A Flap in the Right Direction

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Oh, they ABSOLUTELY are. When I was there, they were counting crazy things as "attractions" just to boost the numbers. Things like the old-fashioned car that went up and down mainstreet. And the glass-blower. Stuff like that. I'm trying to remember what else, because it's been a while... But they made me laugh, I'll tell you that.

But the park needs major help. If I can find a picture I took of the hub, I'll post it.


Actually, you have to give them the old cars ... those are considered attractions at every MK park.

What I found so galling, so ballsey ... so we're Disney and we can do whatever we effing want and everyone will grovel at our Mouse's feet ... was saying things like City Hall and Liki Tikis were attractions ... and calling the rafts to Tarzan's Treehouse and the Treehouse seperate attractions.

I was talking to a Pixar pal last night and the conversation turned to HKDL and I was asked how many attractions are there really in the park ... I used my fingers and counted 17 (including both Golden Mickeys and Lion King shows because they are E-Ticket caliber) ... after I realized I hadn't included the Animation Academy on Main Street, but didn't feel so bad because I gave them Fantasia Gardens, which is simply a nicely landscaped meet-greet-and-grope, and Sleeping Beauty Castle, which is a setpiece completely with no attraction in HK.

I think when this expansion is done they'll have a legit 20-25 attractions, which when you add their wonderful entertainment and getting the Disney Details will make it a worthy MK.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
You could do a lot to support your position by saying what the proof will be, and when it's coming. I think in the past a lot of your claims are met with skepticism simply because you speak in incredibly vague terms (which, is why I asked about specifics in Liberty Square). It seems to be your prerogative to convince people that the tide's are turning, or have turned, which is a significant departure from the recent past, yet you tend to offer little or no proof and then label the folks who don't believe you as Doom and Gloomers. Can you blame them? You haven't given them any reason to believe you. If someone told me that the bus I take to work, that is eerily on-time to the minute every day, will be late tomorrow, but didn't offer why or give any other explanation, simply saying "trust me", I'd have no choice but to be skeptical. If this person were on an internet forum telling me this, I'd have (if it were possible) even fewer reasons to believe them.

The Liberty Square news is heartening, but perspective is needed. The place has been neglected, so regular maintenance and refurbishments isn't the strongest data point to indicate a trend back toward excellence. I share the hope of everyone of this board (afterall, why else are they here?) that that is what we'll see. Right now, there's virtually no reason to believe what you're saying. I hope you'll view this simply as what it is, and not a personal attack, because it's not. I want a reason to believe you.

Why? Why would you want a reason to believe someone who makes things up as they go and acts as the defacto troll of the site?

I want WDW to be as great as it can be, but I need it to be proven ... and by Disney, not by anyone here ... even the people I respect greatly.

Rehabbing and painting are simple things that any Disney fan, guest, CM or shareholder should expect. No one should do happy dances because there are buildings wrapped in scrims.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Here's a picture of the hub in HK I took on a Friday afternoon in the Spring. I was literally 1 of about 12 people in the entire hub.

Attendance is/was CLEARLY a problem, and it's why it's getting massive expansion.

picture.php


Sure, attendance has been an issue. Considering what the place lacks that shouldn't be surprising.

That said, and everyone here knows I am no Disney apologist, I spent a day there last August and didn't manage to to everything in one day. I did see both shows and both parades. I did look in shops. I did take a 90-minute break at the HKDL Hotel. But I still missed out on a good 4-5 attractions (no Pooh, Tea Cups, Dumbo ... and Stitch Encounter) ... BUT I also did Space Mountain five times and Small World twice.

My only point is that I disagree with the notion that it is a park that's good for 4-6 hours, much like I disagree with it when it is tossed out about DAK.

