A Spirited Perfect Ten

[WildcatDen]

Regarding the visuals; it is the one thing about this project that I have no doubt will simply amaze.

One could say the visuals are ALL they got right in NFL. I have HIGH HOPES for AVLAND.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I was under the impression that would be using the basic ride system from Aquatopia, not Huny Hunt. Am I mistaken?

They're both trackless rides.

 

[NobodyElse]

They're both trackless rides.

A real expert will need to share their knowledge, but I thought Aquatopia used a floor-embedded wire guidance system, while Hunny Hunt used some sort of (RF?) local positioning system. While they both appear "trackless" I wouldn't consider them the same. (I'm done nit-picking for now.)

 

[bhg469]

A real expert will need to share their knowledge, but I thought Aquatopia used a floor-embedded wire guidance system, while Hunny Hunt used some sort of (RF?) local positioning system. While they both appear "trackless" I wouldn't consider them the same. (I'm done nit-picking for now.)

I'd also consider track less anything would be a waste of it wasn't utilized for different guest experience every few rides. Track less rides have been very underutilized in this country.

 

[BrianLo]

What is all of this going to cost us?

Stuff is coming. Big stuff. Little stuff. Stuff most of us have the potential to get excited about. Stuff some of us don't want and actually is a net negative. Stuff that will open soon. Stuff that will take a long while.

So, what is all of this going to cost us?

There are many ways they will extract the 'cost' from us.

Higher admission prices (possibly 'gouge' prices that only maintain the current high prices in the dregs of the off-season (Jan & Sept) and put price increases on steroids for the rest of the year). Higher prices for merch & food & lodging.

But they can also extract a 'cost' from us by cutting back in other areas. Maintenance. Cleanliness. Comfort (lack of adequate AC in many locations that aren't stores). Squeezing the CM's further, lowering their morale and potentially providing 'reduced' service. Using MM(-) to Ration Magic. Further 'festivalizing' Epcot to bring in more drunks to more times of the year. Trading down in street entertainment. Trading down in food quality, deleting high end food items due to DDP. 'Seasonalizing' attractions, monorail, etc. Lower quality merchandise.

But much of what we talk about in this thread is about $DIS as a whole. ESPN and it's outsized piece of the revenue pie and threat of cord cutting. Star Wars and the gigantic expectations it has. The Shanghai Shenanigans. (And one I don't think has been mentioned here yet, Chris Bermans harassment settlement - @PhotoDave219 has said there's a lot more of that in Bristol). Things that, great or small, can or have had an effect on the stock price. And being a company where the Street demands growth, growth, and more growth - where does that growth come from if ESPN brings less & SW 'misses earnings' (those who follow The Street know breaking records can mean little if you miss estimates - it can be said when SW7 leaves theatres if it doesn't make Avatar money it will 'miss earnings').

Again, what will the above cost us as parkgoers?

If it's good, nothing. This is everything wrong with the way WDW has been run in recent years. This is the executive mentality that has a hard ceiling that WDW was/is fast approaching.

With proper investment - attendance rises, hotel occupancy goes up, guest spending rates in park are driven by new unique merch or dining opportunities. A proper investment pays for itself.

If you invest properly guests will come and spend accordingly, without the need to nickel and dime by raising prices across the board.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Actually it was, It had several show scenes and a track 4x as long as the current track @marni1971 has the concept art for the original 7DMT.

Concept art presented for consideration does not a finished plan make. I'm sure there were others that were even smaller then what we ended up with. Don't confuse concept with what they actually decided to go with. One is not connected to the other, other then in an idea laid out for consideration.

 

[Stitchon]

Just thought I'd post here as I'm sure everyone like some shanghai chatter.

I'm here at the moment. Anyone visiting - take the Maglev - it come past the resort at 300km per hour. Roaring rapids is huge! Looks great. Castle still bulky, but better in person!

Uniqlo Magic For All is really well done and great service.

World's 'largest' disney store isn't world's largest - times sq has way more space... I'd say even Oxford St in London has more retail sq footage - they obviously include the outside gardens in their figures... but makes me wonder all this big up talk we get about disneyland... is it just spin?!

