A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Phil12]

Dude, there's hardly anything "balanced" about your trash-talk of Walt. Now the trouble with that kind of guff is that it has a tendency to spread, and an untruth becomes a truth. Because of stuff like that, we've got a whole generation of kids who absolutely believe that Walt Disney was a Jew-hating anti-Semite, even though there isn't a speck of truth in it. It's been debunked over and over. In fact, when the producers of the recent Walt Disney biography on PBS held a press conference about it and were asked about the anti-Semitism rumor, the producers said that the rumor wasn't even going to be mentioned in the biography because they couldn't find any evidence that Walt was any such thing. Even Neal Gabler, the Disney biographer who Diane Disney Miller despised, admitted that he couldn't find anything credible to prop up the anti-Semite stuff.

But that rumor is still going to persist. It will never go away, thanks it being spread around by people due to ignorance or spite or a lame attempt at humor (looking at you, Seth McFarlane). That's why your gross mischaracterization of Walt's business dealings is harmful, and why I'm replying to you again about it. I've read a lot about Walt, flattering and unflattering, but nowhere have I read that he was a greedy lying con-man, as you describe him. And by the way, I don't deify Walt. As I've gotten older, I've lost a lot of heroes; my most recent loss was Bill Cosby. Walt has remained my hero because, in spite of the fact that he was flawed and human, he was, overall and in spite of everything he went through, a good and decent man. Unlike what you say about him, and that anti-Semite rumor, there is plenty of evidence for that.

I haven't spread any rumors about Walt Disney. The information I've provided about Walt Disney is substantiated by documented fact from irrefutable sources. You, like many others, are a victim of the studio publicity machine. Lot's of books have been written about Walt and the majority of them are inaccurate. But people tend to believe those things about Walt that coincide with their preexisting ideas. And those ideas are solidly rooted in the information provided by the studio public relations department. Even Walt realized he wasn't the "Walt Disney" that the studio had created. I understand that for those who idolize Walt Disney the truth about his hard driven and unethical business practices seem like demonization.

Most Disney fans are familiar with the story of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. And the story, as told by Walt Disney, is very different from the original tale told by the Brothers Grimm.

In the Brothers Grimm story the Evil Queen eats what she believes to be the lungs and liver of Snow White. Also the Evil Queen is forced to dance to her death in red-hot iron shoes.

But Walt Disney did us the favor to make the story more palatable as he did with most other stories that he adapted to the screen.

And Walt Disney did the same thing with his life story. After all a squeaky clean Walt Disney with complete veracity was important to the continued success of the studio, Disneyland and his future project EPCOT.

People often say that when they visit the Disney parks, it feels as if they're in another world. So I don't think it's too unusual for people to ignore Walt's unscrupulous side when they think about Walt Disney in an historical context.

 

[NearTheEars]

I haven't spread any rumors about Walt Disney. The information I've provided about Walt Disney is substantiated by documented fact from irrefutable sources. You, like many others, are a victim of the studio publicity machine. Lot's of books have been written about Walt and the majority of them are inaccurate. But people tend to believe those things about Walt that coincide with their preexisting ideas. And those ideas are solidly rooted in the information provided by the studio public relations department. Even Walt realized he wasn't the "Walt Disney" that the studio had created. I understand that for those who idolize Walt Disney the truth about his hard driven and unethical business practices seem like demonization.

Most Disney fans are familiar with the story of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. And the story, as told by Walt Disney, is very different from the original tale told by the Brothers Grimm.

In the Brothers Grimm story the Evil Queen eats what she believes to be the lungs and liver of Snow White. Also the Evil Queen is forced to dance to her death in red-hot iron shoes.

But Walt Disney did us the favor to make the story more palatable as he did with most other stories that he adapted to the screen.

And Walt Disney did the same thing with his life story. After all a squeaky clean Walt Disney with complete veracity was important to the continued success of the studio, Disneyland and his future project EPCOT.

People often say that when they visit the Disney parks, it feels as if they're in another world. So I don't think it's too unusual for people to ignore Walt's unscrupulous side when they think about Walt Disney in an historical context.

Can you point us to some of your sources to better help us understand your point of view. Nearly every thing publicly out there on Walt point to a mixed figure, of good and bad. As you've said, all of those sources are incorrect, and he was in reality just a dishonest, unethical man.

Just want to make sure we're all on the same page. I'd also be interested in forwarding that material to the folks at PBS, who when I attended a screening with a producer and managing director, were pretty adamant that they dug deep on Walt. But the doc didn't paint nearly as negative of a picture.

Wondering how they missed the information you were privy to.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don't understand why this thread is still a thing... The guy that puts information in this thread hasn't posted anything in close to three months.

 

[Andrew C]

Can you point us to some of your sources to better help us understand your point of view. Nearly every thing publicly out there on Walt point to a mixed figure, of good and bad. As you've said, all of those sources are incorrect, and he was in reality just a dishonest, unethical man.

Just want to make sure we're all on the same page. I'd also be interested in forwarding that material to the folks at PBS, who when I attended a screening with a producer and managing director, were pretty adamant that they dug deep on Walt. But the doc didn't paint nearly as negative of a picture.

