A Spirited Perfect Ten

[tirian]

For China TWDC should have partnered with someone like the Wanda Group, Disney could have provided the expertise and done licensing deals, Wanda KNOWS what the Chinese market wants, Disney is trying to clone its business in China where it will not work right now as 'Hello Kitty' is far, far better known than Mickey Mouse and the rest of the Fab Five.

Disney should have built a park in Brazil, Yes it would have cannibalized some of the Orlando trade but the South Americans LOVE Disney so why not give them what they WANT because that's also a huge untapped market and it's one which is favorable to US based businesses much more so than China.

Disney could have expanded to China, where the corrupt government controls everything, or to Brazil, where the drug lords control everything. Guess which one would have made WDW fans happier (and more comfortable in the parks).

 

[ford91exploder]

To build in the mainland is a no brainer and in the play on the words of Ms. Aswad, a "Disney must do". However, foreign development must be done with a cultural awareness of the market being penatrated as not to repeat the performance of Euro Disney.

Very much disagree on building in the Mainland, Unless you have lived and worked there you cannot possibly understand how different China is from the western world, Even handing over a business card is a ceremony and the card must be presented with BOTH hands and it needs to be in most cases Mandarin.

I have business cards especially FOR China, They are printed on one side in ideographs and the other side english and they are of higher quality than my 'rest of world' cards. And yes you present the Chinese side.

 

[tirian]

This has been an interesting weekend thanks to the disappearing article. First I learned a new English word: "graft" (in case anyone wonders why it was new to me: English is not my first language). To be honest, when I first read that article after a link was posted here, I kind of ignored that little blurb about graft. It wasn't until people were talking about this and the 800 million dollars and where they went after the article had vanished, that I actually went to my preferred online dictionary to find out what the hell they were talking about.

And then I was surprised that people seem to look at this whole topic more in a way as if that was affecting Iger's ego. I was surprised that bribing foreign officials might not be a crime in the US and poked around on Wikipedia. Of course it is a crime, there is something called Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

I was surprised to read that it is enforced not only by the Department of Justice, but also by the SEC. So, this is not only a matter of criminal law, but also a matter of securities law. I get that Iger might have a big ego - but big enough for just pulling an article that called him "vanilla on toothpaste"??? But an article that might get the SEC interested in how TWDC conducts business in China? That might be a nightmare for a CEO I would think. So, suddenly that whole story made more sense to me...

Granted, rumors suggest some of the $800 million had to reconstruct poorly made buildings.

 

[ford91exploder]

Disney could have expanded to China, where the corrupt government controls everything, or to Brazil, where the drug lords control everything. Guess which one would have made WDW fans happier (and more comfortable in the parks).

You are being unfair to Brazil, Yes there are drug lords there but Brazil is building a thriving middle class economy, They build excellent aircraft i'm sure you have heard of Embraer and they are among the worlds best in deepwater petroleum production as well as using the byproducts of their sugar production to produce ethanol for auto fuel.

So Brazil would have been an excellent location for Disney I think.

Yes they still have a LONG way to go but they are building industry to produce jobs for Brazilians and in a generation the poverty in the big cities should be a thing of the past.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Why would Disney openly announce, with lots of fanfare and neon spotlights, an extra $800 million if it intended to use it for shady purposes?

Why would the bill for graft, and friends and business partners, come after the park is nearly done already, instead of before?

EuroDisney teaches that Disney does not shy away from making billions appear and disappear like 1937 Magician Mickey. Disney can hide pocket change like $800 million anywhere if it wanted or needed.


It doesn't make sense. I go with Occam's Razor, and opt for the simplest explanation being the most likely. think Disney simply hid some costs overruns in that number. That, and the usual Disney speak that talks of replacements as expansions and extra costs and unforeseen necessary investment as new offerings.

 

[BrianLo]

Have we not already seen time and time again that an IP doesn't have to be well known or beloved (or in fact even known at all) to create a great, highly sought after, theme park product?

SDL is very light on IP as is, half the headliners aren't based on any properties per-say, and previous knowledge of Tron/Pirates likely won't effect the enjoyment of either of those attractions.

SDL will live and die by being a great theme park that puts the Happy Valleys of the world to shame. Knowing who Mickey Mouse is won't really effect that. Of course, the hope is that a decade from now, Mickey becomes synonymous with that theme park with the bonus of the mainlanders developing an affinity for Disney they previously never held.

