A Lingering Question

[real mad hatter]

Ding!Ding.

In before the lock! Please return to your corners for the next round.Come on.Time out.:brick:

 

[dave&di]

Isn't a 'tourist' someone who travels to sightsee/visit attractions? Surely most visitors to WDW are 'tourists'. How many labels are there for thousands of visitors? I'm a 'tourist', I'm kind, considerate, polite and friendly, I may wear a mickey mouse t-shirt :drevil: fair enough. I act like a decent human being no matter where I am, so I guess I'm not the 'average tourist'.

 

[slappy magoo]

and all the point of what i was initially trying to say was that generations of kids change over time and therefore the parks have to change to what the new demographic wants to see. you sensitive girls :brick: i wasn't trying to offend anyone with my statement.

As evidenced by calling people "sensitive girls?"

Self-awareness: it's not just for breakfast anymore.

So, is this like the most attention you've ever received? Or was there ever a time when you did something worthwhile?

 

[Sans Souci]

I wonder if the residents of Florida would have to pay income taxes if it weren't for the "obnoxious tourists"? :drevil:

 

[wm49rs]

ignoring what i said just because it had a political word and only focusing on the last sentence doesn't make you clever. it just means you tried to avoid what i was saying. and this entire time you have all been trying to only makes sense of what you want. you can;t just go around and pin this on me and say that i'm "missing the point" when you are too, and you too are picking and choosing what to believe so that it suits your views. at least i'm making and effort to understand what you have to say. but i can't understand if you don't explain. and so far your "explanations" and "factual evidences" have been nothing but recycled Disney taglines and stories you have regurgitated to each other so much that it's all become synthetic truth.

and all the point of what i was initially trying to say was that generations of kids change over time and therefore the parks have to change to what the new demographic wants to see. you sensitive girls :brick: i wasn't trying to offend anyone with my statement.

Actually, I was just trying to keep you from getting booted from these forums. Other than that, your statement was nothing more than a regurgitation of what you've implied before as your supposed "knowledge" into the "average" guest.

 

[MichWolv]

i like how we keep dodging "average guests". obviously those aren't the average guests :brick:

With all due respect, just what do you happen to know about the "average guest?"

Whaaattt... To be an average guest you have to have kids??

um for starters, they're the obvious tourists. i live in both Miami and Orlando. the two places in the country, much less Florida, that get lots of tourists. not saying i'm an expert, but i can distinguish what the average guest at the parks are.

they come with their kids wearing tacky Disney t-shirts that you can tell they literally just bought. they're loud, obnoxious, RUDE (sdfhfksj don't get me started on their rudeness) and get on the ride with their kids despite the fact that they aren't supposed to bring a specific one on. and for some reason Space Mountain is the one i see it the most with :lookaroun i dont even know why.

they're also, a lot of times, the ones who are completely ignorant of Disney and act as everything is new to them. there was this lady once who almost took her obvious 2-year-old onto Dinosaur. she thought it was a movie and turned to her and was like "um, ma'am...this is a scary dark ride..." she turned around and walked off.

i've been to Disney and lived in Miami long enough to know who the average park guest is. the average guest, doesn't care about the specificity you are all getting into. they go to Disney to let their kids go crazy on Dumbo or the carousel.

I believe that some around here are misusing the term "average" over and over again. It is true that the "average" guest arrives with more than zero kids. This is a mathematical must. Why?, because some arrive with zero kids, and some with more than zero. Nobody can have negative kids and balance things out, so it is correct to say that the "average" guest has more than zero kids. Of course, the average is probably something like .8 kids, which no person actually has, but that's another story.

J03Y, you've been using "average" when what you mean is "most common". For example, the "average" guest cannot be completely ignorant, because while many guests may know nothing, some will know a little, and some an awful lot. The "average" amount of knowledge is, therefore, more than zero -- again, mathematically. Similarly, the "average" guest cannot have just bought their Disney clothing. Some will have just bought it, and some will have bought it long ago, and some will not have Disney clothing at all. Therefore, the "average" guest will not have just bought Disney clothing.

It seems, though, that you believe that the type of guest that is most common (by the way, this is called the "mode", a less commonly usesd term in statistics) at the parks has kids, and is rude, ignorant, etc. Perhaps, and something to discuss. I don't agree, but I suspect others would.

But when you trumpet your intimate knowledge of Disney guests and Walt's purposes, while displaying your unwillingness ("Don't tell me") to hear otherwise and using terms with actual meanings inappropriately, you get negative reactions from the "average" readers of this forum.




Ok, that was sort of fun. But back to the OP's question. Most around here just like to talk Disney. I love all the Disney parks (that I've been to) and plan to go to each one again and again even if they don't get any better. But I certainly see plenty of what I consider to be missed opportunities. And I complain about them, not because I don't like what's there, but because I want it to be even better, and I think I see how it could be (or could have been) even better.

