A *Special* Gathering

[mkepcotmgmak]

HAVE FUN!

Hope everyone has a GREAT time! How could you not? It's DISNEY! BTW - being a heterosexual Christian, i would like to point out that even though i do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, if I were to judge you for being that way, that would be as bad as any other sin. I just hope all other Christians will one day see it this way. let everyone be who THEY want to be and not who YOU want them to be. have a great time! say hi to mickey for me! he used to be my boss! PS-BE EXTRA NICE TO THE MK CUSTODIAL CMS! They are my family.

 

[GaryT977]

Originally posted by The Mom
If I weren't spending that week at the beach, I'd stop by to see you guys. :kiss:

You're welcome anytime, Mom!

 

[Mr. Toad]

OK, serious question.

We will be down in WDW from June 3 - 13. How many of those days should we expect to see increased crowds? Are there certain days that certain parks are the focal points? I'm just looking to avoid some of the big crowds that I assume will be there.

I actually expect that all of the parks are going to be extra crowded on at least June 6, 7, and 8 but any inside info from those that are attending would be appreciated.

And if we don't leave the property what are the chances we will have to deal with protesters?

And for those of you that are going I hope you have a great time!

P.S. Even though I will be there during that time you would not recognize me if you saw me. I look nothing like my avatar. :lol:

 

[Captain Cab]

Originally posted by Lilogirl
So according to Captain Cab, since I am a young, recently married woman who does not yet have children mean I shouldn't be at disney because I don't yet have a family of my own? I guess I don't fit the mold either then. I better cancel our trip for next week!

I think you're looking too deep into my post. Also, a little less sarcasm would have worked too.

Of course Walt Disney World was made for people of all ages. It was also made for people of ALL races, religions and sexual orientations. Not having children certainly doesn't limit anybody as to whether or not they can visit the parks.

In life we all have our own choices to make. This includes things such as whether or not to do well in school (or at work), whether or not to believe in a religion, your sexual preferences (/heterosexual), etc. If someone chooses to be a homosexual they've got just as much right as I do for choosing to be heterosexual. Those are some of the freedoms that we have in this country.

In this country it is safe to say that the vast majority of people are heteorsexual. When you have a lot of people on one side of the issue it is often difficult for them to see why people would want to be "the other way". This is true for many issues such as politics (Democrats (Liberals) vs Republicans (Conservatives)), religions (non-believers vs believers, and religions vs other religions), sexual orientation (homosexuals vs heterosexuals), life (pro-choice vs pro-life), etc. There is no true answer as to which side is correct, and debates have been going on for hundreds (if not more) of years.

The is one thing kinda odd about the Gay and Lesbian Rights people though. Right now they're putting pressure (no pun intended) on Congress and the general public to end discrimination against gays and lesbians. They want to be viewed and treated as equally as everybody else. However, when gay rights group organize special events (Gay Day), holidays (June is National Gay and Lesbian Awareness month) and clothing trends (red shirts at WDW) it's as if they're saying "Look at me! I'm different and proud of it!" Now why do they want to be equal yet choose to dress and act different from everybody else?

NOTE - Before some of you start hitting the reply buttom to flame me, I first have to say that not all of these trends are true for homosexual people. I have, in fact, been friends with several homosexuals at my different places of employment, and overall they are very nice and friendly people. It's a shame that a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. This is true for many groups of people.

As far as my stance on Gay Day at WDW, it comes down to the issue of forcing the homosexual issue on the general public. In this case the general public would be ordinary people vacationing in WDW. By advertising Gay Day and encouraging homosexual people to go to the parks and wear similar clothing, that is forcing the issue on the general public. It's a way of publicly getting a ton of attention whether the other people want to see it or not. If homosexual people want to be treated equally to heterosexuals, why are they stepping into the spotlight by participating in the event? Why don't they just go to WDW on their own time and wear regular clothing?

