A Spirited Perfect Ten

[aladdin2007]

Today's Spirited Flashback:

I came upon this little video a few days ago. It was filmed likely a few months after my first ever visit to The Happiest Place in Anaheim. It just made me happy to watch it because as great as DL is today, well, in many ways (most notably Tomorrowland) it is far lesser.

fantastic video, what a great little ride they had, themed tunnels, the tron effects tunnel, trees, views, mary blair's mural....are the tracks and tunnels still in place?
I guess were fortunate we still have a peoplemover, even though its condition is.......anyway, I do worry it wont be around for too many more years, why I dont know, something else for them to cut and save money on. I still say heads should roll for whoever decided on and approved the current 0% creative bore of a narration.

 

[StageFrenzy]

I'm all about that motor boat cruise.

Who is the current movie crush that you would like to star opposite of you?

 

[WDW1974]

The purist, the nostalgia addicts are just as bad as the corporate apologists. They hold on to their extreme views and won't accept reality.

No, I disagree. Largely people referred to as ''purists'' are people who hold Disney to its own standards, history and PR. They aren't extremists. Take for example the Horizons fanbois or the Figgy-loving Imagination fanbois (often part of the same group), I'm not at all sure that they'd be so angry at Disney if the company hadn't ripped out wonderfully creative attractions and replaced them with lousy attractions. ... And attractions that cost over $200 million total.

Rumor has it Iger pitched a 2.x Billion plan to the BoD and they bought it. Haters are already hating and they don't even have much of the details.

He didn't pitch it. WDI did. He signed off on it. And so did the BoD. Nothing rumor about it. (Oh, except Cupcake .... no, this wouldn't be her ... except The Oddly Waifish Man of Anemic Personality or his son Chapie would have to blog about it for most to believe it!)

You can't please people these days...Walt would've been laughed off the stage by the same cynics that love to use Universal's rehabilitation to somehow bash Disney.

No, you can please people today. I'm please when I visit UNI. I'm pleased when I visit DLR. I'm pleased when I visit one of Disney's international resorts or take a cruise. I'm even pleased by what I see happening (the tree slaughtering aside) at DAK.

What you need to get is Walt would have been kicked out of Disney and likely wound up homeless under the 405 freeway if he lived today. He created a company. A visionary entertainment company that was wildly successful financially. He didn't create or run a 21st century global media goliath that has no feelings, no warmth, no appreciation for its history or its founders and their principles and beliefs.

TWDC is about as MAGICal as what I flush after eating a large burrito!

Yes, be reasonable. Things are far from perfect at WDW, but it isn't as bad as many here want us to believe.

No, they're worse. ... But some things have hit rock bottom and some are starting to improve. But they're bad.

 

[WDW1974]

That video was awesome - thanks for sharing it!

It just brought back so many memories. DL was near perfect ... and that was 35 years in. And it showcases how much destruction has been done to that land with very little to show for it.

 

[Cesar R M]

Assuming the additional completed areas of the hub are similar to those that were completed while we were there in early June, can you point out the concrete wasteland you are referring to?
View attachment 99181

just face the camera to the castle.

Surprisingly, no! Very rarely did I ever encounter a truly disgusting room. Though, I once came out of a standard room with three large trash bags filled up...but that was a rouge occurrence in my time there.

oh, that definitively is pretty normal in conventions. Specially for those who sell products/merchandise (they produce things in the room, the leave the trash everyway.. and in the last day.. they pick up everything and put in large trashbags.

 

[Nemo14]

It just brought back so many memories. DL was near perfect ... and that was 35 years in. And it showcases how much destruction has been done to that land with very little to show for it.

I'm confident that my first visit to DL was much earlier than yours, but I'm sure I had that same overwhelming awe-struck feeling that you did. Again, thanks for sharing that video - great memories!

 

[Cesar R M]

The system is not biased towards the locals in any ways, shape or form. I assure you.

it is when the system crashes and the whole park goes into "free for all, every man for himself" mode!

 

[OneDNP]

Far more PROFITABLE as well, Todays Disney would make a Ferengi blush.

"The justification for profit is profit." FRoA #202

"Learn the customer's weaknesses, so that you can better take advantage of him." FRoA #87

 

[Cesar R M]

I agree with you. But...



