A Spirited Perfect Ten

[WDW1974]

Our she could stand in front of the world and honestly say "...that is how corporate journalism works in a Plutocracy. You play by the rules of who pulls the strings." The question is, "Do you want to make it in journalism? Or do you want to be a journalist?". Two very different things in today's world.

So true. It sickens me.

It appears as though the freaking student newspaper isn't allowed to mention that Willow's husband is Bob Iger. How effed up is that? I just can't ...

 

[bhg469]

The issue is proving it. Very, very tough. Almost impossible when you're dealing with China unless they want to 'change' the terms of their deal with TWDC.

And I want to make it clear that I am not saying that is the case. I am saying that Bob, Willow and Disney's behavior in the last week certainly makes one think that it well could be the case. They sure as hell are hiding something and, no, it's not a plussed 21st century WRE attraction for SDL hosted by the Orange Bird and his Chinese pal, Dim Sum.

Mmm dim sum.... wait a second... Why is there no dim sum in wdw?

 

[cdd89]

Whether or not SDL is a success (and I am pretty sure it will be - the reasons for DLRP and HKDL's initial failures are well documented and Disney show no signs of making them again) - a lot depends on tailoring the product to the region, and that's what makes international resorts so exciting (IMHO).

Paris may have seriously dropped the ball here, but eating from the "trolley Dim Sum" at Plaza Gardens in HDKL was a great authentic experience unlike anything I've experienced at any Disney resort. I currently rate HKDL as my favourite castle park (possibly unfairly - I'm easily biased by uniqueness!), and I love how the resort is a manageable size while still feeling removed from the real world.

The point of this is to say - it looks like SDL will follow these same model, only better. The political involvement of the Chinese government (the extent of which we really have no idea of!) is a concern and could potentially be a cause of failure, but on the other hand it's nice to have something forcing TWDC's hand away from more cloned attractions and experiences. Maybe I'm hopelessly naive, but I really don't see how it can fail - even with the various scandals and rocky starts along the way.

 

[George]

Why would Disney openly announce, with lots of fanfare and neon spotlights, an extra $800 million if it intended to use it for shady purposes?

Why would the bill for graft, and friends and business partners, come after the park is nearly done already, instead of before?

Ummmm.................ever heard of hiding in plain sight, dumb dumb head?

 

[BrerJon]

Whether or not SDL is a success (and I am pretty sure it will be - the reasons for DLRP and HKDL's initial failures are well documented and Disney show no signs of making them again) - a lot depends on tailoring the product to the region, and that's what makes international resorts so exciting (IMHO).

Wow, from your sig it seems you visited every Disney park in the world in 2014, good work!

I suspect Shanghai will be a success eventually, just not in the first year to the extent Disney are currently saying - figures only being bandied about to dodge questions from Wall Street and give stockholders dollar signs in their eyes to make them not question the numbers.

The trouble is the lessons from the other international parks are just half the problem. It's not just about making the park tailored to local tastes, but about making them know what Disney and Disney parks even are. They already have theme parks in China, so that in itself is nothing novel, and without brand history, awareness, fondness for the characters and a reputation for quality, Disney is just another random American company few have heard of building a park. This is a country where Frozen tanked at the Box Office.

To capture the Chinese imagination what they're building needs to be mind-blowing, beyond anything the Chinese have seen before. China already has theme parks - Happy Valley gets great reviews and about 3.2M visitors a year. Disney is predicting eight times as many people will go to Shanghai Disney in the first year as currently go to China's most popular comparable park. *Eight times*.

What is going to make Shanghai Disney eight times better than anything currently in China? What we know so far - a Tron coaster, the Dwarfs Mine Train, Beefed-up Pirates, a big castle and a pretty garden... is all nice enough, but I'm yet to see anything that would get the average Chinese person with no prior knowledge of Disney salivating at the prospect of visiting. Will they break 15M? Possibly, but 25? Very, very unlikely.

 

[FigmentJedi]

It's Oscar Night. You know what that means: A comedian will make condescending patronizing remarks that basically amount to "We only have this category as cartoons don't count as real movies" while presenting the awards in the Animation categories, which will go to Disney/Dreamworks only because "It made my kid/grandkid shut up for two hours".

