A Spirited Perfect Ten

[bakntime]

I don't know if your historical numbers are correct, you are also looking at best case scenario vs standard rate. I've seen the discussion play out on value of yesteryear vs today a couple times now. If @ParentsOf4 drops by they might drop the graphs on you with some other numbers.

The only historical number I used is the $180 for a 5 day ticket in 1995, which is taken from here: http://allears.net/tix/tickethistory.htm
The cheapest 5 day pass of any kind on there from 95 was right around $180. A 5 day hopper was $205 by the end of '97, or $305 adjusted for inflation.

I suppose you could talk about how in if you were staying more than 5 days you'd just get an annual passport, which was $229+tax at the end of 95, or approx $352 after inflation. (Premium AP was $319 = $500 today)

The rest of the numbers are straight from the WDW site for "today's" prices.

I recently booked a 14 day stay for September: 2 people, with free dining, and 10 day hoppers, @ Pop Century for $2700.

Inflation calculator is here: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl


My point is that prices haven't skyrocketed like it might seem. They're higher, for sure, but not 2x or 3x as much as some would make it sound.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Walt DIsney Hometown Museum in Marceline is now raising funds for reconstructing the Midget Autopia next door. Midget Autopia, which was displaced from Disneyland by Small World, was donated to a local park by Walt and Roy in 1966, and ran for about 11 years there.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/midgetautopia/bring-back-walt-disneys-midget-autopia-ride

 

[Cesar R M]

The only historical number I used is the $180 for a 5 day ticket in 1995, which is taken from here: http://allears.net/tix/tickethistory.htm
The cheapest 5 day pass of any kind on there from 95 was right around $180. A 5 day hopper was $205 by the end of '97, or $305 adjusted for inflation.

I suppose you could talk about how in if you were staying more than 5 days you'd just get an annual passport, which was $229+tax at the end of 95, or approx $352 after inflation. (Premium AP was $319 = $500 today)

The rest of the numbers are straight from the WDW site for "today's" prices.

I recently booked a 14 day stay for September: 2 people, with free dining, and 10 day hoppers, @ Pop Century for $2700.

Inflation calculator is here: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl


My point is that prices haven't skyrocketed like it might seem. They're higher, for sure, but not 2x or 3x as much as some would make it sound.

you're taking the discounted model and not rake prices.
besides, you cant usually take big discounts in one thing and get another (example, no room discount if you get free dinning.. which I remember, was crippled even further)

 

[Figments Friend]

It's fun to speculate on the motivation behind the filming of this little clip.
Could it have been an elaborate field testing report sent back from Orlando to the people at Burbank calling the shots on the direction of the program that would eventually result in the Dreamfinder/Figment meet-and-greet character?

It certainly seems directed at either an internal corporate audience or one otherwise familiar with the business of creating guest-character interaction.

And you would be correct in guessing that.

At the time the clip was first shown during the D23 'EPCOT 30th Anniversay' Event, it was said to have been a 'screen test' for the two figures being considered for walkaround purposes.
It was a video clip meant to be shown to those working on the project as a bit of a follow up to what was learned in the field testing these in front of a audience.

They were both tested in front of children and their reaction was gauged, as well as opinions from those working on the project.
In the clip you can tell Mr. Holt is not overly thrilled with the pointed, 'devilish looking' Figment and preferred the rounded, more soft appearing version.
In his opinion, the flexible and smaller version was the way to go as it held more appeal and certainly better interactive animation capabilities.
The likely remote-controlled version was just too clunky to pass off as a character Guests could interact with.

It is a shame they did not film the remote-puppet actually MOVING.
It would have been better to judge it if viewers could have actually seen it operational.
The video clip actually gives the impression of being a little bias against it, as it's obvious the point is being made that the vinyl puppet is the preferred one to develop further.