Like my Detroit Tigers, who swept the (Red Sox) Nation this weekend. It was a glorious start to the season, but when I talk about it with friends, we talk about the great comeback yesterday, the blowout win Saturday, Verlander's shutout 8 innings on Thursday, and the terrible collapses of the bullpen Thursday and Sunday and the terrible outing by starting pitcher Max Sherzer on Sunday. We don't talk about the failures because we don't like the team, but because we hope and think it can be better.

In any event, I think that's what goes on around here, when we see the negative talk. The fact that we're here pretty much acknowlegdes the good stuff, and maybe we don't talk about it as much. We talk about the stuff the could be better because we wish it was even better, and because there aren't many places we can even have such a conversation. For example, I can discuss how great a ride Toy Story Mania is with anybody who has visited DHS in the past few years. But very few know anything about the dear-departed Luxo animatronic that used to be right across the way. So I discuss my disappointment about the missing Luxo here, where I can.

Ok, that was fun, too.

 

[J03Y]

Not supposed to bring a specific child? Children not supposed to bring a specific parent? Are random parents supposed to take random children on the rides, and then do some kind of square dance at the end so every kid leaves with the grownup whut brung 'em?

as in they bring a baby onto Space Mountain. seriously. i've seen that. every time i tell them they can't bring the baby on and every time they look at me like i don't know what i'm saying.

and where the heck did you get the square dancing from

So it's a place that's geared for kids and everyone knows it, and they prove it by bringing children on rides that are inappropriate for their ages. That makes all the sense in the HUH?

again. what?

oh, yeah. my bad. Peter Pan is sooo inappropriate what do you mean?

The only "specificity" anyone is getting into is that WDW is a place that's not strictly geared for children. It's got elements that are kid-specific, but even you acknowledge there are elements that aren't for kids, yet you're making it out to be the world's largest & most expensive Ikea ball pit...but you're hilarious while you do it.

the majority of Disney World is kid-specific. that's what the majority of it is and primarily it's supposed to entertain the kids. however, yes there are the specific things also for grown-ups, but really you can count on one hand what those are. the number of things for the kids to do is nearly countless. and they're in all the parks.
[/QUOTE]

 

[J03Y]

OKAY.

i'm done with backtalking as if YOU all are smart people and know more than anyone about everything. you don't. you don't know people, equally as much as i do, which i did say i wasn't an expert. i never claimed to know everything and i actually don't want to refer myself as a know-it-all. because i don't.

all i said was that Disney's demographic is pleasing kids, therefore attractions come and go based on the demographic whose interests fade and what people want to see become different.

that was all i wanted to say, but apparently we're all sensitive on the subject. next time, i should have a warning when i'm treading on a very nit-picky subject.

i'm done. that's where it ends. DON'T quote my post because, unfortunately for you lot, i'm not going to look at the thread again. and yes, i mean i'm not looking at the thread again.

thanks, goodbye, aspiring individuals. :sohappy:

 

[GLaDOS]

I know I said I was done but I can't help myself.

however, yes there are the specific things also for grown-ups, but really you can count on one hand what those are.

Splash Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Hall of Presidents, Tower of Terror, Rock'N'RollerCoaster, Star Tours, Great Movie Ride, American Idol Experience, Toy Story Mania, Mission: Space, Test Track, Soarin', Spaceship Earth, Living with the Land, Spaceship Earth, American Adventure, Impressions of France, Maelstrom, Reflections of China, O'Canada, Expedition Everest, Dinosaur, kali River Rapids, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Primeval Whirl, Drinking Around the World, the various bars and high class restaurants around the resort, golf, mini golf, water sports, Jellyrolls, Atlantic Dance Hall, etc.

I guess you could count them all with one hand if you had a ton of fingers...

 

[misterID]

Do you have to let it linger. Do you have to? Do you have to?
The Cranberries

So far this thread has produced quotes of Alanis Morissette and Cranberries songs. Sort of like "I Love The 90's," except the comedy's unintentional.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I remember as a teen seeing two classmates come to blows discussing "Van Halen vs. Van Hagar."
Until that day, that was the silliest argument I ever witnessed in any form - verbal, written, live, broadcast - ever.

So, congratulations to all involved. You're now in the lead by a country mile and I'm far too old to witness many more moments like these. This is the record I think will stick. Kudos. :wave:

This thread does to my sanity what Sammy did to Van Halen!

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Well...

It is true that the MK was not at all intended or build as a kiddie park
...however...
It is true that most people perceive of it as a kiddie park.



This has two sad consequences:
A - Many people don't visit because they think Disney is for children.
B - Many people do visit because they think Disney is for children.

'A' is a lot of my friends, whom I've never managed to convince to go. Who can blame them? They take Disney's word for it when it nearly exclusively advertises WDW as a destination for families with small children.
'B' are all those parents who thought that the MK was a kiddie park, only to discoveer that it wasn't build for their young ones. To please these very people, the MK is slowly being transformed into 'Toddler Cartoon Park'.