Observing this back and forth (not just your post here, or any of your posts specifically) but this general back and forth between many different members over the past month or so as it has seemed to become a bit of a "thing" - once the memes start, you know it's a "thing" LOL.

Whenever those words are used together, they either are trying to explain something that it may actually apply to ("Disney is a business") or as a juvinile pejorative ("Dizzny iz a Bizzness" etc.) which just stalls the discussion.

The truth, like many things, is somewhat in between.

Why isn't there a new E-ticket every year? Because Disney is a business...publicly held...in the fiscal environment of 2015... one of the world's major corporations, and is so large at this point that folks tend to really over-idealize what they realistically could do.

That's why I find a good portion of the direct criticism thrown at Iger is completely unrealistic, because if the CEO of our dreams suddenly showed up - he'd still have to deal with the board - and if they started spending as lavishly as we wish as park-focused fans he would be out of a job in 3-5 years. It cannot be ignored that the WDC is a publicly held corporation. The stock market is really no more than a glorified gambling ring, and a few moves seen as wasteful or bad investments (even if long term they may not be) can make the stock price take a dive and reduce the companies value by billions.

On the other hand, yes, there is a bit of a "Disney Difference" - but this is no longer a company run by two brothers, and the WDC of today is of a scope that simply wasn't even conceivable back then. Yes, they should be holding to that spirit as much as they can, but on the other hand - if Walt were trying to build Disneyland today, it never would have gotten off the ground to begin with. It's not just "One Man's Dream" anymore - it's the wallets, pocketbooks, college funds, 401K's, and life savings of a very large portion of people who invest in the stock.

Wall Street is full of jokers, but remember - it's people who own this stock, and many suffer when stocks don't do well. It's not just Wall Street greed - for many folks, it's the only thing they have to prepare for the future (right or not, that's how it is - no retirement plans anymore, a 401k is really the best you can do).

So...there definitely is a valid time to say "Disney is a business" - and a valid time to say, "But, it's Disney" - but reducing them to memes, catchphrases, and rhetoric ignores the good points on both sides and really doesn't tell the actual situation by situation story.

But that is not the issue man,

The issue is that people DO NOT explain or try to extend their reasoning beyond "Disney is a business".

My complain is when they just use it as a trademark stamp cop-out to refuse to put a real argument out there.
Instead they have to rely to a troll style retort.
(like I had explained, feels very similar to "HITLER DID THIS!, THEREFORE EVERYONE IS WRONG" ad-hitlerum finisher used many times when they couldn't find any response.)

In your example, you pretty much explained WHY, extended the reasoning farther than just a single sentence.

 

[Shaman]

He didn't pitch it. WDI did. He signed off on it. And so did the BoD. .

So everyone had signed off on the plans before the meeting?

I thought after WDI handed over their designs to Iger, he reviews them and then goes to the BoD for final approval? Are creatives allowed at these BoD meetings?

Is WDW management even in the conversation at any point in the process?

 

[Cesar R M]

As safe as a baby in his mother's arms.

is it a millennial mother or a baby boomer?
Because I'm pretty sure one of them will be busy somewhere than holding the baby.

 

[PhotoDave219]

So everyone had signed off on the plans before the meeting?

I thought after WDI handed over their designs to Iger, he reviews them and then goes to the BoD for final approval? Are creatives allowed at these BoD meetings?

Is WDW management even in the conversation at any point in the process?

Nope. Not for years.

Thats what I've been trying to say when I say that There isn't the "Team Disney Orlando" anymore in the sense that they make big decisions.

They make little ones, like price gouging and upcharge parties.

 

[Shaman]

Nope. Not for years.

Thats what I've been trying to say when I say that There isn't the "Team Disney Orlando" anymore in the sense that they make big decisions.

They make little ones, like price gouging and upcharge parties.

Well, that's the root of the problem then.

There also seems to be a difference between the management teams at each park. AK seems to be better than the ones at Epcot and DHS at the moment.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Well, that's the root of the problem then.

There also seems to be a difference between the management teams at each park. AK seems to be better than the ones at Epcot and DHS at the moment.

You're looking at some different ideas here.