I don't think either of these figures went anywhere near their eventual home in Orlando, FL until well after the designs were finalized.
The testing was likely done right in California where WED/WDI was working on the project.
By the time construction began on installing the Show Elements in the Original Attraction, Figment was already finalized and ready to go.
The alternative, likely remote controlled version of the Figment puppet shown in the video was discarded and never seen again, while the vinyl hand puppet went on to become a familiar sight to early EPCOT Center Guests.

 

[asianway]

It's sort of funny, though, because ticket prices aren't that much higher than they used to be.

A 5 day WDW pass currently costs $315 plus tax. In 1995, a 5 day pass was $180, which adjusted for inflation is $281 plus tax. Now consider that in 1995 there were less attractions than today (DHS's current situation not withstanding, the sum total is far more today), and one entire less theme park (AK). I'd say park ticket prices haven't really gone as crazy as it seems. I will also add that a 10 day ticket is only $50 more than a 5 day.

Depending on special offers, you can make it work. For example, when free dining is offered, you could book a 14 night stay at a value resort for a family of 4, including 10 day hopper tickets for everyone, for around $3400, including tax. In 1995 dollars, that's $2,100. I really don't think that you could have spent 14 days at WDW in 1995 without spending at least $2000 on a room, 10 days worth of park tickets, and all food for the entire stay. I'd even wager to say that a family of 4 might only get 7 to 10 days worth all inclusive with $2000 back in 1995.

I'm not really debating value here when comparing '95 and today, as that's a subjective debate and for my part, I'd rather not derail this thread by going down that road. So just speaking purely on the numbers, costs really haven't risen dramatically for a WDW vacation since the 90s.

Far more? Care to illustrate how you come up with that? There's less at the other 3 Parks which is offset of the addition of AK. Would love to see your analysis...

 

[rael ramone]

Darn I was planning on leaving the kids home.

I actually know someone who did just that.... (and no, the kids DID want to go to, but the step mother didn't want them there)...

 

[FigmentJedi]

http://www./2015/07/exclusive-preview-figment-comic-series-2-1-dreamfinder-heads-home-to-epcot/

Figment 2's looking beautiful.

 

[Rteetz]

http://www./2015/07/exclusive-preview-figment-comic-series-2-1-dreamfinder-heads-home-to-epcot/

Figment 2's looking beautiful.

If only Dreamfinder actually returned home

 

[ParentsOf4]

I don't know if your historical numbers are correct, you are also looking at best case scenario vs standard rate. I've seen the discussion play out on value of yesteryear vs today a couple times now. If @ParentsOf4 drops by they might drop the graphs on you with some other numbers.

I've posted plenty of graphs regarding WDW ticket prices but perhaps the most revealing is one that compares WDW ticket prices relative to Median Household Income, using an adjusted baseline value of "1" for both in 1971:

(Note the Y-axis does not have a units; it's simply looking at relative changes to WDW ticket prices and household income.)

What this graph reveals is 3 ticket price eras at WDW.

The first is what I call the Walt Disney Legacy Era when ticket prices were relatively inexpensive. Walt Disney always emphasized to his subordinates that the company needed to provide its Guests with "good value". This pricing philosophy remained in place until Eisner took charge. Some who recall the time from their youths might have thought WDW was expensive but, relative to income, WDW was never less expensive. (I tell people I was able to afford a WDW vacation even though I was a lifeguard making a few dimes above minimum wage.)

The second is the Michael Eisner Era when ticket prices quickly increased by roughly 50% compared to Median Household Income and then held relatively steady for 15 years. There was a strong opinion in the industry in the mid-1980s that Disney theme park tickets were underpriced, and so the competition was relieved when Eisner hiked prices, even if WDW fans were furious. (And I was one of them!)

The third is the Paul Pressler/Jay Rasulo Era when price increases began a steady climb faster than Median Household Income. This era is dominated by a more analytical approach to pricing. "What's the biggest price increase we can get away with?"

This is the era we are in today.

