A Lingering Question

[vjgraham]

Good question, one that I have often asked myself. I joined the foruma and just read posts for almost a year before I started posting myself. I have noticed that there are some negative people on here but for the most part it is very positive.

 

[xdan0920]

As evidenced by calling people "sensitive girls?"

Self-awareness: it's not just for breakfast anymore.

So, is this like the most attention you've ever received? Or was there ever a time when you did something worthwhile?

Just because YOU'RE wrong about this doesn't mean everyone's wrong about everything. You do everyone a disservice by implying that's what we're saying.



And all we've said is that you're very very wrong. In fact, this sentence of yours alone proves how wrong you are, because if it were all about pleasing kids, they wouldn't need to bother innovating anything, because as current kids get too old to enjoy WDW, a new generation comes along for whom all this stuff is new. There'd be much less of a need for attractions to "come and go."



Or, when people prove you wrong, you don't have to be as much of an insufferable pantload. But if you insist on being an insufferable pantload, don't be surprised if people treat you like an insufferable pantload.



Quite frankly, the hole you've dug is so deep, I'm surprised you still get wifi down there. But if you want to pretend you're never ever going to look at this thread again, who am I to deny you that joy? After all, it's not like you're an "average visitor" to Disney and I'm telling you to stop enjoying yourself because you're not a child or anything. :shrug:

Been a while since someone drew the ire of Slappy. Outstanding stuff Mr Magoo. You never disappoint. :ROFLOL: I just wish you'd lay into folks a but more often.

YOU all are smart people and know more than anyone about everything.

Finally, common ground. :wave:

 

[lazyboy97o]

even if that tagline is legit, everyone has always seen it as a place for their kids with activities that just so happen to be for them as well. that's just people, and throwing examples of Walt Disney saying otherwise doesn't throw the stereotype out the window.

What tag line? And again you are flat out wrong that the parks have always been viewed for kids. Thus the quip from National Geographic or celebrities and dignitaries who would visit Disneyland. Again, the people who most often agree with you would say that you, and the rest of us, have a serious problem.

i like how we keep dodging "average guests". obviously those aren't the average guests :brick:

Then why do so many companies like to fly their adult employees out to Walt Disney World or conventions and meetings?

just because you don't want to believe it doesn't mean it's not true.

The difference is that we have more than condescending observations to back up our statements.

OKAY.

i'm done with backtalking as if YOU all are smart people and know more than anyone about everything. you don't. you don't know people, equally as much as i do, which i did say i wasn't an expert. i never claimed to know everything and i actually don't want to refer myself as a know-it-all. because i don't.

Are you some well respected sociologist that you are simply used to people deferring to your word on people?

 

[flynnibus]

WDW will never be seen as 'just for kids' as long as the forums as populated by adults that enjoy going to WDW... because those people would never admit that they are going to a kid-focused place

FWIW.. in my network of peeps at the office and old friends.. I have 5 friends who all went to WDW or DL in this spring break/easter window. Every one of them has kids under 10yrs old. For all of them, the kids were the center of the trip in why to goto Disney for this vacation...

There are many degrees in 'kid' here..
.. kid friendly
.. kid inclusive
.. kid targeted
.. kid centric
.. kid exclusive

Disney is no Chuck E Cheese.. but you can't ignore how kid centric has been invading the resort more and more. There is still things for adults to enjoy - but alot of that is through reliving their childhood.

If the parks were the MK alone.. I'd say it's very kid centric. But as a whole, the other elements in the other parks help pull the average up a bit.

Being so kid friendly helps the parks also be 'senior friendly'. Between the amount of customer service and the slower pace of so much stuff.. Disney gets to work both ends without pushing either out - unlike a universal who by focusing more on the thrill.. ends up excluding more people.

I think most of this depends on where you are looking at the parks.

Look at something like A Bug's Land. It's beautiful.. but most west coasters hate it with a passion because it really is essentially 'kid exclusive'.

When people look at 'kid' stuff.. are they enjoying it as an adult.. or reliving childhood past?

When I'm at Blizzard beach.. I'm enjoying it as an adult.. in the 'now'.. but when I ride the Astro Orbitor.. it's more about nostalgia then actual 'now' entertainment to me.

Disney does still offer a range.. but the amount of 'kid centric' or 'kid exclusive' is on the rise.

 

[slappy magoo]

We believed in our idea - a family park where parents and children could have fun- together.
Walt Disney

You're dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway.
Walt Disney
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/walt_disney_3.html#GlLtyvx8bA08mOcq.99


_____hole. What did HE know?

 

[Hakunamatata]

Which is certainly one of the reasons he televised the grand opening ceremony live. To keep the new park a secret from the rest of the nation and all......