First, Burbank and Parks & Resorts Leadership - namely Bob Chapek - is now calling the shots.... assuming its not Staggs still in control. They make all the big decisions while Local Orlando Management sails the ship and maintains the profit margins. Orlando can do some things on their own but very little. Nice to see a brand manager of Ketchup is now in charge of Theme Parks. /sarcasmfont

Second.... yes, individual park management teams are not created equal. DAK is known for being glorious because of its lack of internal politics. Conversely, MK is one of the most cutthroat places to work in management.

What I've been trying to hammer home for a year now (and failing, clearly) is that internal politics runs this company and Walt Disney World is no exception. Its all who you know, who has power, who's making budget decisions and who gets the money. What you actually do has no bearing on your career- making yourself look good in a spreadsheet is. Guest service isnt the focus of management, CYA and rising above is.

This is the culture the company has created.

 

[1023]

You're looking at some different ideas here.

First, Burbank and Parks & Resorts Leadership - namely Bob Chapek - is now calling the shots.... assuming its not Staggs still in control. They make all the big decisions while Local Orlando Management sails the ship and maintains the profit margins. Orlando can do some things on their own but very little. Nice to see a brand manager of Ketchup is now in charge of Theme Parks. /sarcasmfont

Second.... yes, individual park management teams are not created equal. DAK is known for being glorious because of its lack of internal politics. Conversely, MK is one of the most cutthroat places to work in management.

What I've been trying to hammer home for a year now (and failing, clearly) is that internal politics runs this company and Walt Disney World is no exception. Its all who you know, who has power, who's making budget decisions and who gets the money. What you actually do has no bearing on your career- making yourself look good in a spreadsheet is. Guest service isnt the focus of management, CYA and rising above is.

This is the culture the company has created.

Ummmm...THIS^^^

*1023*

 

[ParentsOf4]

Maybe it isn't all that bad to let Disneyland lead by example. The success of DCA certainly factored into DHS eventually getting approved. I'll leave @ParentsOf4 to annoy Spirit with 5th gate speculation though.

It's the only time I wonder if @ParentsOf4 is smoking the stuff that Ted so enjoys!!!

I'm no pixieduster when I write that Disney needs to construct a 5th Gate in Orlando by 2025. WDW really needs one.

Throughout the decades, WDW's attendance has varied quite a bit. However, the general trend has always been upward. Even during Iger's 9-plus years as CEO, WDW's attendance has grown by over 2% annually despite no major expansion to attract more Guests.

If we assume a 4% growth for the rest of this fiscal year (WDW should beat that) and 1% growth after that, this is what WDW's per theme park attendance (i.e. WDW total attendance divided by the number of theme parks) looks like by 2025:

In just a few years, per park attendance surpasses even when WDW consisted of only the Magic Kingdom, the World's most popular theme park. WDW's theme parks simply cannot handle that kind of load in 2025.

Now let's assume the same attendance growth through 2024. Then, in 2025, let's assume a 5th theme park opens resulting in a relatively modest (for a new theme park) 10% bump in attendance:

Even with 5 theme parks, per theme park attendance in 2025 matches last year's number. 2014 was a record year for WDW and, by the way, one in which crowd levels were a significant source of complaints from Guests.

Note that these projections don't factor in the large investment Disney is about to make in DHS, which almost certainly will result in an additional 5-to-10% attendance bump.

With 5 theme parks in 2025, WDW will be crowded. With only 4 theme parks in 2025, WDW will be insufferable.

Remember, by 2025, it will have been over a quarter of a century since WDW's last theme park.

The numbers suggest a 5th Gate is not a pipe dream. By 2025, the numbers suggest it's a financial and operational necessity.

 

[Mike S]

I'm no pixieduster when I write that Disney needs to construct a 5th Gate in Orlando by 2025. WDW really needs one.

Throughout the decades, WDW's attendance has varied quite a bit. However, the general trend has always been upward. Even during Iger's 9-plus years as CEO, WDW's attendance has grown by over 2% annually despite no major expansion to attract more Guests.

If we assume a 4% growth for the rest of this fiscal year (WDW should beat that) and 1% growth after that, this is what WDW's per theme park attendance looks like by 2025:

View attachment 99248

In just a few years, per park attendance surpasses even when WDW consisted of only the Magic Kingdom, the World's most popular theme park. WDW's theme parks simply cannot handle that kind of load in 2025.