 

[jt04]

I've posted plenty of graphs regarding WDW ticket prices but perhaps the most revealing is one that compares WDW ticket prices relative to Median Household Income, using an adjusted baseline value of "1" for both in 1971:

View attachment 103926

(Note the Y-axis does not have a units; it's simply looking at relative changes to WDW ticket prices and household income.)

What this graph reveals is 3 ticket price eras at WDW.

The first is what I call the Walt Disney Legacy Era when ticket prices were relatively inexpensive. Walt Disney always emphasized to his subordinates that the company needed to provide its Guests with "good value". This pricing philosophy remained in place until Eisner took charge. Some who recall the time from their youths might have thought WDW was expensive but, relative to income, WDW was never less expensive. (I tell people I was able to afford a WDW vacation even though I was a lifeguard making a few dimes above minimum wage.)

The second is the Michael Eisner Era when ticket prices quickly increased by roughly 50% compared to Median Household Income and then held relatively steady for 15 years. There was a strong opinion in the industry in the mid-1980s that Disney theme park tickets were underpriced, and so the competition was relieved when Eisner hiked prices, even if WDW fans were furious. (And I was one of them!)

The third is the Paul Pressler/Jay Rasulo Era when price increases began a steady climb faster than Median Household Income. This era is dominated by a more analytical approach to pricing. "What's the biggest price increase we can get away with?"

This is the era we are in today.

Perhaps if we got back on the gold standard.......

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I've posted plenty of graphs regarding WDW ticket prices but perhaps the most revealing is one that compares WDW ticket prices relative to Median Household Income, using an adjusted baseline value of "1" for both in 1971:

View attachment 103926

(Note the Y-axis does not have a units; it's simply looking at relative changes to WDW ticket prices and household income.)

What this graph reveals is 3 ticket price eras at WDW.

The first is what I call the Walt Disney Legacy Era when ticket prices were relatively inexpensive. Walt Disney always emphasized to his subordinates that the company needed to provide its Guests with "good value". This pricing philosophy remained in place until Eisner took charge. Some who recall the time from their youths might have thought WDW was expensive but, relative to income, WDW was never less expensive. (I tell people I was able to afford a WDW vacation even though I was a lifeguard making a few dimes above minimum wage.)

The second is the Michael Eisner Era when ticket prices quickly increased by roughly 50% compared to Median Household Income and then held relatively steady for 15 years. There was a strong opinion in the industry in the mid-1980s that Disney theme park tickets were underpriced, and so the competition was relieved when Eisner hiked prices, even if WDW fans were furious. (And I was one of them!)

The third is the Paul Pressler/Jay Rasulo Era when price increases began a steady climb faster than Median Household Income. This era is dominated by a more analytical approach to pricing. "What's the biggest price increase we can get away with?"

This is the era we are in today.

Fascinating, thanks.

The graph shows, very roughly speaking, that Eisner increased prices 250%, from 0.8 to 1.9, vs Iger 25%, from 1.9 to 2.5. A ten times higher increase.

 

[Phil12]

Fascinating, thanks.

The graph shows, very roughly speaking, that Eisner increased prices 250%, from 0.8 to 1.9, vs Iger 25%, from 1.9 to 2.5. A ten times higher increase.

It also shows that steep ticket price increases have not deterred guests from visiting WDW in record numbers.

 

[Hakunamatata]

It also shows that steep ticket price increases have not deterred guests from visiting WDW in record numbers.

Yep which is why I wonder what if anything the comparison proves. If people have the money to go, ticket prices and median income are not relevant.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Fascinating, thanks.

The graph shows, very roughly speaking, that Eisner increased prices 250%, from 0.8 to 1.9, vs Iger 25%, from 1.9 to 2.5. A ten times higher increase.

You're comparing 21 versus 8 years of increases. (My chart ends in 2013.) Take away Eisner's first 4 years and Iger "wins" the battle of ticket price increases.

Instead, I suggest you think in terms of the "two Eisners" that are sometimes discussed on these threads.