Again. Can you please tone down the aggressive use of facts in your posting style.

Also, I think there must be a technical problem. Is it just me or does the other party have issue with the "caps" button?

 

[nepalostparks]

I believe that some around here are misusing the term "average" over and over again. It is true that the "average" guest arrives with more than zero kids. This is a mathematical must. Why?, because some arrive with zero kids, and some with more than zero. Nobody can have negative kids and balance things out, so it is correct to say that the "average" guest has more than zero kids. Of course, the average is probably something like .8 kids, which no person actually has, but that's another story.

J03Y, you've been using "average" when what you mean is "most common". For example, the "average" guest cannot be completely ignorant, because while many guests may know nothing, some will know a little, and some an awful lot. The "average" amount of knowledge is, therefore, more than zero -- again, mathematically. Similarly, the "average" guest cannot have just bought their Disney clothing. Some will have just bought it, and some will have bought it long ago, and some will not have Disney clothing at all. Therefore, the "average" guest will not have just bought Disney clothing.

It seems, though, that you believe that the type of guest that is most common (by the way, this is called the "mode", a less commonly usesd term in statistics) at the parks has kids, and is rude, ignorant, etc. Perhaps, and something to discuss. I don't agree, but I suspect others would.

But when you trumpet your intimate knowledge of Disney guests and Walt's purposes, while displaying your unwillingness ("Don't tell me") to hear otherwise and using terms with actual meanings inappropriately, you get negative reactions from the "average" readers of this forum.

And in response to the OP, most of the posters here really do love Disney, although some are more critical than others. But that's what keeps a discussion board going - differing opinions. Hang around for a few weeks, and you can generally figure out who knows what they are talking about, and who doesn't. (Although in some cases, it becomes apparent rather quickly as to those who don't :lookaroun)

Holding a differing opinion, of course, is not being rude or attacking someone. There are several posters here who I may disagree with on some points, but that doesn't mean I feel they have disrespected or targeted me. But like any internet forum, there will always be those who pick a fight for the simple fact they like to feel important and get someone else's knickers in a twist. Key is not to engage them too seriously, and soon enough, they'll get themselves banned, or simply disappear when no one wants to play anymore.

 

[jtizzle1023]

I have noticed the same in the past few months. Its kinda annoying. Lets take the negativity down a bit everyone :ROFLOL:

 

[Captain Chaos]

I have noticed the same in the past few months. Its kinda annoying. Lets take the negativity down a bit everyone :ROFLOL:

No need to take the negativity down... WDW's failings, which there are many, need to be brought to the front and center just as much as the things they do right... Not everything is perfect and we shouldn't stomp out the negativity because some people cannot handle it...

 

[disney fan 13]

Joey...is that you again!?

I knew it, I just knew it! :sohappy:

No, Joey got moved to the call center a few months ago...

 

[Magenta Panther]

I love Walt Disney, and his parks are a passionate hobby of mine. When I gripe about those parks, I gripe because I just have this faith that if the talented people in the organization were let alone to do what they do best, then the parks would be simply amazing and up to the standards Walt himself set.

Sure, some people aren't that demanding, some visitors to the parks leave pretty pleased even if the parks weren't as clean or the rides as well-maintained as they should be. But then they'd probably be similarly pleased with a decent visit to Six Flags or Busch Gardens. They have lower expectations, for whatever reason. And that's fine.

But WDW and Disneyland are supposed to be special. They're supposed to be magical, uplifting, inspirational, a world apart. When the parks fall short of that standard, many of us who understand and love Disney, as opposed to those who just love a good theme park, feel frustrated, sad and even a little angry. We just want Disney to be DISNEY and STAY Disney and not devolve into a corporate giant without a speck of the soul that once transfigured it.

To me, Disney doesn't need Avatar or Muppets or Marvel to be competitive. IT JUST NEEDS TO BE DISNEY!!!! When I go to a Disney park, I want a DISNEY experience. That's the glue, that's why I spend over $1000 a visit, that's why I will return when the FLE is done and will visit Disneyland when the new DCA is completed. But I won't be returning to see Avatar. It won't keep me from the parks, but it has no drawing power as far as I'm concerned. BECAUSE IT'S NOT DISNEY.

There. Rant over. Gripe terminated. Thanks for reading. :wave:

 

[marni1971]

Wow. Has he/she gone ?

 

[dave&di]

Wow. Has he/she gone ?

Yes, the hole was too big to climb out of!

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Wow. Has he/she gone ?

Still, he/she shares his/her opinion with 95% of the population at large, and even with a majority of guests.

 

[marni1971]

Still, he/she shares his/her opinion with 95% of the population at large, and even with a majority of guests.