Now let's assume the same attendance growth through 2024. Then, in 2025, let's assume a 5th theme park opens resulting in a relatively modest (for a new theme park) 10% bump in attendance:

View attachment 99249

Even with 5 theme parks, per theme park attendance in 2025 matches last year's number. 2014 was a record year for WDW and, by the way, one in which crowd levels were a significant source of complaints from Guests.

Note that these projections don't factor in the large investment Disney is about to make in DHS, which almost certainly will result in an additional 5-to-10% attendance bump.

With 5 theme parks in 2025, WDW will be crowded. With only 4 theme parks in 2025, WDW will be insufferable.

Remember, by 2025, it will have been over a quarter of a century since WDW's last theme park.

The numbers suggest a 5th Gate is not a pipe dream. By 2025, the numbers suggest it's a financial and operational necessity.

At least you use numbers to back it up.

 

[Funmeister]

I'm no pixieduster when I write that Disney needs to construct a 5th Gate in Orlando by 2025. WDW really needs one.

Throughout the decades, WDW's attendance has varied quite a bit. However, the general trend has always been upward. Even during Iger's 9-plus years as CEO, WDW's attendance has grown by over 2% annually despite no major expansion to attract more Guests.

If we assume a 4% growth for the rest of this fiscal year (WDW should beat that) and 1% growth after that, this is what WDW's per theme park attendance looks like by 2025:

View attachment 99248

In just a few years, per park attendance surpasses even when WDW consisted of only the Magic Kingdom, the World's most popular theme park. WDW's theme parks simply cannot handle that kind of load in 2025.

Now let's assume the same attendance growth through 2024. Then, in 2025, let's assume a 5th theme park opens resulting in a relatively modest (for a new theme park) 10% bump in attendance:

View attachment 99249

Even with 5 theme parks, per theme park attendance in 2025 matches last year's number. 2014 was a record year for WDW and, by the way, one in which crowd levels were a significant source of complaints from Guests.

Note that these projections don't factor in the large investment Disney is about to make in DHS, which almost certainly will result in an additional 5-to-10% attendance bump.

With 5 theme parks in 2025, WDW will be crowded. With only 4 theme parks in 2025, WDW will be insufferable.

Remember, by 2025, it will have been over a quarter of a century since WDW's last theme park.

The numbers suggest a 5th Gate is not a pipe dream. By 2025, the numbers suggest it's a financial and operational necessity.

Not to be needy (you are the master of numbers) but do you happen to have a resort occupancy comparison with the above projection to justify possibly adding additional non-DVC resorts?

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm no pixieduster when I write that Disney needs to construct a 5th Gate in Orlando by 2025. WDW really needs one.

Throughout the decades, WDW's attendance has varied quite a bit. However, the general trend has always been upward. Even during Iger's 9-plus years as CEO, WDW's attendance has grown by over 2% annually despite no major expansion to attract more Guests.

If we assume a 4% growth for the rest of this fiscal year (WDW should beat that) and 1% growth after that, this is what WDW's per theme park attendance looks like by 2025:

View attachment 99248

In just a few years, per park attendance surpasses even when WDW consisted of only the Magic Kingdom, the World's most popular theme park. WDW's theme parks simply cannot handle that kind of load in 2025.

Now let's assume the same attendance growth through 2024. Then, in 2025, let's assume a 5th theme park opens resulting in a relatively modest (for a new theme park) 10% bump in attendance:

View attachment 99249

Even with 5 theme parks, per theme park attendance in 2025 matches last year's number. 2014 was a record year for WDW and, by the way, one in which crowd levels were a significant source of complaints from Guests.

Note that these projections don't factor in the large investment Disney is about to make in DHS, which almost certainly will result in an additional 5-to-10% attendance bump.

With 5 theme parks in 2025, WDW will be crowded. With only 4 theme parks in 2025, WDW will be insufferable.

Remember, by 2025, it will have been over a quarter of a century since WDW's last theme park.

The numbers suggest a 5th Gate is not a pipe dream. By 2025, the numbers suggest it's a financial and operational necessity.

Nevermind. /RosanneRosannadanna

 

[WildcatDen]

You're a terrorist, how dare you subject an unknowing victim to Skyline "Chili".

Oh. don't worry. I crafted a warning message that included the terms "explosive" and "diaper" in the text. . .