Service was terrible at the Disney store... everyone you try to take a photo a cast member jumps in front of you... then a security guard came over and quite rudely told me 'no photos'. Definitely not disney - distinctly chinese!

If I remember correctly, the Disney Store in Shanghai is only 10,000 square feet of retail space. 10,000 square feet isn't even the San Francisco store, let alone the "world's largest." Dumb spin indeed.

 

[ford91exploder]

Well it looks like Drunkytown Spring Edition i

Concept art presented for consideration does not a finished plan make. I'm sure there were others that were even smaller then what we ended up with. Don't confuse concept with what they actually decided to go with. One is not connected to the other, other then in an idea laid out for consideration.

And attitudes like that ENABLE Disney to continue doing it's relentless cutting back of the experience.

 

[ford91exploder]

If it's good, nothing. This is everything wrong with the way WDW has been run in recent years. This is the executive mentality that has a hard ceiling that WDW was/is fast approaching.

With proper investment - attendance rises, hotel occupancy goes up, guest spending rates in park are driven by new unique merch or dining opportunities. A proper investment pays for itself.

If you invest properly guests will come and spend accordingly, without the need to nickel and dime by raising prices across the board.

TPWMNBN has proven this over and over again yet Disney thinks they can cut their way to greatness.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Concept art presented for consideration does not a finished plan make. I'm sure there were others that were even smaller then what we ended up with. Don't confuse concept with what they actually decided to go with. One is not connected to the other, other then in an idea laid out for consideration.

You seriously have no grasp of the design process. Art is produced well past Blue Sky and Concept Development. The different layouts were not just dreamed up out of nothing by painters.

 

[ford91exploder]

You seriously have no grasp of the design process. Art is produced well past Blue Sky and Concept Development. The different layouts were not just dreamed up out of nothing by painters.

each of those had a full BOM and Budget attached, WDW chose the least ambitious and cut that one back.

EDIT @lazyboy97o correctly points out that WDW management changed the scope of the 7DMT project to make it cheaper.

 

[Goofyernmost]

And attitudes like that ENABLE Disney to continue doing it's relentless cutting back of the experience.

What attitude? Does your attitude affect any change at all. No! It does not. I have no control over it, you have no control over it, The Disney Company has complete and total control of it. It's their company. Whining and b itching and distorting reality will not create any change. I have stated about 10,000 times that the only way to get them to sway to your or anyone else's desires is to deprive them of income. That isn't happening and isn't likely to happen. Why? Because others do not see the evil that you and others are conjuring up to make yourselves seem righteously indignant.

You seriously have no grasp of the design process. Art is produced well past Blue Sky and Concept Development. The different layouts were not just dreamed up out of nothing by painters.

I have a total grasp on how decisions in these processes are made and the distortion of the process is seeming to be the perceived reality. Many design concepts are presented, but, only one is chosen. That means, in plain English, that the more extensive design was not chosen, possibly considered as an option, but not chosen. There might be a million reasons why it wasn't chosen, but, it wasn't just because they were too cheap to do it. It's possible, but, unless you were personally in on those meetings, which I doubt, it was never seriously considered. Just an option if that was what they wanted at the time. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better then what they did choose, but, it wasn't what they decided to use... so nothing was cut. It was never in place to be cut. It's like going to a car dealer and making your choice for the mid-range model instead of the top end. It doesn't mean that what you bought was not good quality, it was just not the best that you could have had. And, in this case, each imagineer assigned to develop a concept will make it bigger then it is likely to end up because then they get at least something that is worthy of building. Contrary to the doom and gloomers, the Mine Train is a nice ride, well themed and fits in it's location neatly. It may not be what you would like, but, it is fine considering it's purpose and location.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I have a total grasp on how decisions in these processes are made and the distortion of the process is seeming to be the perceived reality. Many design concepts are presented, but, only one is chosen. That means, in plain English, that the more extensive design was not chosen, possibly considered as an option, but not chosen. There might be a million reasons why it wasn't chosen, but, it wasn't just because they were too cheap to do it. It's possible, but, unless you were personally in on those meetings, which I doubt, it was never seriously considered. Just an option if that was what they wanted at the time. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better then what they did choose, but, it wasn't what they decided to use... so nothing was cut. It was never in place to be cut. It's like going to a car dealer and making your choice for the mid-range model instead of the top end. It doesn't mean that what you bought was not good quality, it was just not the best that you could have had. And, in this case, each imagineer assigned to develop a concept will make it bigger then it is likely to end up because then they get at least something that is worthy of building. Contrary to the doom and gloomers, the Mine Train is a nice ride, well themed and fits in it's location neatly. It may not be what you would like, but, it is fine considering it's purpose and location.