Walt Disney World is a world famous tourist destination where guests have a chance to forget about the issues in life and to just enjoy themselves being with their family and friends. Politics do not belong in Disney (or any other theme park for that matter). Gay Day forces the issues of homosexual lifestyles on people who are there on vacation. It is deeply offensive to many vacationers who do not wish to see that kind of behavior at a place like WDW.

A while back I was in the Magic Kingdom during Gay Day (back when it was new and took vacationers by surprise). Many homosexuals (many also behaved just fine, so don't even try to flame me on that one) who took part in the event took public displays of affection way too far for a family oriented theme park. Myself and other people were unfortunate to witness events such as males kissing (anything from French kissing to small pecks on the lips) in public, males groping each other's private parts, and some acts of sexuality between homosexuals taking places on certain rides and shows (also females with females for all previously listed events). Some people just do not realize that other people do not want to see that kind of behavior while on vacation. This is also true for heterosexuals who take their actions too far. Save it for the bedroom, folks.

A different example would be where a group of people decide to start wearing Nazi uniforms and performing Hitler-style salutes in a synagogue. Technically they are allowed to do that (freedom of expression, again), but it is completely inappropriate when you look at the target audience in the synagogue. However, if the group of Nazi-wannabe's instead dressed and acted like regular people in the synagogue then nobody would have a problem. They should just save their personal life for private establishments that welcome it. Just like in the military, "Don't ask, don't tell."

NOTE #2 - I do want to apologize for the homosexual stereotype that I gave in my previous post in this thread. At that time I just pulled a random homosexual stereotype from a website without realizing how wrong it was. Once again, full apologies for that comment.

I want to conclude this lengthy post by again stating that I do not agree with Gay Day and feel that it is completely inappropriate for a family oriented theme park. If people choose to be homosexual they should save it for private establishments that welcome that sort of behavior.

There's nothing wrong with being homosexual just as long as people don't force their issues amongst other people who don't like it.

I for one am a major fan of the Disney parks and plan on being there for many future visits. It is easy for me to avoid this event and I have the freedom of planning my trips around cases like this. And no wdwfan22, I won't "be the only one missing out of the Magic at Walt Disney World by staying away." Nice try. There'll be plenty of magic, if not more (new attractions), when I'm there on my next trip.

For those of you going specifically for Gay Day, I hope you have a great time in the parks and take what I said seriously. Other people really do not want to see those kinds of public displays of affection, especially around their little kids. Acting that way only hurts your fellow homosexual people and Gay and Lesbian Rights groups.

For those of you going just for the hulluva it, I also hope you have a great time in the parks. The weather is usually great this time of year and the parks shouldn't be as crowded as in the heat of the summer.

Thank you.

 

[mickeysaver]

Originally posted by mkt
This thread is gonna last about as long as J.Lo's marriages...

:lol: Dangit! I about choked on that one. :lol:

I agree though. Mickey

 

[no2apprentice]

Originally posted by Captain Cab
A different example would be where a group of people decide to start wearing Nazi uniforms and performing Hitler-style salutes in a synagogue. Technically they are allowed to do that (freedom of expression, again), but it is completely inappropriate when you look at the target audience in the synagogue. However, if the group of Nazi-wannabe's instead dressed and acted like regular people in the synagogue then nobody would have a problem.

I see the point you're trying to make, but actually, I don't think there's any court in the land that would find that this action was protected under the concept of "freedom of expression."


And while we're quoting...

Originally posted by Captain Cab
That's the one time of year where I won't be anywhere near Orlando.

While your long and intricate explanation is an attempt to explain yourself, your first post infers quite strongly that you didn't want to be there because of Gay Day. If this was not your meaning, fine. If you were so interested in defining your motivations and reasons, maybe you should eleborate a little more when you first make such comments instead of just making what appears to be a statement of disassociation with homosexuals.

 

[BRER STITCH]

 

[Glasgow]

Everyone has an opinion, and everyone is allowed to express it. If you don't like these special days, you don't have to go - that is fine. If you do like the Gay days, then that's fine too - but you don't feel the need to force your opinion on others either.