The far more important factor is not whether the Chinese like Disney, it is whether they like the concept of theme parks. The answer is already a resounding yes.

 

[asianway]

This has been an interesting weekend thanks to the disappearing article. First I learned a new English word: "graft" (in case anyone wonders why it was new to me: English is not my first language). To be honest, when I first read that article after a link was posted here, I kind of ignored that little blurb about graft. It wasn't until people were talking about this and the 800 million dollars and where they went after the article had vanished, that I actually went to my preferred online dictionary to find out what the hell they were talking about.

And then I was surprised that people seem to look at this whole topic more in a way as if that was affecting Iger's ego. I was surprised that bribing foreign officials might not be a crime in the US and poked around on Wikipedia. Of course it is a crime, there is something called Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

I was surprised to read that it is enforced not only by the Department of Justice, but also by the SEC. So, this is not only a matter of criminal law, but also a matter of securities law. I get that Iger might have a big ego - but big enough for just pulling an article that called him "vanilla on toothpaste"??? But an article that might get the SEC interested in how TWDC conducts business in China? That might be a nightmare for a CEO I would think. So, suddenly that whole story made more sense to me...

If you don't know the word Graft then you must have never seen Mr Smith Goes to Washington. I highly recommend it.

 

[Cesar R M]

Yet, the original question has not been addressed. Where did the $800MM go?

POOF.. GONE!

gone.. like my magic's budget!!!

 

[Cesar R M]

This drama with the disappearing article (and disappearing $800m) is getting way too interesting. Edge of your seat stuff, right here! Might make a good movie someday.

its popcorn worthy, thats for sure.

 

[GoofGoof]

For China TWDC should have partnered with someone like the Wanda Group, Disney could have provided the expertise and done licensing deals, Wanda KNOWS what the Chinese market wants, Disney is trying to clone its business in China where it will not work right now as 'Hello Kitty' is far, far better known than Mickey Mouse and the rest of the Fab Five.

Disney should have built a park in Brazil, Yes it would have cannibalized some of the Orlando trade but the South Americans LOVE Disney so why not give them what they WANT because that's also a huge untapped market and it's one which is favorable to US based businesses much more so than China.

I don't understand why Disney not being known in China would be a reason to not want to expand there. It's the whole point. It's a huge challenge, but the rewards are huge if you pull it off. There aren't new customers to tap into in the US and areas that Disney is well established. Opening a theme park and introducing millions/billions of new customers to Disney characters and merchandise is not only a win for the P&R segment but a potential windfall for merchandise and DVD sales.

I think Brazil may have worked too, but it's not as attractive an option as China. It's much more likely that Brazilian tourists would visit parks in FL or CA then for Chinese tourists. It's a vastly untapped market. I have no knowledge of the decision making process, but how do we know Disney didn't reach out to Wanda or some other local businesses to parter with? Would these businesses even want to do it? Would they want to have WDI calling the shots and handling design and construction? Why wouldn't they just build your own Hello Kitty park and keep total control. The situation with OLC in Japan is very unique. Disney and American culture in general are an easy sell. I'm pretty sure if Disney got an offer to set everything up like they have in Japan they would jump at it. Short of having that option the 2 choices are go at it alone or skip the project.

 

[Bolna]

If you don't know the word Graft then you must have never seen Mr Smith Goes to Washington. I highly recommend it.

I saw it - dubbed into German. Like they do with all movies here...

 

[GoofGoof]

To build in the mainland is a no brainer and in the play on the words of Ms. Aswad, a "Disney must do". However, foreign development must be done with a cultural awareness of the market being penatrated as not to repeat the performance of Euro Disney.

This is where I believe the lack of execution comes in. Building in China is not a bad idea at, it's actually a really good one. It seems like maybe a bit of a fumble out of the gates so far with delays and cost overruns. There's still time to fix things and end up with a successful project. My suspicion is that a lot of the extra $800M is going towards getting things back on track.

 

[tirian]

You are being unfair to Brazil, Yes there are drug lords there but Brazil is building a thriving middle class economy, They build excellent aircraft i'm sure you have heard of Embraer and they are among the worlds best in deepwater petroleum production as well as using the byproducts of their sugar production to produce ethanol for auto fuel.

So Brazil would have been an excellent location for Disney I think.

Yes they still have a LONG way to go but they are building industry to produce jobs for Brazilians and in a generation the poverty in the big cities should be a thing of the past.