If all you want to do is hit every attraction once on an uncrowded day (my day was moderate as it was summer) and leave the parades, pyro, shops and shows then I am sure you could everything in 5-6 hours easily.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
It was a Friday in March of 08. It was sort of weird... Almost like "bizzaro Disneyland". The people were nice, but some of it didn't translate very well... The Jungle Cruise, for example. Their SM is fine... They have an all electric autopia that was fine. Buzz was Buzz. Fantasyland was beautiful (as was the whole park), they had the Lion King show which was the same. That was really about it for attractions. That's all they've got. There's the train... And Small World wasn't opened yet. I literally had seen the whole place in less than 3 hours. I rode each ride multiple times, and STILL was ready to be done hours before closing... But I had to stick around for the fireworks show. :cool:

I think we've had this discussion before and not sure whether I'll be responding as I'm off to WDW shortly but ... I don't see how it was possible to do every attraction multiple times in three hours unless you skipped both shows that are 30 minutes each ... and likely skipped Stitch Encounter as well (just finding a show in English can cause you to spend more time.

I also greatly enjoyed their take on JC, even if my skipper had less than perfect English ... she was cute and very into it. And the new take is certainly enjoyable. Space Mountain is the best version in the world right now because Paris will cause a brain bleed and Anaheim (which has the same track layout) is missing about half the effects. Small World was also terrific despite the characters (I feel they fit in HK a lot more than Anaheim).

And the LK show? I thought it was worlds better than ORlando's tired old DL parade floats and people trying to make the audience a part of the show.

What was "bizzaro" about it?

How small it was. It took less than a minute (EASILY) to walk from one side to the other.

The mountains behind it. It was just different... Kinda cool... But dwarfed the castle even more than it already was. You definitely knew you "weren't in Kansas anymore".

OK, this definitely sounds like a discussion we had. I honestly don't see how you could walk from one side to the park to the other in a minute. The park may be small, but that's just very strange to me. Now, there were a whole lot more people in the park when I was there, so that may play a factor. I'm sure I could walk around the World Showcase Lagoon in a fraction of what I normally do if no one was actually there!

And the mountains were just so beautiful. Pics don't do it justice. It is an incredible lush environment.


The food. Hoo boy. The food. Really not good for a Westerner, that's for sure. They may have loved it, and good for them. But man, it was bad. Comparatively, TDL's food was UNBELIEVEABLE. So it wasn't just the cultural difference that had me not liking it at all. Funny sight: walking up to what you think is a popcorn cart in the hub, but they're really selling pickled squid. :slurp::hurl:

I'm going to disagree with you firmly here (and almost everyone I know who has visited and written about it seems to agree with me).

The food I thought was excellent. And at fair price points. Western food is available at the Corner Cafe on Main Street, one of the T-Land eateries is strictly a burgers and chicken fingers place and the Royal Banquet Hall (where I dined) is basically an international food court. I had pizza and my companion had pasta and we were both very pleased.

I also had dinner at Tahitian Terrace (Chinese cuisine) and it was very good.

Another night we went back to shop and check out the hotels more closely and had the 'Supper Buffet' at Chef Mickey's, which was phenomenal. Mostly Chinese (probably 75/25) cuisine, but all very, very good.

The park/resort may have issues but I don't see food being one of them.

I knew when I was there that it was either going to have to massively expand, or it was in trouble. That's part of why I bought a limited edition gold coin from opening day they had there. Either it would be a success and I'd have an opening day souvenier, or I'd have an opening day souvenier from the first failed Disney park in the world! :lol:

Talking to people there, there was a competing park not far away (can't recall the name) that everyone went to because it was chock full of thrill rides, and didn't cost as much to get in. See, over there, Disney can't rely on nostalgia to bring people in. That's a good thing.


That's Ocean Park you're thinking of. When I go back to HK, if I have time I may check it out. But from what I understand it was largely a dump until Disney announced it was coming and then it expanded greatly (it was always the local park) ... and between more rides, much larger size, pandas and sea life, it's a much fuller experience than Disney right now.

