A Spirited Perfect Ten

WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
@flynnibus raised some interesting points in his wordy post about the makeup of the fan community and, indeed, this one. Lots of things I'd like to say, but limited time. You might say I'm working on China time this evening. :)

I'd just like to talk about why I'm here and what I care about.

I am a critic, a shareholder, a member of the larger business and, yes, above all -- a fan/consumer.

I'm not here to give Disney free consulting (I know what they pay consultants!) and I'm not here to defend a heartless corporation that hasn't really been Walt's company for many decades now. And I'm certainly no BRAND advocate.

It all started so innocently, back two decades ago when everyone didn't have a voice online and the 'net was new. My first posts were attempts to help folks with trip planning matters and the ever-futile effort to correct misinformation (think how laughably quaint such a notion is today) etc. I was quite friendly with execs and Imagineers and people in all facets of TWDC, and while it never crossed my mind in those wild west days that important eyes were watching, I was much more careful about what I pointed out. For instance, guys at WDI that I just despised like Barry Braverman and Timur Galen execs ...well, the point here is that I let others, like Al Lutz, go after them.

Somehow, about a year after DCA opened and it was obvious that the company needed new leadership and, yes, even 9/11 and the police state it created, just turned a switch in me and I started posting much more serious stuff and taking no prisoners. By that point any/every one with any significance at Disney started to realize exactly who this 74 character was/is, but it didn't matter to me. Opening eyes that were glued shut with Pixie Dust sorta became my reason for being online.

Disney doesn't need, no company needs, a fan community that mindlessly supports every action that it takes. Much more important that fans who care hold their feet to the fire ...or burn a few at the stake as required.

And now here we are and it is 2015 and ...some of the most wonderful, amazing Spirits have come into my life because of this crazy persona that ultimately wants Disney to simply be Disney and people (and corps) to live up to standards and ethics and their own words. So, has it been worth the threats, the special treatment by my 'friends' at TWDC, the fanbois making some ... Um ... Ahm ...interesting proposals, the Lifestylers peddling my secret identity to Celebration Place drones in hopes of getting on 'the list'?

Hell yeah! Just a shame I can't be enjoying a rainy afternoon at my favorite little park on Lantau right now
(Hong Kongers are like SoCal residents when it rains and the temp dips below 68, they hide in bed!!!)
 
Next Big Thing

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
A market that has played 'follow the leader' and is overpriced to start with. Mini golf for comparison up here in a pure resort town costs $8-9 on the high end, and is generally $5-6 for early bird rates. Up until recent additions that pushed prices up... $6-8 was more common in the last 3-5 years.

http://oldprogolf.com/ocean-city-maryland-mini-golf-pricing/
http://www.embersisland.com/courseinfo.php

Note, this is a pure resort town with all the normal 'vacation markups' you commonly see... in a place where the lot the course sits on probably costs upwards of a million dollars+... unlike FL swamp.
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What is your point though? Movie tickets cost upwards of $5-6 more than the norm in NYC. Both areas are tourist traps and NYC is even worse because of the amount of wealthy people that live there.

Just because mini-golf costs a certain price where you live doesn't mean it will be like that everywhere. Everywhere is different based on the market and the demand. Obviously $12-14 is what people are willing to pay in Orlando, so why go lower?
 
T

twebber55

Well-Known Member
dhall said:
... which is even worse when you think about the considerable decline in the quality of the concept art over the last few years.
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i personally like the new concept art for the pirates ride in Shanghai and the concept art for avatar (although i get dylan cole did that)
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
raven24 said:
I myself get offended when people compare Disney parks to Six Flags parks, as a fan of Six Flags.
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Six Flags has had a rather signifigant impact on Disney over the years. FastPass/+ and under building rides, really the whole current business model that Pressler introduced and is still used at Disneyland Resort and Walt Disney World, is Disney trying to get a handle on single price admission, a concept pioneered by Six Flags.
 