It was a joke—hence the winking smiley face in the post.

 

[ford91exploder]

It was a joke—hence the winking smiley face in the post.

Sorry taking stuff too seriously

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Oscar Musings:

No, don't know who will win and don't really care. Could be that I've never been to the Oscars while I'm a regular at other major awards such as the Emmys. Or it may be that because of family death and illness I haven't seen a film since last summer. I just don't care.

Doncha all think that if Bob Iger really wanted to make something disappear from the Internet for good that he might have asked his Chinese 'partners' for advice? Because this amateur hour stuff is like telling kids 'Don't go in the basement until after Christmas.' Suddenly, people who would have had no interest in a HuffPo Business Op-Ed want to find out exactly what Bob doesn't want you to read. Or should I say Willow because she stands to lose big time in this one if folks go after her for her role?

I told y'all that Run Disney would be coming to DLP soon. Wonder how many WDW and DLR runners of the out of shape, just want a medal variety will go across the Pond to 'earn' one.

I have to say that I am very disappointed in the Disney Twitverse. When you're talking about Bob Iger, Tom Staggs and Jay Rasulo possibly engaging in illegal activity that could result in total regime change at TWDC, which a vast majority would favor, why do you ignore it? You're missing a grand opportunity to help make change because you're petulant brats. But go ahead and whine about Disney raising prices again or talk about how fast UNI is building Kong ... or fight about fake grass in the Hub at the MK ... because that is so much more important than what Bob Iger doesn't want you -- and, more importantly, Wall Street to read. You will never have a bigger chance to use your wonderful social media to help bring about CHANGE than right now. Ignore it if you like the status quo. But whether you like certain Spirits or not, I do know what I am talking about here.

Oh, and just so we are clear, that is the only conclusion I can reach that makes any sense based on the facts available. There may have been no accusations whatsoever made against Disney in that column, no mention at all about this 'mystery $800 million for SDL expansion and added attractions' yet multiple Industry people have told me that Bob likely feared that was coming next and ordered the takedown. It's been about as successful as a fanboi playing it straight at an Imagineering mixer! You don't go after someone unless you fear their voice and information.

It's fun to ignore censorship, btw, until your voice is the one being silenced and no one is there to help you be heard. As a writer and former journalist, this angers me beyond belief. It should anger anyone who cares about basic rights.

Have you seen this? I think this was written by Disney's Shendi 'partners' as it reads like it:
https://www.wallstreet.org/2015/02/...hina-theme-park-will-open-in-2016/149659.html

 

[Sped2424]

Spirited Oscar Musings:

No, don't know who will win and don't really care. Could be that I've never been to the Oscars while I'm a regular at other major awards such as the Emmys. Or it may be that because of family death and illness I haven't seen a film since last summer. I just don't care.

Doncha all think that if Bob Iger really wanted to make something disappear from the Internet for good that he might have asked his Chinese 'partners' for advice? Because this amateur hour stuff is like telling kids 'Don't go in the basement until after Christmas.' Suddenly, people who would have had no interest in a HuffPo Business Op-Ed want to find out exactly what Bob doesn't want you to read. Or should I say Willow because she stands to lose big time in this one if folks go after her for her role?

I told y'all that Run Disney would be coming to DLP soon. Wonder how many WDW and DLR runners of the out of shape, just want a medal variety will go across the Pond to 'earn' one.

I have to say that I am very disappointed in the Disney Twitverse. When you're talking about Bob Iger, Tom Staggs and Jay Rasulo possibly engaging in illegal activity that could result in total regime change at TWDC, which a vast majority would favor, why do you ignore it? You're missing a grand opportunity to help make change because you're petulant brats. But go ahead and whine about Disney raising prices again or talk about how fast UNI is building Kong ... or fight about fake grass in the Hub at the MK ... because that is so much more important than what Bob Iger doesn't want you -- and, more importantly, Wall Street to read. You will never have a bigger chance to use your wonderful social media to help bring about CHANGE than right now. Ignore it if you like the status quo. But whether you like certain Spirits or not, I do know what I am talking about here.

Oh, and just so we are clear, that is the only conclusion I can reach that makes any sense based on the facts available. There may have been no accusations whatsoever made against Disney in that column, no mention at all about this 'mystery $800 million for SDL expansion and added attractions' yet multiple Industry people have told me that Bob likely feared that was coming next and ordered the takedown. It's been about as successful as a fanboi playing it straight at an Imagineering mixer! You don't go after someone unless you fear their voice and information.