But it's funny your story about the coin. When I went they just had put out the third anniversary merchandise and I stocked up, but I also noticed they still had first anniversary pins and keychains at one of the hotels and I grabbed a bunch of those for friends back home!
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Why? Why would you want a reason to believe someone who makes things up as they go and acts as the defacto troll of the site?

Wrong-o. :lol:

I want WDW to be as great as it can be, but I need it to be proven ... and by Disney, not by anyone here ... even the people I respect greatly.

You respect only the reflection in the mirror.

Rehabbing and painting are simple things that any Disney fan, guest, CM or shareholder should expect. No one should do happy dances because there are buildings wrapped in scrims.

:sohappy: *happy dance*
 

markjohns1

Member
Why? Why would you want a reason to believe someone who makes things up as they go and acts as the defacto troll of the site?

I want WDW to be as great as it can be, but I need it to be proven ... and by Disney, not by anyone here ... even the people I respect greatly.

Rehabbing and painting are simple things that any Disney fan, guest, CM or shareholder should expect. No one should do happy dances because there are buildings wrapped in scrims.
I can't speak for fyn, but I want to believe him because I want him to be right. He speaks about positive things coming, and I hope it's true. It has nothing to do with his posting style for me. Just like I hope you're not right regarding nothing of substance coming to WDW anytime soon. It's nothing personal.
My only point is that I disagree with the notion that it is a park that's good for 4-6 hours, much like I disagree with it when it is tossed out about DAK.
I agree with your disagreement. Such an underappreciated park.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
You are kidding I hope. :lookaroun
I most certainly am not, jt.
I think we've had this discussion before and not sure whether I'll be responding as I'm off to WDW shortly but ... I don't see how it was possible to do every attraction multiple times in three hours unless you skipped both shows that are 30 minutes each ... and likely skipped Stitch Encounter as well (just finding a show in English can cause you to spend more time.

I also greatly enjoyed their take on JC, even if my skipper had less than perfect English ... she was cute and very into it. And the new take is certainly enjoyable. Space Mountain is the best version in the world right now because Paris will cause a brain bleed and Anaheim (which has the same track layout) is missing about half the effects. Small World was also terrific despite the characters (I feel they fit in HK a lot more than Anaheim).

And the LK show? I thought it was worlds better than ORlando's tired old DL parade floats and people trying to make the audience a part of the show.



OK, this definitely sounds like a discussion we had. I honestly don't see how you could walk from one side to the park to the other in a minute. The park may be small, but that's just very strange to me. Now, there were a whole lot more people in the park when I was there, so that may play a factor. I'm sure I could walk around the World Showcase Lagoon in a fraction of what I normally do if no one was actually there!

And the mountains were just so beautiful. Pics don't do it justice. It is an incredible lush environment.




I'm going to disagree with you firmly here (and almost everyone I know who has visited and written about it seems to agree with me).

The food I thought was excellent. And at fair price points. Western food is available at the Corner Cafe on Main Street, one of the T-Land eateries is strictly a burgers and chicken fingers place and the Royal Banquet Hall (where I dined) is basically an international food court. I had pizza and my companion had pasta and we were both very pleased.

I also had dinner at Tahitian Terrace (Chinese cuisine) and it was very good.

Another night we went back to shop and check out the hotels more closely and had the 'Supper Buffet' at Chef Mickey's, which was phenomenal. Mostly Chinese (probably 75/25) cuisine, but all very, very good.

The park/resort may have issues but I don't see food being one of them.




That's Ocean Park you're thinking of. When I go back to HK, if I have time I may check it out. But from what I understand it was largely a dump until Disney announced it was coming and then it expanded greatly (it was always the local park) ... and between more rides, much larger size, pandas and sea life, it's a much fuller experience than Disney right now.

But it's funny your story about the coin. When I went they just had put out the third anniversary merchandise and I stocked up, but I also noticed they still had first anniversary pins and keychains at one of the hotels and I grabbed a bunch of those for friends back home!

