5th Park Opening in Time for WDW's 50th (Jim Hill)

[HauntedPirate]

It's been said time and time again - they can't even dream about a 5th gate until they fix the other problems abound. Like the lack of a new E-ticket at MGM... or at Epcot. Fix the fact that both MGM and AK are half-day parks, at best, for most. You get a pass with MK because of the FL Expansion. For now.

And I know you're trying to "Potterize" AK with Avatar, but it's 3+ years away and I fear that this project is not going to be the home run you're aiming for, more like a double. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[JustInTime]

I don't want another park yet. I don't know if I could handle it.


But I do think it would be cool to have DisneyCity. It could be our own spin on DisneySea but have it themed on American Cities. And it could have attractions based on what that City is known for.

 

[_Scar]

I don't want another park yet. I don't know if I could handle it.


But I do think it would be cool to have DisneyCity. It could be our own spin on DisneySea but have it themed on American Cities. And it could have attractions based on what that City is known for.

[youtube]oZzgAjjuqZM[/youtube]

 

[drew_dawg]

I have zero credibility also, but I say revisit the Disney America park! You want to do something amazing bring back in talk Disney America where Disney can hit a core with America (even though Disney is international) Walt was very patriotic and it would be a great boost to the company and the nation.

 

[AEfx]

I have zero credibility also, but I say revisit the Disney America park! You want to do something amazing bring back in talk Disney America where Disney can hit a core with America (even though Disney is international) Walt was very patriotic and it would be a great boost to the company and the nation.

The problem with that project, like it always has been, is what version of history you present.

They can get away with glossing over the not-so-inspiring stuff and the controversial stuff in single attractions like Hall of Presidents and American Adventure, but an entire park would have a hard time with that in 2011 where anyone can look up the "real" story on Wikipedia and the public largely knows better.

I mean, if they show George Washington growing up, are they going to show the slaves he owned in the background (starting at age 11 he owned 100+ slaves)? Or that he was the guy that signed into law that only white people were citizens? Do we portray Columbus as a heroic explorer looking for the new world, or do they show him as someone looking for an economic trade route to Asia who captured people and kept them as slaves? (And, no, he didn't discover the world was not flat - it was already pretty common knowledge at the time, in spite of what Sesame Street says.) Or the whole "Thanksgiving" fairy tale?

The truth is, our history is rather ugly in parts, just as ugly as it is magnificent in other places. I mean, look what Disney does to the Civil War in American Adventure - they gloss it over with a song/film montage. It wasn't even that long ago (comparatively) but anyone who has studied any actual history can tell you it was brutal, and yes, our great-great-great-great grandparents were killing each other right here in the U.S.

If they did the whitewashed version, whats the point, as we know it's not accurate (it amazes me that they still taught the white-wash version in school when I was a kid in the 80's) - and if they did the real version, people would just get upset and it would be very un-Disney. Many people like to think it's been all honky-dory since the Mayflower, but it was a jagged road with millions of brutal, senseless deaths along with it.

It's just not theme park material if you get any deeper than the attractions they already have. I've always believed that was the real reason it never got built - if Disney had really wanted it, they would have found another spot to put it. But I've always assumed someone thought better of it, as it was being developed at a time where the realities of our history were finally becoming somewhat public knowledge beyond the halls of academia.

I love my country, but you gotta love it warts and all - and Disney isn't exactly known for that.

 

[wvdisneyfamily]

I am not in favor of a fifth gate until gates three and four are more developed. There's room for awesome expansion at AK and the Studios. Avatar will be a start for AK, but it's not enough. The Studios needs more whole family (little kids on up to grandparents) rides. Toy Story is really it. Epcot still needs sone developing, too.

 

[NoChesterHester]

I really hope that there is a 5th park sooner or later. I'd love to see something similar to, if not DisneySea. Not everyone can make it all the way to Japan to visit that park so it'd be nice to have it State side too.

Some people would prefer something more original rather than a clone park, I know. However, just look at how Disneyland, Tokyo Disneyland, the Magic Kingdom (WDW), Disneyland Paris and Hong Kong Disneyland are all doing extremely well... they're practically the same park. :kiss:

Alright... if they announce Disney Sea for Orlando I take back everything I've ever said about clones and fixing what you got first....

Not happening though.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

The problem with that project, like it always has been, is what version of history you present.

They can get away with glossing over the not-so-inspiring stuff and the controversial stuff in single attractions like Hall of Presidents and American Adventure, but an entire park would have a hard time with that in 2011 where anyone can look up the "real" story on Wikipedia and the public largely knows better.

I mean, if they show George Washington growing up, are they going to show the slaves he owned in the background (starting at age 11 he owned 100+ slaves)? Or that he was the guy that signed into law that only white people were citizens? Do we portray Columbus as a heroic explorer looking for the new world, or do they show him as someone looking for an economic trade route to Asia who captured people and kept them as slaves? (And, no, he didn't discover the world was not flat - it was already pretty common knowledge at the time, in spite of what Sesame Street says.) Or the whole "Thanksgiving" fairy tale?