 

[Tigger1988]

Furthermore, if you have knowledge of it have you gone to the authorities or the media?

Good question.

 

[GoofGoof]

Ah, but that isn't what Iger and Staggs are on the record in many reputable news sources as saying. And only in the past week (since that story came out ... again, with no mention of this subject as that is something that we've been talking about HERE) are folks at Disney suddenly whispering 'over runs' ... Guess what? No one would blame them or make a big deal out of that.

Disney is acting like a guilty party does. Guilty of what?

Agreed. They are lying about something. One lie is sadly a pretty common corporate practice...the other a federal crime. I think Iger's ego comes into play. Eisner caught some criticism for cost overruns at EuroDisney and Iger wants to show he can do his project on budget. As soon as they made the announcement about the extra $800M I assumed it was because the project is behind schedule and over budget.

I'd be really surprised to see the park open with a lot of additional rides. Of course since they never officially announced what's coming to the park it's hard to definitively nail them on that. I honestly think the street would have been more interested in this extra money if things weren't going so well in other parts of the business. They are too busy patting Iger on the back for "another great quarter" to question these things critically.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

It's Oscar Night. You know what that means: A comedian will make condescending patronizing remarks that basically amount to "We only have this category as cartoons don't count as real movies" while presenting the awards in the Animation categories, which will go to Disney/Dreamworks only because "It made my kid/grandkid shut up for two hours".

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/award-se...ters-are-clueless-about-animation-109456.html

Voter #5: I only watch the ones that my kid wants to see, so I didn’t see [The] Boxtrolls but I saw Big Hero 6 and I saw [How to Train Your] Dragon [2]. We both connected to Big Hero 6 — I just found it to be more satisfying. The biggest snub for me was Chris Miller and Phil Lord not getting in for [The] Lego [Movie]. When a movie is that successful and culturally hits all the right chords and does that kind of box-office — for that movie not to be in over these two obscure freakin’ Chinese f--kin’ things that nobody ever freakin’ saw [an apparent reference to the Japanese film The Tale of the Princess Kaguya, as well as the Irish film Song of the Sea]? That is my biggest . Most people didn’t even know what they were! How does that happen? That, to me, is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen.
MY VOTE:Big Hero 6

By the way, you guys should definitely seek out Song of the Sea and The Tale of The Princess Kaguya. One of which was co-financed by Walt Disney Japan.

 

[bhg469]

It's Oscar Night. You know what that means: A comedian will make condescending patronizing remarks that basically amount to "We only have this category as cartoons don't count as real movies" while presenting the awards in the Animation categories, which will go to Disney/Dreamworks only because "It made my kid/grandkid shut up for two hours".

Lego movie was a good movie let alone an animated one. The Oscars are a joke for not nominating it.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Lego movie was a good movie let alone an animated one. The Oscars are a joke for not nominating it.

I'd of actually have been okay with bumping Boxtrolls or BH6 out for it. Kaguya and Song of the Sea earned their spots.

 

[GoofGoof]

Wow, from your sig it seems you visited every Disney park in the world in 2014, good work!

I suspect Shanghai will be a success eventually, just not in the first year to the extent Disney are currently saying - figures only being bandied about to dodge questions from Wall Street and give stockholders dollar signs in their eyes to make them not question the numbers.

The trouble is the lessons from the other international parks are just half the problem. It's not just about making the park tailored to local tastes, but about making them know what Disney and Disney parks even are. They already have theme parks in China, so that in itself is nothing novel, and without brand history, awareness, fondness for the characters and a reputation for quality, Disney is just another random American company few have heard of building a park. This is a country where Frozen tanked at the Box Office.

To capture the Chinese imagination what they're building needs to be mind-blowing, beyond anything the Chinese have seen before. China already has theme parks - Happy Valley gets great reviews and about 3.2M visitors a year. Disney is predicting eight times as many people will go to Shanghai Disney in the first year as currently go to China's most popular comparable park. *Eight times*.