The point is, the beauty of this country is the fact that you can make the choices you want, and you can believe what you want as well. Try to keep an open mind and allow others their opinions, but please don't try to force your beliefs blindly on others - that goes for both sides.

Hope everyone enjoys their time at the parks :wave:

 

[antoinebusby]

Originally posted by KathyG/poohbear

Originally posted by Don L Duck
Besides maybe you should read that new book that's just been released.
A theologian has done 3 years worth of research an concluded that Jesus and 3 of his Apostles were gay.



I am not a gay basher but a Christian who takes offense to that remark. I tried to leave the thread and not say anything. but my convictions just would not let me. I love everyone and so does God but I can't let someone make a liberal statement like that about Jesus and not respond. People can write anything they want in a book but only one book is guaranteed to be the truth obout Jesus and that is the BIble. My best friend's boyfriend in college was living a "secret gay" life and dating her on the side. He ended up commiting suicide. The Church and everyone should have been there for him and offered him love and prevented his suicide so I have compassion for gays. Jesus' entire life was devoted to God's work and saving mankind from his sins.

I couldn't have said it better myself! Good Job!

 

[Bagheera]

Originally posted by Captain Cab
I think you're looking too deep into my post. Also, a little less sarcasm would have worked too.

Of course Walt Disney World was made for people of all ages. It was also made for people of ALL races, religions and sexual orientations. Not having children certainly doesn't limit anybody as to whether or not they can visit the parks.

In life we all have our own choices to make. This includes things such as whether or not to do well in school (or at work), whether or not to believe in a religion, your sexual preferences (/heterosexual), etc. If someone chooses to be a homosexual they've got just as much right as I do for choosing to be heterosexual. Those are some of the freedoms that we have in this country.

In this country it is safe to say that the vast majority of people are heteorsexual. When you have a lot of people on one side of the issue it is often difficult for them to see why people would want to be "the other way". This is true for many issues such as politics (Democrats (Liberals) vs Republicans (Conservatives)), religions (non-believers vs believers, and religions vs other religions), sexual orientation (homosexuals vs heterosexuals), life (pro-choice vs pro-life), etc. There is no true answer as to which side is correct, and debates have been going on for hundreds (if not more) of years.

The is one thing kinda odd about the Gay and Lesbian Rights people though. Right now they're putting pressure (no pun intended) on Congress and the general public to end discrimination against gays and lesbians. They want to be viewed and treated as equally as everybody else. However, when gay rights group organize special events (Gay Day), holidays (June is National Gay and Lesbian Awareness month) and clothing trends (red shirts at WDW) it's as if they're saying "Look at me! I'm different and proud of it!" Now why do they want to be equal yet choose to dress and act different from everybody else?

NOTE - Before some of you start hitting the reply buttom to flame me, I first have to say that not all of these trends are true for homosexual people. I have, in fact, been friends with several homosexuals at my different places of employment, and overall they are very nice and friendly people. It's a shame that a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch. This is true for many groups of people.

As far as my stance on Gay Day at WDW, it comes down to the issue of forcing the homosexual issue on the general public. In this case the general public would be ordinary people vacationing in WDW. By advertising Gay Day and encouraging homosexual people to go to the parks and wear similar clothing, that is forcing the issue on the general public. It's a way of publicly getting a ton of attention whether the other people want to see it or not. If homosexual people want to be treated equally to heterosexuals, why are they stepping into the spotlight by participating in the event? Why don't they just go to WDW on their own time and wear regular clothing?

Walt Disney World is a world famous tourist destination where guests have a chance to forget about the issues in life and to just enjoy themselves being with their family and friends. Politics do not belong in Disney (or any other theme park for that matter). Gay Day forces the issues of homosexual lifestyles on people who are there on vacation. It is deeply offensive to many vacationers who do not wish to see that kind of behavior at a place like WDW.

