynesian last year and seeing what they've done to the lobby just depressed me. When I read rumours about attractions like the Swiss Family Treehouse or Tom Sawyer's Island going away it makes me contemplate where my breaking point will be, makes me contemplate just how clueless the current leadership might be about the incredible legacy that they've inherited.

In the grand scheme of things a hotel lobby refurbishment might not seem a big deal at all to some, for me its ripped the soul out of a hotel that I've loved for nearly twenty-five years.

I'm still holding on to a faint glimmer of hope that once Iger is gone, hopefully followed to pastures new by his goons Staggs and Rasulo, that the company will place its future in the hands of someone with a vision, someone who will recognise the legacy of Walt Disney and look to build on it through creative innovation and ingenuity. We need more John Lasseter's, people who care about Disney and have the ability to cultivate and bring a new generation of creative talent to the fore who can move the company to new heights on all fronts.

Like I said, its a faint glimmer but I've come close to giving up on Disney more than once in the past only to have that hope rewarded in some manner.

But places like this forum and posters like yourself do matter. We might be outnumbered but, as long we still care about the place enough to be as disillusioned as we are with its current state, we matter.

 

[Goofyernmost]

When I read rumours about attractions like the Swiss Family Treehouse or Tom Sawyer's Island going away it makes me contemplate where my breaking point will be, makes me contemplate just how clueless the current leadership might be about the incredible legacy that they've inherited.

If it helps, I have not heard any rumors concerning SFT or TSI going anyplace. There may have been a few posters that wondered if they might be on the chopping block, but, to my knowledge no serious insider discussion has included that possibility.

 

[MrTomHamilton]

I have pondered what if I was like my favorite gal 'Angie' ... what if my first visit to WDW was only in 2004 instead of 1974? Would I even like the place? How would it touch me? Would it affect me on the same level walking into Epcot that walking into EPCOT Center in 1982 did? Would my age matter ... meaning if I were a child in 2004 would I have been as wowed as I was back in '74? All interesting questions to think about.

I've thought about this myself, and I can't quite decide how I would feel. The WDW I grew up on was special to me and had a huge impact - not just because I was a kid and a teenager and more impressionable, but because it was truly something special. I think that's part of what sustains me on my trips now. Like someone else above mentioned, I can't quite give up on it. I keep holding out hope that something will change.

Of course, hearing that a perfectly good spot for another WS country is going to be commandeered by a Princess Party doesn't strengthen my hope.