What is going to make Shanghai Disney eight times better than anything currently in China? What we know so far - a Tron coaster, the Dwarfs Mine Train, Beefed-up Pirates, a big castle and a pretty garden... is all nice enough, but I'm yet to see anything that would get the average Chinese person with no prior knowledge of Disney salivating at the prospect of visiting. Will they break 15M? Possibly, but 25? Very, very unlikely.

If they actually get 25 million people what would they do with them all? That's close to 70,000 people a day on average. The MK in Florida starts closing the parking lots and begins phased closures at that point. It usually only happens on extreme crowd days like Christmas week and Spring Break. The park is at best downright uncomfortable on those days and at worst unsafe. Now imagine that's the average day so some days are going to be even more packed. What's even worse is the MK in Florida has over 30 rides. I haven't heard anything about this park having even that many rides on opening day. Lines are going to be 2 to 3 hours for even B and C ticket rides. It would be miserable.

 

[WDWFigment]

I've been to Hong Kong for DL's opening and my best friend goes to mainland China every few weeks for work (non-Disney related). The public at large has no emotional connection to Disney. None. This park could still be successful, but it will not be like American parks that coast off a reputation built up in the general consciousness.

In most Communist countries, "Disney" = "Western Capitalism and Excess." Why would anyone in the WDC think Shanghai was a good idea?

You know...if this were 15-20 years ago, we wouldn't even be talking about the lack of emotional connection being an issue. Disney being Disney (then) would have been enough to forge such a connection through a high quality, highly engaging park. I mean, IP has always helped Disney parks succeed, but I think there was a time when Disney didn't need IP as a crutch. Now, I'm not sure leadership has the same confidence to venture beyond established IP.

It seems that in Shanghai, they will have to. I still think Disney can do it, but I'm just not sure those making the decisions at present can.

Personally...I think Shanghai was a good idea. In hindsight, it's sounding like some of the ways they went about the project weren't the best, but that doesn't mean the project itself was a bad idea. Just that the means to the end were.

As for the "Western Capitalism and Excess" remark, I've encountered enough mainlanders (our last visit to HK fell over a national holiday with HUGE tour groups visiting) to know that conspicuous consumption is just as much a thing in China as it is in the United States.

Largely true on all counts. But westerners are in decline in HK and have been since the handover in 1997 same for Macau two years later. How many total days have you spent in HK? How many away from DL and other touristy locales? I can tell you that in just a few years between visits that I noticed a marked decline in western faces.

Yes, HKDL is definitely more western feeling than TDR, but that's simply a result of its history and makeup I'd suggest. The fact that language has never been a barrier for me at all in HK again speaks to its history as a center for finance and commerce. Tokyo really has been, by far, the place with the fewest English speakers. And TDR is much worse than other tourist areas.

Have you seen it yet? I have a copy here somewhere ...

We've spent a total of about 10 days in and around Hong Kong (outside of the parks), with about 3 of those days outside tourist spots. My most illuminating experience in Hong Kong was heading to Civic Square for a few hours during the Umbrella Movement on our last trip, and talking to some of the students. It was really, really fascinating, and I certainly heard and saw a lot of things that simply were not being reported in the media, either in HK or in the US.

Probably not the smartest idea in hindsight (we left just a few hours before the triads started getting violent with the demonstrators for the first time), but it felt like a rare opportunity to see a pivotal moment in a major city's evolution, and we couldn't pass it up.

Plus, during the daytime, it was pretty quiet most of the time we were there, so it wasn't exactly dangerous or anything:
https://instagram.com/p/twGDleiwPA/?modal=true

EDIT: I can't get the photo to embed, but the link is above...

 

[BrerJon]

If they actually get 25 million people what would they do with them all? That's close to 70,000 people a day on average.

I think I've figured out their plan. The Main Street area, and the Downtown Disney section, will be before the turnstiles, and thus free entry to all. But they'll still 'count' as being on Shanghai Disney resort property, so they can spin every person who comes to take a look as being a guest, claim 25M visitors to the resort, but not have anywhere close to that number going inside the park or paying for a ticket.