A while back I was in the Magic Kingdom during Gay Day (back when it was new and took vacationers by surprise). Many homosexuals (many also behaved just fine, so don't even try to flame me on that one) who took part in the event took public displays of affection way too far for a family oriented theme park. Myself and other people were unfortunate to witness events such as males kissing (anything from French kissing to small pecks on the lips) in public, males groping each other's private parts, and some acts of sexuality between homosexuals taking places on certain rides and shows (also females with females for all previously listed events). Some people just do not realize that other people do not want to see that kind of behavior while on vacation. This is also true for heterosexuals who take their actions too far. Save it for the bedroom, folks.

A different example would be where a group of people decide to start wearing Nazi uniforms and performing Hitler-style salutes in a synagogue. Technically they are allowed to do that (freedom of expression, again), but it is completely inappropriate when you look at the target audience in the synagogue. However, if the group of Nazi-wannabe's instead dressed and acted like regular people in the synagogue then nobody would have a problem. They should just save their personal life for private establishments that welcome it. Just like in the military, "Don't ask, don't tell."

NOTE #2 - I do want to apologize for the homosexual stereotype that I gave in my previous post in this thread. At that time I just pulled a random homosexual stereotype from a website without realizing how wrong it was. Once again, full apologies for that comment.

I want to conclude this lengthy post by again stating that I do not agree with Gay Day and feel that it is completely inappropriate for a family oriented theme park. If people choose to be homosexual they should save it for private establishments that welcome that sort of behavior.

There's nothing wrong with being homosexual just as long as people don't force their issues amongst other people who don't like it.

I for one am a major fan of the Disney parks and plan on being there for many future visits. It is easy for me to avoid this event and I have the freedom of planning my trips around cases like this. And no wdwfan22, I won't "be the only one missing out of the Magic at Walt Disney World by staying away." Nice try. There'll be plenty of magic, if not more (new attractions), when I'm there on my next trip.

For those of you going specifically for Gay Day, I hope you have a great time in the parks and take what I said seriously. Other people really do not want to see those kinds of public displays of affection, especially around their little kids. Acting that way only hurts your fellow homosexual people and Gay and Lesbian Rights groups.

For those of you going just for the hulluva it, I also hope you have a great time in the parks. The weather is usually great this time of year and the parks shouldn't be as crowded as in the heat of the summer.

Thank you.

Oh, man. I don't even know where to begin.

As a Jew, I am offended by your example. How you can put homosexuals (no matter your feelings toward them) in the same category as Nazis is beyond me. I can't even say anything more on that topic because I am so outraged.

While I am heterosexual, I support people's right to be homosexual. Note that I say "be", not "choose" (your word). I can't believe that people still believe that it's a choice.

Then you say that the reason you're bothered by Gay Day is the fact that they're forcing it on the general public. So if there were a Jewish Days event, would that offend the Muslims or Christian Fundamentalists because it's being "forced on the general public"? How about abortion protesters? (From your apparent religious views and your phrasing, I'm assuming that you're against abortion.) Aren't they forcing their ideas on the general public? And far more militantly than a group of people who are having an event for people to get together to have fun and celebrate the validity of their natural orientation?

Then, you go on to complain that the thing that offended you about Gay Days was the overt public displays of affection, especially those that went too far. You then say that similar PDAs from heterosexuals were also unacceptable. So therefore, there's no difference? Why are those whose orientation offends you different and must you single them out?

You, sir, offend me, and that's all I have to say about that.



Have lots of fun there, folks! :wave: :wave:

 

[Main Street USA]

Originally posted by Bagheera
I can't believe that people still believe that it's a choice.

I'm not going to say whether or not I agree or disagree with this statement, BUT what exactly makes your opinion that it's NOT a choice a fact? Strong opinions, no matter how strong, do not equal fact.

And Gary, my wife and I would love to meet up and go to the Comedy Warehouse again! Unfortunately, we won't be there until late August. Make sure you see at least 2 shows in one night for us! Have a good time everyone!