The truth is, our history is rather ugly in parts, just as ugly as it is magnificent in other places. I mean, look what Disney does to the Civil War in American Adventure - they gloss it over with a song/film montage. It wasn't even that long ago (comparatively) but anyone who has studied any actual history can tell you it was brutal, and yes, our great-great-great-great grandparents were killing each other right here in the U.S.

If they did the whitewashed version, whats the point, as we know it's not accurate (it amazes me that they still taught the white-wash version in school when I was a kid in the 80's) - and if they did the real version, people would just get upset and it would be very un-Disney. Many people like to think it's been all honky-dory since the Mayflower, but it was a jagged road with millions of brutal, senseless deaths along with it.

It's just not theme park material if you get any deeper than the attractions they already have. I've always believed that was the real reason it never got built - if Disney had really wanted it, they would have found another spot to put it. But I've always assumed someone thought better of it, as it was being developed at a time where the realities of our history were finally becoming somewhat public knowledge beyond the halls of academia.

I love my country, but you gotta love it warts and all - and Disney isn't exactly known for that.

Yes, that and I also think a significant portion of the experience was to be proto-Adventures By Disney tours to actual historical sites around DC. Can't do the same thing in Orlando.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

I really hope that there is a 5th park sooner or later. I'd love to see something similar to, if not DisneySea. Not everyone can make it all the way to Japan to visit that park so it'd be nice to have it State side too.

The problem here is that half the reason TDS is so good is because OLC actually spends the time, money, and effort to properly maintain the parks that they have.

TDS is probably as immersive, if not more so, as DAK and I fear that stateside it just would not be given the love and attention it deserves.

 

[CaptainShortty]

This is so weird, I had speculated ( just from off the top of my head type stuff ) the possibility that Disney could open another park ( in another thread ), a few days ago. I had heard ( rumors, and off the wall speculations ), that this could be something they ( Disney ) would do.
But with the FLE, and the AK addition, the next logical steps in my mind would have been , a DHS addition, and then maybe something at Epcot. Spruce up the existing parks for the 50th.
Anywho ... Is 10 years really enough time to plan and build a whole new gate? .. especially with everything else that is going on ...
Anyone have any idea how long it took to get AK from idea to open?? Just to get some perspective on how long it would take for another park to materialize... and how far from the actual opening would we ( the Disney nutjobs :lol::hammer: ) know that it ( or something )was happening?

Also... if they are planning it, that is ok with me

For all any of us know, they could already be working on it and could have been for years now. The blue sky stage of a project like a 5th park could have happened 5, 10 years ago and been put on the back burner because of the economy and other projects. Of course, none of us know for sure but just another idea to put out there.

 

[RSoxNo1]

This was a great contest on Imagineering Disney and the winning concept is something along the lines of what I could see as a fifth "park." The concept is an evening long experience that includes dinner, a ride, and an adventure tied along a singular story line.

Now "Villa Tempus" may be a little dark for Disney, but this type of evening long experience could really be something new.


http://www.imagineeringdisney.com/blog/2011/9/17/ride-concept-competition-winners.html

We had Mitch from ImagineeringDisney.com on our show to discuss this contest. There was some impressive concepts that people came up with:
Ride Concept Expo with Mitch

 

[NoChesterHester]

Night Kingdom (the niche concept) was supposed to mainly be marketed to corporations and those who could afford $300 a day tickets. Fortunately, (hopefully), that concept is dead.

Look at it this way: a ticket to a broadway show will cost you about $200 per ticket. It doesn't include dinner and lasts about two hours. If this niche park provided a customized highly interactive experience that lasted all afternoon /meeting evening wouldn't it be worth it?

We aren't talking a traditional theme park here. More like mystery theater that you experience, not just observe.

 

[Disaddict]

For all any of us know, they could already be working on it and could have been for years now. The blue sky stage of a project like a 5th park could have happened 5, 10 years ago and been put on the back burner because of the economy and other projects. Of course, none of us know for sure but just another idea to put out there.

In Modern Marvels: Walt Disney World one of the Imagineers stated that they have always have things that they are working on for 5 or 10 years out. They very well could have decided to build a 5th park back in 2005 or 2006 when they did the overhaul of the dining and ticket structures and just haven't gotten around to building it yet. I think some people tend to forget that Disney doesn't have a press release the moment they decide to do something.

 

[Disaddict]

Look at it this way: a ticket to a broadway show will cost you about $200 per ticket. It doesn't include dinner and lasts about two hours. If this niche park provided a customized highly interactive experience that lasted all afternoon /meeting evening wouldn't it be worth it?

We aren't talking a traditional theme park here. More like mystery theater that you experience, not just observe.

If La Nouba can generate the sales they do for the short show they have with the insane ticket prices they charge then yes, the niche park could work, and work well. Will I be going to it? No. But I'm willing to bet that there are tons that would.