Since 'A' stays away but 'B' is omnipresent at the guest surveys, WDW/the MK is being transformed to cater to them. Indeed, the very reason for the FLE is the inability of the MK to cater to this horde of small children, for which it wasnt build but who come in droves, what Iger decribed as 'the smallest guests now wait in the longest lines for the briefest experiences'.

To tie this all in with the original subject of this thread: one of my main gripes with modern Disney is this dumbing down, this catering to the smallest guests, the destruction of mature entertainment, in an effort to transform the MK into the Toddler Paradise people mistake it for. But we are approaching a tipping point where they are no longer mistaken. At some point in the near future the MK will have been fully transformed into an infantile Toddler Kingdom. Just look at the playgrounds and the clowns and primary colours of the new Circusland.

 

[slappy magoo]

OKAY.

i'm done with backtalking as if YOU all are smart people and know more than anyone about everything. you don't. you don't know people, equally as much as i do, which i did say i wasn't an expert. i never claimed to know everything and i actually don't want to refer myself as a know-it-all. because i don't.

Just because YOU'RE wrong about this doesn't mean everyone's wrong about everything. You do everyone a disservice by implying that's what we're saying.

all i said was that Disney's demographic is pleasing kids, therefore attractions come and go based on the demographic whose interests fade and what people want to see become different.

And all we've said is that you're very very wrong. In fact, this sentence of yours alone proves how wrong you are, because if it were all about pleasing kids, they wouldn't need to bother innovating anything, because as current kids get too old to enjoy WDW, a new generation comes along for whom all this stuff is new. There'd be much less of a need for attractions to "come and go."

that was all i wanted to say, but apparently we're all sensitive on the subject. next time, i should have a warning when i'm treading on a very nit-picky subject.

Or, when people prove you wrong, you don't have to be as much of an insufferable pantload. But if you insist on being an insufferable pantload, don't be surprised if people treat you like an insufferable pantload.

i'm done. that's where it ends. DON'T quote my post because, unfortunately for you lot, i'm not going to look at the thread again. and yes, i mean i'm not looking at the thread again.

thanks, goodbye, aspiring individuals. :sohappy:

Quite frankly, the hole you've dug is so deep, I'm surprised you still get wifi down there. But if you want to pretend you're never ever going to look at this thread again, who am I to deny you that joy? After all, it's not like you're an "average visitor" to Disney and I'm telling you to stop enjoying yourself because you're not a child or anything. :shrug:

 

[disney fan 13]

Damn this thread is entertaining, why do you guys keep wasting your breath on the troll? Some people don't see it ( mainly because of disney PR but thats a different story for a different time )

 

[real mad hatter]

Montrose.

This thread does to my sanity what Sammy did to Van Halen!

Well in the days gone bye,I was working at the Apollo theatre in Glasgow and this band were playing,Sammy Hagar,who i said,you mean " Bad Motor Scooter". we had a bottle of something called " Old Crow " and the rest of the night was history.I still sing his " Falling in Love " in my set.:wave:

 

[slappy magoo]

This thread does to my sanity what Sammy did to Van Halen!

Your sanity is a ruined sellout? :lookaroun


Awwwwww, SNAP!

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Your sanity is a ruined sellout? :lookaroun


Awwwwww, SNAP!

'Ruined sellout' is my middle name.



It would be a fitting title for today's WDW too.

 

[disney fan 13]

Well I can't speak for the others but me I get paid by Universal to slag off Disney on social media.

Nice to see another social media plant around these parts. though i'm from that Sea park down the road.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Nice to see another social media plant around these parts. though i'm from that Sea park down the road.

Joey...is that you again!?

I knew it, I just knew it! :sohappy:

 

[slappy magoo]

And I've gotta admit, I found the OP kinda trollish, but the ramblings of J03Y were so entertaining, I forgot about it entirely. As others have said, I think a lot of negative comments come from people who think WDW is not only not living up to its potential, but that its management actively prevents that potential is being realized, as if it wasn't worth it from a dollars-and-cents standpoint to make things awesome if people are showing up for "meh, good enough." So when an interesting and innovative (and dare I say "grownup") attraction like Alien Encounter is replaced with Stitch's Great Escape because some people found it too scary...well, fine the people who thought it was too scary before might like it now, but the people who liked it before now find it lame. You're not attracting a new audience while keeping the old, you're just trading audiences (and it's still an attraction whose harness frightens many of the smaller kids).

When resort-specific mugs are replaced with generic everywhere-you-look mugs...well, for people who use those mugs as a memento to where they stayed and when, and not just as a mug, that's one less thing to make their trip unique, and whatever the money saved by making the mugs uniform, I'd bet lots of repeat guests would pay those extra few cents for a resort specific mug to be made available.

When upkeep is lacking, when rides have missing elements to them, when the parks look filthy, when there's something worth complaining about, why SHOULDN'T people complain? Maybe, if we're lucky, someone will listen and do something about it. And I don't mean "something" as in "throw us a few extra fastpasses or a discount on Mouse Ears, I mean see if our complaints have merit and want to fix them.