 

[Captain Cab]

Originally posted by no2apprentice
While your long and intricate explanation is an attempt to explain yourself, your first post infers quite strongly that you didn't want to be there because of Gay Day. If this was not your meaning, fine. If you were so interested in defining your motivations and reasons, maybe you should eleborate a little more when you first make such comments instead of just making what appears to be a statement of disassociation with homosexuals.

My first post was short because I was making a simple statement about my opinion of Gay Day. I had no idea so many people would be upset, otherwise I would have tried to clarify it better in my first post.


Bagheera,

First, you don't have to quote my entire lengthy message to make a post against it. That was pointless and unnecessary.

Second, I did not mean to offend any Jewish people in my example. It was just an example about acting properly in certain situations. It may not have been the best of examples, but it works. If you've got a better example on this situation then please go ahead and share it with everybody.

Third, if someone wants to be homosexual I could care less. I don't like it, but if they want to be that way it's their choice. It's their decision. All I ask is that they keep their activities to themselves and their private establishments.

Forth, why wouldn't it be their choice to be homosexual? From a non-religious point-of-view, all people are born into the world equally. Throughout their life they make choices. Some are good and can lead to success, and others are bad and can lead to failure. One of the choices is their sexuality. Some people decide to be heterosexual, some homosexual, and others bi-sexual. There is no wrong choice amongst the three, but it is their choice. They're the ones in control of that decision.

Then you say that the reason you're bothered by Gay Day is the fact that they're forcing it on the general public. So if there were a Jewish Days event, would that offend the Muslims or Christian Fundamentalists because it's being "forced on the general public"?

Yes, that is correct. I don't keep up with all of the events that take place in WDW, but by far it appears that the most controversial one is Gay Day. My belief (a.k.a. opinion) is that there shouldn't be any "special days" in Walt Disney World (or any theme park unless they rent the whole park to themselves) for any political, religious or other controversial groups.

People shell out big bucks to go to the theme parks to relax and try to temporarily forget about all the issues in the world today. Having certain events like that totally defeats the purpose of taking a vacation. If people aren't going to be able to relax in Disney, then they'll sure as hell find another place to take their vacation (and spending money).

How about abortion protesters? (From your apparent religious views and your phrasing, I'm assuming that you're against abortion.) Aren't they forcing their ideas on the general public? And far more militantly than a group of people who are having an event for people to get together to have fun and celebrate the validity of their natural orientation?

What those protesters (Operation Rescue) did was just as bad. By marching in front of the gates and holding signs and handing out fliers inside the park they were clearly forcing their beliefs on innocent guests. Disney security should have kicked them all the way back to I-4 and off Disney property. Protesting in front of an abortion clinic is one thing, but doing that on Disney property is totally inappropriate for the vacationing families.

Yes, I am anti-abortion, but it's based on non-religious beliefs. Again, I do not see it as "celebrat[ing] the validity of their natural orientation." I see it as their right to choose, and their whole purpose of being in Disney at that time is to show off their stance to the world. Why are they celebrating being different when many of those gay and lesbian rights groups want to be treated equal to heterosexual people?

Then, you go on to complain that the thing that offended you about Gay Days was the overt public displays of affection, especially those that went too far. You then say that similar PDAs from heterosexuals were also unacceptable. So therefore, there's no difference?

That is correct that I am against them both showing too much PDA. However, there's a huge difference between a male and female French kissing as two males doing it. Again, both parties should save the general public from witnessing these actions, and the actions should be saved for private establishments where it would be appropriate.

Why are those whose orientation offends you different and must you single them out?

It's called Gay Day, and soon many innocent families are going to have to deal with it themselves. I feel sorry for them having to explain what they see to their children. I feel sorry for everybody else who also have to witness the actions that may take place the next weekend. That's something that definitely should not take place in a Disney park (or any other theme park for that matter).

You, sir, offend me, and that's all I have to say about that.

Whew! Now that's a relief. I can sleep peacefully now that I have managed to unintentionally offend somebody.

I want to restate my comments that many homosexual people are very friendly and well behaved in public, but there are quite a few that don't care about others and will do whatever they want. A few bad people can ruin any group ("militant" anti-abortionists, Muslim extremists, etc).