It's fun to ignore censorship, btw, until your voice is the one being silenced and no one is there to help you be heard.

Have you seen this? I think this was written by Disney's Shendi 'partners' as it reads like it:
https://www.wallstreet.org/2015/02/...hina-theme-park-will-open-in-2016/149659.html

What did iger do o.o

 

[WDW1974]

Being a publicly traded company they have to be questioned at some point? Right? I mean they are not immune to the "opinions" of Wall St. especially when we are talking possibly $2.5b+ of wasted/non-accounted for money? Confusing. WHo will hold them (Iger) accountable? Maybe it will come to a head about the time he is ready to retire in the old "Save Disney" fashion and a team will try to come in and take it over? Sorry for the questions but this f'ing company is becoming nothing more than one big question mark!

Corps largely don't have to answer to anyone. I'd guess, depending on what happens in the next few weeks, a very beefed up security presence at Disney's shareholders meeting in San Francisco designed to intimidate folks who might want to ask (or do) pointed questions of Iger and his team.

The line Disney is peddling now, according to my favorite analyst who actually is working this weekend!, is that the $800 million is for 'added capacity and some unexpected costs' ... in other words, total BS. But the kind that would easily stop the line of questioning dead in its tracks, would easily make most Iger lovers satisfied even with no proof to back any of it up (think of NGE, right @ParentsOf4?) No one is going to make Iger and Staggs and Rasulo account for where this money went. It's company money and they can move it around like a shell game. The only issue is if it went to grease officials palms in the mainland. That is criminal (both there and here). And Disney is going to do whatever it takes for them to not have to answer any questions on the matter.

 

[WDW1974]

Money going to government officials in return for favors is a violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, a federal criminal violation. If true, this is more than legacy. This would place Iger in the Corporate Hall of Fame alongside of Ley, Corzine, and Ebbers.

The issue is proving it. Very, very tough. Almost impossible when you're dealing with China unless they want to 'change' the terms of their deal with TWDC.

And I want to make it clear that I am not saying that is the case. I am saying that Bob, Willow and Disney's behavior in the last week certainly makes one think that it well could be the case. They sure as hell are hiding something and, no, it's not a plussed 21st century WRE attraction for SDL hosted by the Orange Bird and his Chinese pal, Dim Sum.

 

[WDW1974]

I didn't get that from the article that was pulled. I'll have to go back and re-read it. Anything is possible and anyone doing business in China is going to deal with some level of corruption. $800M seems a bit excessive for bribing local officials. I'm not saying it's not a distinct possibility that some of the excess funds went to bribes, but I just think regular budget overruns seem a lot more likely of a scenario.

Ah, but that isn't what Iger and Staggs are on the record in many reputable news sources as saying. And only in the past week (since that story came out ... again, with no mention of this subject as that is something that we've been talking about HERE) are folks at Disney suddenly whispering 'over runs' ... Guess what? No one would blame them or make a big deal out of that.

Disney is acting like a guilty party does. Guilty of what?

 

[WDW1974]

I haven't been to Mainland China, so I can't really comment on that, but you see a lot of Westerners (probably not Americans) in Hong Kong. In Macau, the only other area of China (still just a SAR) I've visited, it was decidedly more Eastern, but I'm guessing still with more of a Western flavor than the mainland. Even HKDL feels decidedly more Westernized than TDR. I know this has nothing to do with park demographics, maps, and all that, but figured I'd at least offer my 2 cents before asking about this HuffPo article...

Largely true on all counts. But westerners are in decline in HK and have been since the handover in 1997 same for Macau two years later. How many total days have you spent in HK? How many away from DL and other touristy locales? I can tell you that in just a few years between visits that I noticed a marked decline in western faces.

Yes, HKDL is definitely more western feeling than TDR, but that's simply a result of its history and makeup I'd suggest. The fact that language has never been a barrier for me at all in HK again speaks to its history as a center for finance and commerce. Tokyo really has been, by far, the place with the fewest English speakers. And TDR is much worse than other tourist areas.

This is the first I've heard of it. What I'm gleaning from this thread is that there was something critical of TWDC in Shanghai (I'm "shocked" by the way) in the HuffPo, and the article was "inexplicably" pulled? Anyone happen to save a copy or have a link to any sites that reposted it?

Have you seen it yet? I have a copy here somewhere ...