First, there's the "good Eisner" of the 1980s and 1990s when major expansions were taking place even as prices were relatively stable after an initial explosion. (In terms of price increases, Eisner/Wells' first 4 years were the absolute worst ever.) However, as I've graphed before, Parks & Resorts (P&R) capex budgets were huge under this "good Eisner". Most of those ticket price increases were poured right back into the parks. The modern WDW exists because of Eisner.

Second, there's the overlapping "post-Wells Eisner" when quality cuts started to accelerate. It's somewhat misleading to link it to Wells' death in 1994 since these were underway before then but Eisner did seem to press down harder on the gas after Wells' death. However, many of these were behind the scenes and not obvious to Guests.

Beyond that, I propose there's a "third Eisner".

IMO, the true turning point was when Eisner made Paul Pressler head of P&R in 1998. That's when Eisner made the conscious decision to squeeze every penny he could out of P&R as Disney's other business segments struggled. That's when Eisner said, "to heck with the Guest".

Iger's reign is simply an extension of that "third Eisner".

But the times they are a changin' ...

 

[StageFrenzy]

Perhaps if we got back on the gold standard.......

 

[DisneyCane]

Did you create that chart or did you get it from somewhere? How do you get the baseline to be 1 and then end up with the 2.5? Does the math really work that 2013 Median Income/WDW ticket price is 2.5 times 1971 Median Income/WDW ticket price?

Assuming that is what the underlying data says, in order to draw conclusions about WDW pricing, you have to take into account other economic factors. The graph my be illustrating that in the 2000-2013 time frame, median household income was not increasing relative to inflation more than it illustrates ridiculous pricing by WDW. There's a good chance that you could generate a similar chart looking at median household income vs. the cost of a gallon of milk.

 

[truecoat]

Did you create that chart or did you get it from somewhere? How do you get the baseline to be 1 and then end up with the 2.5? Does the math really work that 2013 Median Income/WDW ticket price is 2.5 times 1971 Median Income/WDW ticket price?

Assuming that is what the underlying data says, in order to draw conclusions about WDW pricing, you have to take into account other economic factors. The graph my be illustrating that in the 2000-2013 time frame, median household income was not increasing relative to inflation more than it illustrates ridiculous pricing by WDW. There's a good chance that you could generate a similar chart looking at median household income vs. the cost of a gallon of milk.

Milk is not your answer. Between 1999 and 2009, the price of milk changed about 5% and for me hasn't changed since then.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Wow, not only did Disney crush the Tron fandom's hopes and dreams with the cancellation of Tron 3, they crushed the spirit of Tron himself.

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2015/07/31/bruce-boxleitner-says-hes-done-with-tron-franchise/

 

[DisneyGentleman]

Fascinating, thanks.

The graph shows, very roughly speaking, that Eisner increased prices 250%, from 0.8 to 1.9, vs Iger 25%, from 1.9 to 2.5. A ten times higher increase.

Great chart (and not to be picky as I do respect The Empress Lilly) but the Eisner increase from 1.1 to 1.6 is an increase of about 45%. That is, a 100% increase amounts to doubling the price. The Pressler/Rasulo increase amounts to slightly over 55%.

On the other hand, this amounts to re-baselining the increase, and that can be misleading too. In terms of price/take-home income, the Eisner increase was 50% of P/THI, and the Pressler/Rasulo increase has been about 90% of P/THI. Either way you cut it, I believe the current leadership has raised prices more.

 

[stevehousse]

Know someone who works for corp at Disney World, they apparently had a CM appreciation day, and got previews of new stuff for Avatar and got to go onsite, and she said it was incredible, and can't even believe what it looks like already, with construction not even half way done yet! Stunning she said!
I have hopes for this land, even it it isn't really the Disney norm...can't wait to see it for myself! I do only want to see the land at nighttime though, as I believe that will be a heavily populated area at night!