It's interesting to hear you gush about HKDL, when most people find that it has flaws.:lol:

If there was one thing that you can think of, right off the bat that made you like it, what was it? Not trying to be facetious, but usually the first answer is the big one.:lol:
 

fyn

Member
I can't speak for fyn, but I want to believe him because I want him to be right. He speaks about positive things coming, and I hope it's true. It has nothing to do with his posting style for me. Just like I hope you're not right regarding nothing of substance coming to WDW anytime soon. It's nothing personal.

Precisely. Who wouldn't want to believe there's someone in a position of significant authority within TWDC whose personal mission is to restore excellence to WDW?

Personally, I (and, I'm an optimist to a fault) don't believe JT. He's just not convincing.
 

krankenstein

Well-Known Member
Personally, I (and, I'm an optimist to a fault) don't believe JT. He's just not convincing.

Same here. If you could get a clear answer to a question instead of some misdirection talk from him it would be helpful. As it is, he seems like a magician. He's trying to get you to look at his right hand while the left hand is actually doing the trick. :shrug:
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Same here. If you could get a clear answer to a question instead of some misdirection talk from him it would be helpful. As it is, he seems like a magician. He's trying to get you to look at his right hand while the left hand is actually doing the trick. :shrug:

Maybe it's a lasso trick, ala "The Sheriff":lookaroun:lol:
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
Sure, attendance has been an issue. Considering what the place lacks that shouldn't be surprising.

That said, and everyone here knows I am no Disney apologist, I spent a day there last August and didn't manage to to everything in one day. I did see both shows and both parades. I did look in shops. I did take a 90-minute break at the HKDL Hotel. But I still missed out on a good 4-5 attractions (no Pooh, Tea Cups, Dumbo ... and Stitch Encounter) ... BUT I also did Space Mountain five times and Small World twice.

My only point is that I disagree with the notion that it is a park that's good for 4-6 hours, much like I disagree with it when it is tossed out about DAK.

If all you want to do is hit every attraction once on an uncrowded day (my day was moderate as it was summer) and leave the parades, pyro, shops and shows then I am sure you could everything in 5-6 hours easily.

Yeah, everyone knows about the attendance thing. I just wanted to show an example to the folks here who maybe wondered just how quiet the place can be.

I did see LK... I didn't see GM. I had seen both before, and didn't really care to see GM again. And you're right, I didn't see Turtle Talk with Stitch. But Buzz, Autopia, and SM together probably took me 20 minutes total... That's all of tomorrowland, in 20 minutes.

I did check out the shops and so forth... That's what I did in the evening before the fireworks. I guess knowing that I only had one day there, I wanted to make sure I got all the attractions in that I wanted to, and then did my shopping in the couple hours before the fireworks. But you're right... When I say 3 hours, that's probably a little strong. Didn't take into account the couple things I chose not to do, and strolling through shops and such. Small World wasn't open yet either. And there was only one parade the day I was there.
 

Buried20KLeague

Well-Known Member
I think we've had this discussion before and not sure whether I'll be responding as I'm off to WDW shortly but ... I don't see how it was possible to do every attraction multiple times in three hours unless you skipped both shows that are 30 minutes each ... and likely skipped Stitch Encounter as well (just finding a show in English can cause you to spend more time.

I also greatly enjoyed their take on JC, even if my skipper had less than perfect English ... she was cute and very into it. And the new take is certainly enjoyable. Space Mountain is the best version in the world right now because Paris will cause a brain bleed and Anaheim (which has the same track layout) is missing about half the effects. Small World was also terrific despite the characters (I feel they fit in HK a lot more than Anaheim).

And the LK show? I thought it was worlds better than ORlando's tired old DL parade floats and people trying to make the audience a part of the show.