If anybody else has any questions/comments I will be glad to answer them either here in this thread or via private messages.

 

[Bagheera]

Originally posted by Main Street USA
I'm not going to say whether or not I agree or disagree with this statement, BUT what exactly makes your opinion that it's NOT a choice a fact? Strong opinions, no matter how strong, do not equal fact.

I've read several articles regarding scientific findings that it is related to either a gene or a level of a chemical in the brain. (I can't remember all the details at 1:30am.) Also from frank conversations with several homosexual friends and relatives.

 

[burbur]

I want to conclude this lengthy post by again stating that I do not agree with Gay Day and feel that it is completely inappropriate for a family oriented theme park. If people choose to be homosexual they should save it for private establishments that welcome that sort of behavior.

seeing as how i'm gay and all... i can't really choose to turn it off when i enter a theme park or a public place. i'm gay all the time. if you have a beef with it, look the other way. or go up to conroy road and go to christian theme park, cuz i'm sure not many gays are gonna be hitting up that place.

 

[Bagheera]

I've got an idea. I think that everybody now knows how everybody else stands on these issues. I think that we can also agree that nobody is going to change their opinion on any of these issues after any further debate. How about we agree to disagree, wish everybody who'll be at Walt Disney World over the next week or so a fun time, and let this thread die a peaceful death? Then we can go back to arguing about more important things, like what date Mission:Space will open, and how many ladders will actually be involved?

I'll start. :zipit: :zipit: :zipit: :zipit:

 

[RPMdfw]

Originally posted by Main Street USA
I'm not going to say whether or not I agree or disagree with this statement, BUT what exactly makes your opinion that it's NOT a choice a fact? Strong opinions, no matter how strong, do not equal fact.

I'm sorry. I have to weigh in on this one. Main Street USA, I respect you a great deal and almost always enjoy your posts. But when it comes to the "Is Homosexuality a choice issue" I must say loudly IT IS NOT! This rant is not aimed at you specifically, by the way. It is not personal, but it's something that has been building as I read everything on this thread.

What age were all of you when someone took you aside and said "Do you choose to be gay or straight? What? no one ever made you choose that? Hmm. Me neither. I did not choose to be gay!

I didn't choose to be born gay. I didn't choose to be the last minority that it's still legal to discriminate against in this country. I didn't choose to be the guy who gets singled out and called nasty names in high school because I'm different. It wasn't my choice, but it IS my life (note that I said my life not my lifestyle. I don't have a lifestyle, I have a LIFE, the same as everyone else.) Do I complain that the creator made me "special"? No. I live my life and try to be the best person I can be. Those who know me will tell you that I'm a great person. I work, I pay taxes, I vote, I serve on jury duty, I do everything that an American should. I'm a good person, a good citizen, and a damned nice guy. And I'm getting REALLY TIRED of hearing people on these boards imply that they should keep their children from coming into contact with me because a small part of who I am is gay.

Moving on to public displays of affection. I was at Disney World in March. I saw LOTS of heterosexual couples engaging in public dispays of affection. Do I want to see it? No! Do I begrudge them their happiness? Of course not. (Especially when the people I saw most often holding hands and hugging each other were my parents, my brother and his girlfriend or my sister and her fiance. I celebrate the fact that they have what I do not. Someone to share their life with. And when I find the right man they will do the same for me.) Why is it okay for straight people to hold hands or hug, but not gay people? Because there is a double standard in our society that IS NOT FAIR! Until this double standard is gone, then events like Gay Days will be NECCISSARY to provide visibility to the fact that we are here. We are people that enjoy things that everyone else does, and we deserve the same respect that everyone else gets. Not because we're gay, but because we're PEOPLE!

I look forward to the day that we don't need an event like Gay Days becuase it truly doesn't matter to anyone whether a person is gay, straight, christian, atheist, black, white, polka dotted or whatever. I hope I live to see it. Until that day comes however, don't tell me that I'm a second class citizen, don't tell me that I am unworthy of gathering with my friends at Disney World, and do not tell me that holding hands with my prince charming is wrong, because I will not be treated unfairly, nor should I have to.