Wondering how they missed the information you were privy to.

You'll get a lot of opinion.

 

[NearTheEars]

I don't understand why this thread is still a thing... The guy that puts information in this thread hasn't posted anything in close to three months.

But, he's here in Spirit ...

I actually think he might find this latest convo interesting, considering he called the PBS doc a "hit job" on Walt. I'd be interested to see what he thinks of @Phil12's thoughts on Mr. Disney.

 

[Nubs70]

I don't understand why this thread is still a thing... The guy that puts information in this thread hasn't posted anything in close to three months.

Like Walt himself, WDW and Spirited© threads are institutions not reliant on one single person.

 

[AEfx]

you mean the same kind of poo that you throw at Eisner every opportunity you have?

No, actually. I don't go looking for things to dislike him over, you'll find my posts on him generally are countering someone with a terrible memory or those that pretend that the company was somehow pure and white until he left the building. I actually think (and post) very little about him, except when it's already relevant to the conversation.

If I was like the Darth Iger crowd and started bringing him up as the devil himself every time someone broke wind at Disney, then you'd have a valid point.

 

[AEfx]

I don't understand why this thread is still a thing... The guy that puts information in this thread hasn't posted anything in close to three months.

And to be fair, while some people seem to selectively remember events (even when one can go back and read it all to see how things have gone down) the majority of information actually comes from other folks (particularly about Star Wars) and the information that is "unique" turns into dust when examined (China).

But it's easy to see why this thread is "still a thing" - it's simply because it's a catch-all thread that isn't topic moderated to much of an extent, and a lot of us are busy and don't have time to go to multiple forums and read things in scattered places. Basically, if it's interesting, it's likely going to make it's way here. But it really would be the same effect if Steve put up a thread that said "Catch-all Disney/Entertainment Business." It has little to do with the OP as evidenced by the fact it still goes just as fast with or without his presence.

 

[Phil12]

Can you point us to some of your sources to better help us understand your point of view. Nearly every thing publicly out there on Walt point to a mixed figure, of good and bad. As you've said, all of those sources are incorrect, and he was in reality just a dishonest, unethical man.

Just want to make sure we're all on the same page. I'd also be interested in forwarding that material to the folks at PBS, who when I attended a screening with a producer and managing director, were pretty adamant that they dug deep on Walt. But the doc didn't paint nearly as negative of a picture.

Wondering how they missed the information you were privy to.

Have you not been tracking this thread every minute of the day? These links should help get you up to speed:

http://www.joshuakennon.com/wed-enterprises-inc-the-private-family-holding-company-of-walt-disney/

http://babbittblog.com/2013/12/08/disney-fires-babbitt-how-many-times/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland,_Inc.

http://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/melancon-v-superior-court-26581

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19937394F3d735_1627/WALT

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Retlaw_Enterprises

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/2d/127/213.html

http://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1259&context=carter_opinions

We know that the Melancon settlement was in favor of Melancon but as a stipulation of the award received by the plaintiff, he was sworn to secrecy about the outcome. TWDC has no interest in revealing the details of the case either, and the case is not subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). All we know for sure is that Melancon prevailed in that he accused Walt Disney of not paying the public company share dividend by diverting funds from the studio to WED Enterprises.

We encounter the same stonewall with the studio buyout of WED Enterprises since that was a private transaction. However, due to later tax litigation in federal court concerning RETLAW we have documentation of assets that confirm and can be cross referenced with the holding company stock certificates.

We know that Walt was running a private business within the publicly owned business. But his private company (WED Enterprises) was created in secret and purposely hidden from the shareholders of the public company.

We know that Walt's legal team attempted to quash the Melancon lawsuit by asking the court to require the plaintiff to furnish $65,500 as security before allowing the lawsuit to proceed. When the court rejected that motion, the case was settled to avoid adverse publicity and to avoid other shareholders filing suit.

I'd like to know more details but, as I mentioned, none of this is subject to the FOIA and the Disney family members have never been willing to discuss these matters.

 

[Cesar R M]

I haven't spread any rumors about Walt Disney. The information I've provided about Walt Disney is substantiated by documented fact from irrefutable sources. You, like many others, are a victim of the studio publicity machine. Lot's of books have been written about Walt and the majority of them are inaccurate. But people tend to believe those things about Walt that coincide with their preexisting ideas. And those ideas are solidly rooted in the information provided by the studio public relations department. Even Walt realized he wasn't the "Walt Disney" that the studio had created. I understand that for those who idolize Walt Disney the truth about his hard driven and unethical business practices seem like demonization.

Most Disney fans are familiar with the story of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. And the story, as told by Walt Disney, is very different from the original tale told by the Brothers Grimm.

In the Brothers Grimm story the Evil Queen eats what she believes to be the lungs and liver of Snow White. Also the Evil Queen is forced to dance to her death in red-hot iron shoes.

But Walt Disney did us the favor to make the story more palatable as he did with most other stories that he adapted to the screen.

And Walt Disney did the same thing with his life story. After all a squeaky clean Walt Disney with complete veracity was important to the continued success of the studio, Disneyland and his future project EPCOT.

