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A Spirited Perfect Ten

That crowding is not necessarily due to fully utilized capacity, but instead to years of operational decisions intended to increase crowding as a means of managing labor costs. Even the Magic Kingdom is lacking in attraction capacity compared to the other Disneylands. The last two theme parks were built to trick people into staying longer, but most definitely not intended to handle significant crowds. Their attraction rosters were cut down to the bare minimum in an effort to eek out metrics of daily satisfaction. While culture definitely pays a role, operational efficiency helps to make the Tokyo Disney Resort (which comes in at an average of 15 million/park that is more reliable due to very limited park hopping) far easier to handle than any of the Walt Disney World parks.

Given the ridiculous ways Disney's costs have increased, a fifth gate would also have to be in the realm of $5 billion if it is not to be another exercise in duplicity. That is a serious amount of money, even for Disney, with a lot of that going to the required support infrastructure that Disney continues to neglect and understaff.

Despite all of this talk of crowds, the long-promised end to discounting has yet to arrive. If capacity is being pushed to the brink there should be no need for discounting.
I'd love to see the big discounts and the " free dining plan " come to an end. I believe people book trips planning on these discounts will roll around and they can upgrade their trip. It would be interesting if they try it for a quarter.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
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I'd love to see the big discounts and the " free dining plan " come to an end. I believe people book trips planning on these discounts will roll around and they can upgrade their trip. It would be interesting if they try it for a quarter.
It is interesting that even if delayed in announcing, Free Dining seems to be somewhat sacred.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
Looks good. On DinoLand I say replace DinoRama with Good Dinosaur AND put in a Walking with Dinosaurs show (Nemo moved to Studios because I like it). Win-win :)
Watching that trailer today...wow...anyone else feel Consumer Products pop a woody? This will be DCP's biggest Pixar push since Cars. I'm surprised Dino Rama hasn't already been re-Themed.

Hopefully the movie will be good.
 

lobelia

Well-Known Member
So @ParentsOf4 you maintain WDW needs a fifth gate. I have tried to stay with my gut that they should evolve the other four to complete parks with additional capacity but your numbers are persuasive. I get why you suggest a park to serve higher numbers of crowds but adding another park just for parades and fireworks also seems incomplete. What do you suggest could thematically support another park that Visitors would be willing to pay comparable entrance fees to the current four parks?
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
I'm not much of an armchair Imagineer but I believe the Magic Kingdom should get out of the parade and nighttime show business, and that a 5th theme park should be designed specifically to handle large crowds for parades and nighttime fireworks.

Purists will hate it but, operationally, I believe it's the direction the Magic Kingdom has to go.
MK becomes the boutique, appointment only park? It feels the direction they need to go without creating three full time main streets.
 
So @ParentsOf4 you maintain WDW needs a fifth gate. I have tried to stay with my gut that they should evolve the other four to complete parks with additional capacity but your numbers are persuasive. I get why you suggest a park to serve higher numbers of crowds but adding another park just for parades and fireworks also seems incomplete. What do you suggest could thematically support another park that Visitors would be willing to pay comparable entrance fees to the current four parks?
I wouldn't mind seeing some of the cool stuff that's been built overseas - Mysterious Island with Jules Verne, the new pirates ride at the new park being built and so on if there is a 5th gate. But they need to have the current four parks reach their full potential. EPCOT has so much potential as most everyone here knows. The D23 will give us an idea. Thanks to @PhotoDave219 @WDW1974 @doctornick and many others for giving us information and trying to keep us on topic.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
It may have been a 10 in the middle of the day. I was there after dinner for 3 hours and rode my 3 FP and 3 other rides: Pooh, Small World and Mermaid. I just wanted to understand any potential flaws in the comparison of a crowd ranking and cast blockouts. Especially if its ranked the highest crowd but E ticket rides still had FP available at 3pm.
This. ToT was posted at 50 this evening--friends were on in less than 10. Touring Plan numbers are interesting, and offer good guidelines on what time of year to visit, but fall somewhere between TEA numbers and actual, hard data.
 
This. ToT was posted at 50 this evening--friends were on in less than 10. Touring Plan numbers are interesting, and offer good guidelines on what time of year to visit, but fall somewhere between TEA numbers and actual, hard data.
Yeah and unfortunately this is the only dataset I've got available.