I'm sorry that this post is so long. I'm sorry that it is so charged with emotion regarding volitile issues. I know this post may get this thread locked or even deleted. I know I could get banned from WDWmagic for this post, and I would truly hate for that to happen, because I very much enjoy participating in this online Disney Community. I won't however roll over like a dog to be kicked again.

Peace, love, and Mickey Mouse!

 

[EthylCooper]

Darn.

Well, shoot. I read the beginning of this thread last night at home (where I have browser issues and can't post) and waited all day long to come here to a real computer and respond...and imagine my surprise at the directions this thread went. And yes, I suppose the thread should die, but I wanted to respond so badly....so please forgive me for adding one more post.

Here it is:

Hi Gary! I won't be there for the gathering in question, but I do plan to be at the World this weekend. I'll be at Pleasure Island sometime late Friday night, in MGM all day Saturday, and in the MK Sunday morning and Epcot Sunday night. If anyone from the boards is going to be in any of these same places, I'd love to say hello! I won't be there yet for the time Gary mentioned, but if he or any other Magics think you'll be at PI Friday night, let me know & I'll make a point to look for you. Hope to see you there! :wave:

 

[Main Street USA]

Originally posted by RPMdfw
I'm sorry. I have to weigh in on this one. Main Street USA, I respect you a great deal and almost always enjoy your posts. But when it comes to the "Is Homosexuality a choice issue" I must say loudly IT IS NOT! This rant is not aimed at you specifically, by the way. It is not personal, but it's something that has been building as I read everything on this thread.

I see your opinion is the same as many others. This is totally fine. I was just saying that it hasn't been scientifically proven one way or the other. If it had, there would be no debate.

I understand that you are personally homosexual, and as far as you're concerned, have in no way chosen to like men over women. However, I sometimes wonder if there are certain things that happen when we're all young (possibly even too young to remember) that could effect a circumstance such as whether or not we're gay or straight, as well as many other circumstances throughout life. The depths of the human mind are virtually endless, and we all would have to admit that it is certainly a possibility that it is a choice, albeit possibly unconcious.

Because the mind is such a complicated thing, and the issue has so many different scenarios, I choose to ride the fence on this one. I simply do not know. I would sure like to, if for no other reason than to end this thread. But, seriously, unless someone here has scientifically discovered something that is impossible to disprove, then none of us know for sure, and I'm afraid thats the only fact of this particular matter.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

This thread reminds me a phrase an old instructor of mine used to use;


" Opinions are like holes, everyone has one, but no one likes having someone elses shoved in your face."


I think you should all lighten up, and except the fact that you former colonials have very little to gripe about in the grand scheme of things. So lets just keep a perspective on things.

Oh Just a point of order Capn Cab was correct in 98 I saw two guys that looked like lost extras from Precilla Queen of the Desert.

As they would say on Dragnet, "just the facts".

And I wish all Austarlians all the best on their special day.:animwink:

 

[RalphieN]

Re: HAVE FUN!

Originally posted by mkepcotmgmak
being a heterosexual Christian, i would like to point out that even though i do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, if I were to judge you for being that way, that would be as bad as any other sin. I just hope all other Christians will one day see it this way. let everyone be who THEY want to be and not who YOU want them to be.

It is not about letting people be who they want to be. For Christians, it is about who God wants us to be. As Christians, we are commissioned to preach the Gospel to the world and help save people from eternal damnation. We are all sinners and fall short in the sight of God but the difference here is that some admit that they are sinners and are trying to be more like Christ while others want to do as they will and change nothing. It is not about judging people. Christians are called to love the sinner but hate the sin. If I saw you driving your car recklessly towards a cliff, should I try to do something to save you or would I be being judgemental?

So if you would like defend homosexuals for what they do, I would like to defend Christians for doing what they do.