People often say that when they visit the Disney parks, it feels as if they're in another world. So I don't think it's too unusual for people to ignore Walt's unscrupulous side when they think about Walt Disney in an historical context.

The Brothers Grimm are famous for taking many folk tales and transformed them into terror tragedies with no real happy ending.
Id say the grimm brothers were heavily misogynists, I mean.. the females on their story always suffer or die horribly.

 

[Cesar R M]

I don't understand why this thread is still a thing... The guy that puts information in this thread hasn't posted anything in close to three months.

he's probably munching popcorn amused as he sees how his thread churns stuff like this.

 

[Phil12]

The Brothers Grimm are famous for taking many folk tales and transformed them into terror tragedies with no real happy ending.
Id say the grimm brothers were heavily misogynists, I mean.. the females on their story always suffer or die horribly.

In the 19th century the kids didn't have smart phones so they needed something to catch and keep their attention.

 

[Cesar R M]

And to be fair, while some people seem to selectively remember events (even when one can go back and read it all to see how things have gone down) the majority of information actually comes from other folks (particularly about Star Wars) and the information that is "unique" turns into dust when examined (China).

But it's easy to see why this thread is "still a thing" - it's simply because it's a catch-all thread that isn't topic moderated to much of an extent, and a lot of us are busy and don't have time to go to multiple forums and read things in scattered places. Basically, if it's interesting, it's likely going to make it's way here. But it really would be the same effect if Steve put up a thread that said "Catch-all Disney/Entertainment Business." It has little to do with the OP as evidenced by the fact it still goes just as fast with or without his presence.

technically he was right on many things. But he had a row of paranoia-like stuff about Iger (the Zenia case) and tried to make a huge conspiracy out of it.

 

[Cesar R M]

Would certainly be better then the half-hearted attempt at starting Narnia and giving up after only two movies (Dawn Treader was at Fox)

I find this funny.. because other groups keeps trying to make other franchises a thing..despite the constant failing ( like the punisher series or Dredd)

 

[Phil12]

technically he was right on many things. But he had a row of paranoia-like stuff about Iger (the Zenia case) and tried to make a huge conspiracy out of it.

Let's not forget the Willow Bay conspiracy or the Disney has taken control of my computer conspiracy. Good times!

 

[BrianLo]

Like Walt himself, WDW and Spirited© threads are institutions not reliant on one single person.

And with enough time and no oversight they are full of maggots and cockroaches, fighting over morsels (or in this case someone else's platform to proselytize from).

Someone already mentioned the thread survives in Spirits absence. Thrives on the other hand?

 

[suburbianj]

Talked about this with the spirit way near beginning of this thread,this new huge theme park has got planning permission,and now has the funding from china to build it....ignore the bits in report about waste heat plants etc lol
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34575039
no matter what anyone says,this will be a HUGE threat to Disneyland Paris when it opens,unlike all the other paramount parks in planning stages like in Murcia Spain,this has got the go ahead on all fronts,$4.8 billion will build a substantially huge park with all the infrastructure attached and I for one cant wait for this to open!More info about the park in link below too:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramount_London#

 

[NearTheEars]

Have you not been tracking this thread every minute of the day? These links should help get you up to speed:

http://www.joshuakennon.com/wed-enterprises-inc-the-private-family-holding-company-of-walt-disney/

http://babbittblog.com/2013/12/08/disney-fires-babbitt-how-many-times/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland,_Inc.

http://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/melancon-v-superior-court-26581

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19937394F3d735_1627/WALT

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Retlaw_Enterprises

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/2d/127/213.html

http://digitalcommons.law.ggu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1259&context=carter_opinions

We know that the Melancon settlement was in favor of Melancon but as a stipulation of the award received by the plaintiff, he was sworn to secrecy about the outcome. TWDC has no interest in revealing the details of the case either, and the case is not subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). All we know for sure is that Melancon prevailed in that he accused Walt Disney of not paying the public company share dividend by diverting funds from the studio to WED Enterprises.

We encounter the same stonewall with the studio buyout of WED Enterprises since that was a private transaction. However, due to later tax litigation in federal court concerning RETLAW we have documentation of assets that confirm and can be cross referenced with the holding company stock certificates.

We know that Walt was running a private business within the publicly owned business. But his private company (WED Enterprises) was created in secret and purposely hidden from the shareholders of the public company.

We know that Walt's legal team attempted to quash the Melancon lawsuit by asking the court to require the plaintiff to furnish $65,500 as security before allowing the lawsuit to proceed. When the court rejected that motion, the case was settled to avoid adverse publicity and to avoid other shareholders filing suit.

I'd like to know more details but, as I mentioned, none of this is subject to the FOIA and the Disney family members have never been willing to discuss these matters.

Thanks Phil it will take a bit to go through.

 

[Lee]

Let's not forget the Willow Bay conspiracy or the Disney has taken control of my computer conspiracy. Good times!

And yet...at least one of those was 100% legit.
One. Hundred. Percent.

 

[Rteetz]

Disneyland started testing electronic FP scanners today