The fact that cast members can artificially manipulate it simply by holding a flik card annoys the hell out of me.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
Can't help but think the crowds in O-Town are not what they may appear to be as we head into what is the middle of summer form much of the Northern Hemisphere, but already back to school season in the SE USA.
It's every bit as anecdotal as wait times and hotel discounts, but the only "busy" week on I-4 and at my local tourist Publix was the week after Fourth of July. After a decade you get a feel for these things, it just doesn't feel busy this Summer.
 
It's every bit as anecdotal as wait times and hotel discounts, but the only "busy" week on I-4 and at my local tourist Publix was the week after Fourth of July. After a decade you get a feel for these things, it just doesn't feel busy this Summer.
I trust the anecdotal evidence more. And yeah, that week was a Sshow from what I could see numbers wise.
 
I'm not much of an armchair Imagineer but I believe the Magic Kingdom should get out of the parade and nighttime show business, and that a 5th theme park should be designed specifically to handle large crowds for parades and nighttime fireworks.

Purists will hate it but, operationally, I believe it's the direction the Magic Kingdom has to go.
The thing that gets me is that the Magic Kingdom isn't actually Disney's best park. It is simply the quintessential park of Walt Disney World, the resort with the largest base of visitors. I wonder what crowds would be like across the parks if you plopped Disneyland down on the property, with all of its exciting and classic attractions. Or Shanghai Disney, with all of it's amazing new experiences and technology. Obviously you never would because the Magic Kingdom follows the same model as those two parks, but wouldn't people be tempted to visit parks of that quality?

What is it that draws everyone to Magic Kingdom above all others? Is it the reputation that Walt Disney World is the best, and that park is (by popular vote) the best of the four there? Is it the classic attractions? The iconic nature of the park? Is it really impossible to design something in this day and age that could in some way overtake that legacy? Is the Magic Kingdom simply the best that can be done? It's sort of crazy to think that The Magic Kingdom simply holds the position of crown jewel of Walt Disney World uncontested - that there's just no way for a new idea for a new park to balance it out. It's an imperfect perfect storm. The park could be better, yet nothing can best it.

It makes me wonder what sort of park concept you would have to develop to get the MK to share the spotlight. EPCOT Center probably came closest in sheer ambition, and opened with a solid execution that has since been waning-- Animal Kingdom and Disney MGM Studios follow it somewhat distantly on both fronts. We'll have to see what comes of Hollywood Studios as it undergoes its transformation, but I'd be very surprised to see whatever they're developing shift that park into MK's high gear. It should certainly be and do much better by a huge margin, but it seems that MK will "just" always be top dog.

It's interesting to think; what would a fifth park have to do, have to be, to truly compete with The Magic Kingdom?
 

wogwog

Well-Known Member
Yeah and unfortunately this is the only dataset I've got available.

The fact that cast members can artificially manipulate it simply by holding a flik card annoys the hell out of me.
Then you won't like this either. If you do not already know, management or a coordinator (supervisor) can have the wait time adjusted with a phone call to any wait time they want to post. GSM acquaintances tell me this. I don't know why and don't ask because I avoid the WDW parks anytime they look to be crowded. So yeah, that leaves 2 or 3 days a year for me to visit MK. ;)
 
Then you won't like this either. If you do not already know, management or a coordinator (supervisor) can have the wait time adjusted with a phone call to any wait time they want to post. GSM acquaintances tell me this. I don't know why and don't ask because I avoid the WDW parks anytime they look to be crowded. So yeah, that leaves 2 or 3 days a year for me to visit MK. ;)
Youre right.

I dont like that.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
MK becomes the boutique, appointment only park? It feels the direction they need to go without creating three full time main streets.
My opinion is that the Magic Kingdom will remain WDW's "target destination" for most tourists for the foreseeable future. As such, it will remain incredibly popular and WDW's busiest park no matter what happens at the other gates.

However, the Magic Kingdom's operational problems are made considerably worse by the 2 parades and daily fireworks. Moving those experiences to another theme park specifically designed to handle them will alleviate the Magic Kingdom's worst vices.
 
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WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Saw it today. Went in with very low expectations and man, was I very pleasantly surprised. Enjoyed it far more than I ever expected...and dare I say, much more than Age of Ultron.
Just back from seeing it a few hours ago. I loved it. Dumb idea (not all comic heroes/characters are), but brought to life with lots of love. You could tell the entire cast was enjoying themselves. I probably liked it more than every Marvel film I've seen except GotG and possibly the first Iron Man. ... I even liked that it made fun of what I felt was was a ridiculous plot point from AoU.

It was just dumb fun done so well. No, I didn't need all the MCU references, but again that is Kevin Feige and his ego and his plans for 123 films.