I'd have said 94.7%

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I'd have said 94.7%

Yeah, that was my initial estimate too. Then I hired this professional opinion poll firm, and they established the number at 95.18%.


Much of my very criticism of WDW in the past two decades is this very phenomenon, that people assume Disney is for kids. Which it wasn't build as, but which the guests expect it is and which they want to see once there. This skews guests surveys to favour kiddie experiences ('My princess totally loved it!'), whereas guests don't even know how to react to non-kiddie experiences ('What was that Horizons ride even about? No story, no jokes, no thrills? What a dissapointment, a waste of time')

In response, the MK in particular is steadily being transformed into the image of those who expect Disney to be for kids. A Toddler Cartoon Kingdom. It will become this. And inevitably, sooner or later people will think you are barking mad for insisting the MK was not concieved of as being for kids. Because that is certainly not what the MK looks like, or what it is marketed as.

Who can blame them if they think it is for kids? Who can blame them for looking at you funny if you say that you'd prefer Tomorrowland to be free of cartoons? For a vast majority of guests, the notion of a MK without a single cartoon-driven experience in TL, FL, AL is preposterous. Why, they barely believe you when you say that this was reality for most of the MK's history.

The overwhelming majority expect to find kiddie experiences and cartoons, and so Disney has transformed the MK into that, into a kiddie cartoon kingdom. A process which continues to this very day.

 

[xdan0920]

Yeah, that was my initial estimate too. Then I hired this professional opinion poll firm, and they established the number at 95.18%.


Much of my very criticism of WDW in the past two decades is this very phenomenon, that people assume Disney is for kids. Which it wasn't build as, but which the guests expect it is and which they want to see once there. This skews guests surveys to favour kiddie experiences ('My princess totally loved it!'), whereas guests don't even know how to react to non-kiddie experiences ('What was that Horizons ride even about? No story, no jokes, no thrills? What a dissapointment, a waste of time')

In response, the MK in particular is steadily being transformed into the image of those who expect Disney to be for kids. A Toddler Cartoon Kingdom. It will become this. And inevitably, sooner or later people will think you are barking mad for insisting the MK was not concieved of as being for kids. Because that is certainly not what the MK looks like, or what it is marketed as.

Who can blame them if they think it is for kids? Who can blame them for looking at you funny if you say that you'd prefer Tomorrowland to be free of cartoons? For a vast majority of guests, the notion of a MK without a single cartoon-driven experience in TL, FL, AL is preposterous. Why, they barely believe you when you say that this was reality for most of the MK's history.

The overwhelming majority expect to find kiddie experiences and cartoons, and so Disney has transformed the MK into that, into a kiddie cartoon kingdom. A process which continues to this very day.

:hurl:

That was not fun to read or think about. Mainly because I agree with you.

 

[Dads 2 Boys]

um for starters, they're the obvious tourists. i live in both Miami and Orlando. the two places in the country, much less Florida, that get lots of tourists. not saying i'm an expert, but i can distinguish what the average guest at the parks are.

they come with their kids wearing tacky Disney t-shirts that you can tell they literally just bought. they're loud, obnoxious, RUDE (sdfhfksj don't get me started on their rudeness) and get on the ride with their kids despite the fact that they aren't supposed to bring a specific one on. and for some reason Space Mountain is the one i see it the most with :lookaroun i dont even know why.they're also, a lot of times, the ones who are completely ignorant of Disney and act as everything is new to them. there was this lady once who almost took her obvious 2-year-old onto Dinosaur. she thought it was a movie and turned to her and was like "um, ma'am...this is a scary dark ride..." she turned around and walked off.

i've been to Disney and lived in Miami long enough to know who the average park guest is. the average guest, doesn't care about the specificity you are all getting into. they go to Disney to let their kids go crazy on Dumbo or the carousel.

Wow...you really are a ignorant putz. I was reading this thinking he's getting hammered for borderline reasons but after this.....not so much.

I would consider myself an average guests and do NOT in any way match up to any of your descriptions and I would venture to say most people do not match that. I'm intelligent, dress well (even with my rare WDW attire) and me, my wife and my kids are extremely well behaved.

Using extremes to make your point does nothing but invalidate it. You are basically calling every average guest low-life pieces of monkey ____*t who don't know how to dress. That's how you expect to have your opinions taken seriously?

 

[Dads 2 Boys]

What constant clamoring? Can you link to a thread or two that are longingly wishing for extinct attractions to come back?

There are always complaints about WOM, Mr Toads and many, many others not to mention all of Pleasure Island. You've never read anything about this? Really?

 

[WED Purist]

Oops

OK, so that thread didn't go too well. Sorry about that, but if you'd like to start another one on some optimistic thoughts of upcoming changes, I'd love to chat.