OK, this definitely sounds like a discussion we had. I honestly don't see how you could walk from one side to the park to the other in a minute. The park may be small, but that's just very strange to me. Now, there were a whole lot more people in the park when I was there, so that may play a factor. I'm sure I could walk around the World Showcase Lagoon in a fraction of what I normally do if no one was actually there!

And the mountains were just so beautiful. Pics don't do it justice. It is an incredible lush environment.




I'm going to disagree with you firmly here (and almost everyone I know who has visited and written about it seems to agree with me).

The food I thought was excellent. And at fair price points. Western food is available at the Corner Cafe on Main Street, one of the T-Land eateries is strictly a burgers and chicken fingers place and the Royal Banquet Hall (where I dined) is basically an international food court. I had pizza and my companion had pasta and we were both very pleased.

I also had dinner at Tahitian Terrace (Chinese cuisine) and it was very good.

Another night we went back to shop and check out the hotels more closely and had the 'Supper Buffet' at Chef Mickey's, which was phenomenal. Mostly Chinese (probably 75/25) cuisine, but all very, very good.

The park/resort may have issues but I don't see food being one of them.




That's Ocean Park you're thinking of. When I go back to HK, if I have time I may check it out. But from what I understand it was largely a dump until Disney announced it was coming and then it expanded greatly (it was always the local park) ... and between more rides, much larger size, pandas and sea life, it's a much fuller experience than Disney right now.

But it's funny your story about the coin. When I went they just had put out the third anniversary merchandise and I stocked up, but I also noticed they still had first anniversary pins and keychains at one of the hotels and I grabbed a bunch of those for friends back home!

I liked the JC as well, as far as appearance and everything. The guide was rough... I maybe could make out about 30 words the whole ride, one of which was "muzzah-in-raw", which just cracked me up, and got me stared at the rest of the ride. :lol: I just found it funny that they were using a mother-in-law joke that I was sure nobody understood. Also, there was someone sitting right next to the skipper with a clipboard taking notes and critiquing the entire time. That bugged me, and definitely broke the "reality" of it. I didn't really "get" the last scene, but so be it. No harm done.

I would disagree with you on Space Mountain. The ride was great. But the fact that there's basically ZERO que really bothered me. You walk in the door and BAM! there's your rocket ship. Other than that, loved it.

As for walking the park... My family always complains that I'm 5 steps ahead of them. I definitely walk at a pretty good clip. But if I can throw a baseball literally probably twice and go from one end to the other, that's tiny. BEAUTIFUL... But tiny. I mean, compare that to DLP (the next most recently built MK style park) and the difference is immeasurable. Literally.

My food experience consisted of the burger place in T-land (EEK!) and a pizza at the bar of the hollywood themed hotel after the fireworks. Neither were good. Admittedly, I didn't try a few of the places you did. I was checking out menus of places as I went, curious as to what was offered, and didn't see a whole lot I was dying to try. I guess I was comparing it to TDL, where even the counter service stuff is better (MUCH better at times) than even here in the States. That was my barometer.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Yeah, everyone knows about the attendance thing. I just wanted to show an example to the folks here who maybe wondered just how quiet the place can be.

I did see LK... I didn't see GM. I had seen both before, and didn't really care to see GM again. And you're right, I didn't see Turtle Talk with Stitch. But Buzz, Autopia, and SM together probably took me 20 minutes total... That's all of tomorrowland, in 20 minutes.

I did check out the shops and so forth... That's what I did in the evening before the fireworks. I guess knowing that I only had one day there, I wanted to make sure I got all the attractions in that I wanted to, and then did my shopping in the couple hours before the fireworks. But you're right... When I say 3 hours, that's probably a little strong. Didn't take into account the couple things I chose not to do, and strolling through shops and such. Small World wasn't open yet either. And there was only one parade the day I was there.
Do you have an opinion on the Fireworks Show? From vids that I've seen it looks stunning, from the pyro, to the music, to the lighting...:D:eek:
 

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