And this is just more proof of your ignorance. There was no decision between the three different track lengths. It wasn't a choice. The project changed scope.

each of those had a full BOM and Budget attached, WDW chose the least ambitious and cut that one back.

The project changed in Shanghai too.

 

[ford91exploder]

And this is just more proof of your ignorance. There was no decision between the three different track lengths. It wasn't a choice. The project changed scope.


The project changed in Shanghai too.

Yes it did and as I recall the CCP threw a hissy fit and held Disney's feet to the fire to build what was ORIGINALLY pitched not the 'value engineered' version

 

[Cesar R M]

If it's good, nothing. This is everything wrong with the way WDW has been run in recent years. This is the executive mentality that has a hard ceiling that WDW was/is fast approaching.

With proper investment - attendance rises, hotel occupancy goes up, guest spending rates in park are driven by new unique merch or dining opportunities. A proper investment pays for itself.

If you invest properly guests will come and spend accordingly, without the need to nickel and dime by raising prices across the board.

the problem is, WDW management knows that they attract a huge bulk of "one timers" from countries from LatinAmerica o.. let's say.. UK.
They never seen WDW on its top form, so for the management its easy to cut and cut and cut more.. because they will be coming.. as they (the new one timers) will not have a comparative of the degradation the parks suffered.

 

[Cesar R M]

Concept art presented for consideration does not a finished plan make. I'm sure there were others that were even smaller then what we ended up with. Don't confuse concept with what they actually decided to go with. One is not connected to the other, other then in an idea laid out for consideration.

its not "concept art". Its was proposed plans.
Pretty sure that @Lee or @marni1971 can confirm.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes it did and as I recall the CCP threw a hissy fit and held Disney's feet to the fire to build what was ORIGINALLY pitched not the 'value engineered' version

The same thing ride layout is clearly visible in aerial photos.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

its not "concept art". Its was proposed plans.
Pretty sure that @Lee or @marni1971 can confirm.

They can and did, though i'll link to the topic where they already did to save them the trouble-
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/original-seven-dwarfs-mine-train.891720/

Lee and Martin both confirmed the longer layouts were legit plans and intended to be constructed, not concept. Goofyernmost promptly ignored their words in that topic and has continued to argue that the longer layout were never anything more than concept.

 

[marni1971]

its not "concept art". Its was proposed plans.
Pretty sure that @Lee or @marni1971 can confirm.

Not again....

There were engineering drawings. Not cartoon art.

 

[Goofyernmost]

its not "concept art". Its was proposed plans.
Pretty sure that @Lee or @marni1971 can confirm.

The key word in that is "proposed" plans. They have many, not just one. The artwork seen is the concept art used to illustrate the individual proposed plan. It isn't a final plan or even necessarily close to being one. It is one of many to compare and decide on. It quite possibly was never even considered, as is, but, was just designed by someone on the team that was assigned to the project.

Nothing that big is ever decided based on only one plan. That is the point I am trying to make. All have been saying that they cut that plan in favor of a cheaper design. That may or may not be true, but, it wasn't approved and then cut later. It never really saw the light of day. Of that I think common sense and knowledge of decision making could indeed logically make clear. Theoretically, it might be said that there was a plan presented that was a ride bigger then MK itself. They didn't cut it, they just didn't use it. Big difference.