 

[cdd89]

Wow, from your sig it seems you visited every Disney park in the world in 2014, good work!

Not quite - I didn't make it to Tokyo Disneyland Park (just DisneySea). I'm planning to make the time for it some time in the first half of this year!

It's not just about making the park tailored to local tastes, but about making them know what Disney and Disney parks even are. [.…] To capture the Chinese imagination what they're building needs to be mind-blowing, beyond anything the Chinese have seen before. China already has theme parks - Happy Valley gets great reviews and about 3.2M visitors a year. Disney is predicting eight times as many people will go to Shanghai Disney in the first year as currently go to China's most popular comparable park.

Oh, I don't deny the projections are hugely puffed up. I should clarify and say I don't think they'll make a loss.

I've been to a few non-Disney parks in Asia (not Happy Valley!) and I think calling them "theme" parks is pretty charitable. Lotte World in Seoul is supposedly second to TDL in Asia - and while it's impressive, the attractions and creative direction leave a lot to be desired. Their "Sindbad" boat ride is the closest they come to a classic Disney attraction, and I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about when I say it's the antithesis of the DisneySea Sindbad attraction.

My point is - I think surpassing the quality of the "best" China currently has to offer isn't going to be that difficult. With other Western products - Google, YouTube, Facebook, and western film releases - the Chinese government had no incentive for their success (and as can be seen, every inventive to stymie them). The stakes are very different with SDL. A failing SDL would reflect badly on China, and potentially slow down future investment. This project wouldn't have even got off the ground without Beijing's approval. As such, it seems pretty likely the state controlled media will be saying very nice things about SDL as the launch approaches. From there, "quality will out"... as will Disney's name as a respected brand who has made a name for itself in mainland China.

China isn't a free market, and the rules for success are going to be very different. So far, it looks like Disney is playing on the right side of those rules.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think I've figured out their plan. The Main Street area, and the Downtown Disney section, will be before the turnstiles, and thus free entry to all. But they'll still 'count' as being on Shanghai Disney resort property, so they can spin every person who comes to take a look as being a guest, claim 25M visitors to the resort, but not have anywhere close to that number going inside the park or paying for a ticket.

That's possible. 25 million overall visitors not 25 million in theme park attendance. I would think if this thing is successful and they build a 2nd gate they could get to 25 million in theme park attendance, but in one park it would be quite crowded.

 

[TalkingHead]

Is it too late to get Steve Martin or Martin Short or virtually anyone else to host the Oscars?

 

[Tony Perkis]

It's Oscar Night. You know what that means: A comedian will make condescending patronizing remarks that basically amount to "We only have this category as cartoons don't count as real movies" while presenting the awards in the Animation categories, which will go to Disney/Dreamworks only because "It made my kid/grandkid shut up for two hours".

Lego Movie was still robbed.

Also, Chris Miller and Phil Lord need to produce next year's show.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

So true. It sickens me.

It appears as though the freaking student newspaper isn't allowed to mention that Willow's husband is Bob Iger. How effed up is that? I just can't ...

I don't know if they updated the story or not, but I first read it this morning and it was there (I was curious myself to see if they would mention it, so I noted it before I read Spirit's first post about it):

"What does the future hold for media in the digital age? Students and faculty at the USC Annenberg School for Communication and Journalism try to answer that question every day.

On Feb. 17, the query was posed to two of the most influential people in media: Bob Iger, chairman and CEO of Disney, and Graydon Carter, editor of Vanity Fair.

“Managing Media in the Digital Age,” was moderated by Willow Bay, director of the School of Journalism, who introduced the principals before handing it over to Iger, her husband, to lead to a conversation with Carter at Wallis Annenberg Hall."

 

[WDW1974]

God, this show is more boring than last year's ... we didn't even get a shot of Bob Iger (who wasn't thanked) when Big Hero 6 won.

But dropping in because I saw @Cosmic Commando 's post attempting to correct what he thought was a misstatement by me. I don't know where he got the above quote, but The Daily Trojan story right here: http://dailytrojan.com/2015/02/17/disney-ceo-and-vf-editor-discuss-media/ does not mention Bay and Iger are married.