JediMasterMatt

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
WildcatDen said:
King's Island Season Pass Holder here (over 12 years). And while Cedar Fair cannot really compare to Disney in many areas, Disney can definitely not compare to Cedar Fair in others.
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It's a lot easier to compare Cedar Fair run parks to Disney these days since Matt Ouimet has taken over. I have seen a very solid understanding of hitting at the core of what each of the Cedar Fair parks in the chain are best at and he's already righted the ship from the Paramount "reach exceeding the grasp" phase. Seasonal/regional theme parks have no business trying to compete with Disney/Uni/or even Busch on a "theme" playing field. You can't overbuild the "theme" around a mediocre attraction (like Paramount did using Kings Island's Tomb Raider for example). The best ROI for the seasonal/regional theme park is to put the value in the quality of the attraction and then the remaining amount on the theme. Banshee last summer at KI was a great example of this. Great ride with just a pinch of theme to sell the attraction. I think Ouimet is doing a fantastic job thus far. I'm really excited to see what is coming down the road from him.

You could even apply the argument above towards some of Disney's efforts in the last decade where the spend of attraction/theme balance could've been better leveraged - case in point Expedition Everest. Great multi-layered themeing, applied to a very mediocre roller coaster. Strip away the theme, and EE wouldn't be much of an attraction. I'm not even factoring in the overspend on the underperforming and even when working, under utilized Yeti AA.

Of course if you want to talk about overspend in the wrong areas, we can always discuss the E ticket show building around the C+/D ticket Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure at MK. I'm fine with what the ride is (and will be with the upcoming refurb) as the MK needs many more attractions like it; but, you could argue that some of the funds for the elaborate queue and show building would've been better spent elsewhere.
 
bhg469

bhg469

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Six Flags has had a rather signifigant impact on Disney over the years. FastPass/+ and under building rides, really the whole current business model that Pressler introduced and is still used at Disneyland Resort and Walt Disney World, is Disney trying to get a handle on single price admission, a concept pioneered by Six Flags.
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I remember someone posting a video of a suspended dark ride with coaster elements on here. It was by far the most impressive dark ride I have ever seen and it was in Europe. If either camp would build something like that I'd be impressed.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Cesar R M said:
I dont know about you, but I loved Maximus in tangled.
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I agree Maximus and the Bug in WALL-E were the two BEST sidekicks from WDAS precisely because they were NOT annoying.

I really liked Tangled the movie as Rapunzel was a strong character not a useless 'save me' character, Tangled deserved more than a themed bathroom IMHO.

Where I was coming from is I see the new Star Wars to have a plot derived from recent WDAS releases with Star Wars set dressing. Not the 'Seven Samurai' fighting to restore freedom in the face of an oppressive totalitarian government with faux democratic flourishes as the previous Star Wars releases.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Cesar R M said:
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the saddest part is, like religion and politics. The more you show real hard facts to these people, the more they reject the real thing. Its like they cling further to the incorrect choice.
I sometimes wonder the logic failure in some human beings.
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Read the book 'The True Believer' by Hoffer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer for a really GOOD analysis of this behavior it was written in 1951 and is just as relevant today.
 
lebeau

lebeau

Well-Known Member
WildcatDen said:
King's Island Season Pass Holder here (over 12 years). And while Cedar Fair cannot really compare to Disney in many areas, Disney can definitely not compare to Cedar Fair in others.
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Fellow KI season pass holder. I don't understand why everyone within driving distance of Mason doesn't have a pass. A KI season pass gives you more bang for your buck than anything you will currently find in Orlando. It may not be the best park in the world. But it's an incredible deal.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
fosse76 said:
I have to respond, since this is the second time I've seen you make this reference. The problem I have with the above statement is its implication that Six Flags does not invest in its parks, which is far from true. Six Flags adds a significant number of rides to its properties every year or two. This year for instance will a large number of installations as well. However, as we all know, Six Flags isn't really into a themeing, which for Disney and Universal is the bulk of the cost for each attraction. And that's not to say that rides that Six Flags builds are of less quality or less safe. Six Flags is more about thrills (and these days, massive product placement in the parks). If the thrill factor is there, no one will care about the theme.
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The point here is TWDC P&R is investing LESS in it's business than Six Flags which is known historically for its relatively low capital expenditures. Six Flags is about THRILLS and attracts a different demographic and it's level of CAPEX is appropriate for it's business model, However Six Flags has picked up some ex-Disney people and they are now increasing CAPEX to capture some of the Disney demographic.

The takeaway here is Disney USED to be known for cutting edge themed entertainment which requires a higher level of CAPEX (15-25%) to successfully execute, Now Disney has decided to simply milk Eisner P&R investment and TWDC's CAPEX has now fallen BELOW the level needed to simply maintain the property at a stable level and the P&R plant and equipment is now depreciating faster than it's being upgraded/replaced.
 

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