 

[CaptainShortty]

In Modern Marvels: Walt Disney World one of the Imagineers stated that they have always have things that they are working on for 5 or 10 years out. They very well could have decided to build a 5th park back in 2005 or 2006 when they did the overhaul of the dining and ticket structures and just haven't gotten around to building it yet. I think some people tend to forget that Disney doesn't have a press release the moment they decide to do something.

Yup, I totally agree with ya. Love that Modern Marvels episode too!

 

[Thrill]

how about a park based on different genre's of books?

each land can be a different genre.. for instance...

kids storybooks can be for the younger children section where you can have rides, shows, m&g's with different characters from kids books.. like where the wild things are dark ride...

mythologyland.. for more of the teen/adult people with the same having rides, shows and so on based off of some of the great mythology stories.. have a mt. olympus rollercoaster ride... hercules can be a m&g here. etc.

then you can have your horror/thriller section where you can have another haunted mansion type ride.. where the disney villians can have their land...

sci-fi land for your more tron, outer space type of rides, shows an so on...

You hit an issue in that sci-fi crosses with Tomorrowland and that children's books tends to cross with Fantasyland.

However, mythology might be able to carry a park on its own. They could have areas for Roman/Greek mythology, Mayan/Aztec/Incan mythology, Norse myth, and so on and so forth, all themed to their areas of origin with shows and rides themed after myth. So it would be kinda like a World Showcase, Tokyo DisneySea type thing, except oriented around myth. Only issue is that I'm averse to a Disney-style Hercules in the park. The myth is so much more different (Hades isn't the villain, for one). Though putting the actual myth in the park probably wouldn't go over too well, as it's a bit on the graphic side. Which is probably the main issue with a myth-based park.

But should such a park happen, an Odyssey E-Ticket would be absolutely excellent. Cut out some bits and pieces, and you're set.


Still, here's a post I made a couple days ago on the likelihood of a fifth gate. No discredit to Jim, again, as he knows actual information whereas all I can do is make assumptions, but, here it is:

Can't see it happening.

I have no insider knowledge, but with two parks widely considered underdeveloped, it makes more sense to concentrate development in those areas. 1 more park means more time on buses and in parking lots, and less time in shops and restaurants. That's less revenue. Granted, it's worthy of a sharp ticket price hike, but that's going to take an absolute fortune to build. Spend too little, and you have a weak park that's going to get ignored because there are better things to do. Spend too much, and you're going to be waiting a really, really long time before you recoup the investment.

Land restraints are quickly becoming an issue, as well. It might seem surprising, but when you sell of property to build Celebration and Golden Oaks, that tends to happen.

Maybe a fifth park can happen in the long run, but it's going to be a ways off. Still, I have a feeling that the WDW theme park market is saturated. There are enough parks. They can fill those parks out, but building another one is just going to cannibalize the other four.

Keep in mind, a new park brings not only the cost of the fifth gate, but also expansions elsewhere.

Let's say they build a cheapy fifth gate, DCA style. No one goes. Waste of money.

If they build a super expensive park like Tokyo DisneySea, what's going to happen is that people are going to drop parks like Animal Kingdom with lower attraction counts. Congratulations, they've just spent a ton of money and attendance increases resort-wide haven't justified it. Granted, all new parks are going to cut into attendance at the other four, but long term, they want to increase resort-wide attendance by a big enough number to justify a massive capital investment.


Now, like I said, I have zero inside information. There might be actual statistics on the inside that show that, yes, a fifth gate would be beneficial to the entire resort. Jim Hill would have a much clearer idea of what's going on on the inside, simply because he knows people and I don't. But rational thinking leads me to believe that a fifth gate is not in the near future, and probably not even in the long term picture.


Maybe I'm just not thinking of the right definition of a fifth gate.

A fifth gate would need to be like a Night Kingdom rather than a Magic Kingdom. For what it's worth, I believe a Reedy Creek Improvement District report said that there is a possibility of adding "minor parks" in the next 10 years. Minor parks as in the water parks and Wide World of Sports. I'll dig that up and see what it says.

EDIT: Table 2-1 in this report. The maximum development chart says that 1 major park could open between 2015 and 2020, and 2 minor parks between now and 2020. Now, this is maximum development, so that doesn't mean it will happen. In fact, it probably won't, because that chart says that across all areas of development, over 2,000 acres would be used. A table further down says that there are less than 1,500 acres undeveloped on the property.

 

[mp2bill]

I don't know how I feel about a fith gate. It'd be great for those within a couple hours driving, but for those of us who can only go down every couple of years for about a week at a time...there's already so much to do, I'd feel rushed if there was another park to visit.

 

[Disday]

A 10 year planning report from Reedy Creek in 2009 did call for 2 minor parks, but it also estimated a 5th major park by 2018.

 

[muse1983]

Chances are that they have had a new park in the works for years. Regardless if people like it or not, Disney is going to eventually utilize the Marvel brand in their parks and hopefully a new gate will be the home for it.

 

[Thrill]

Chances are that they have had a new park in the works for years. Regardless if people like it or not, Disney is going to eventually utilize the Marvel brand in their parks and hopefully a new gate will be the home for it.

Eventually, they will. But not at WDW until Universal gives them up.