5th gate anyone.......?

[marni1971]

The existing parks NEED to be cannibalized. That’s why they implemented reservations - there’s too many people.

There’s not too many people. They have a queue reservation system that’s failed miserably.

Reservations are a hold over from the pandemic now in the guise of being useful.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They can build the 5th park while getting the streaming division straightened out. That why they have multiple divisions lol.

The only thing stopping them from building more parks is that the math doesn’t work…on any level

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There’s not too many people. They have a queue reservation system that’s failed miserably.

Reservations are a hold over from the pandemic now in the guise of being useful.

I haven’t seen conditions like this since a minimum 2009…might even be the depths of 2002.

Nearly empty pathways…restaurants are ghost towns…resorts light. Pool not even crowded when it’s 95

But hey…not sure what I’m looking at, right? I’m not an App

 

[CastAStone]

…when was the last time you were there?

Well they’re managing it with punitive pricing instead of reservations now. That’s not maximizing revenue.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well they’re managing it with punitive pricing instead of reservations now. That’s not maximizing revenue.

I agree…but that’s bad management

Crowds in parks are NOT their problem currently.

If anything…they’re trying to do elaborate shell game making it look like there’s demand to justify the pricing when there simply is not

 

[jloucks]

I haven’t seen conditions like this since a minimum 2009…might even be the depths of 2002.

Nearly empty pathways…restaurants are ghost towns…resorts light. Pool not even crowded when it’s 95

But hey…not sure what I’m looking at, right? I’m not an App

That is weird, the difference between what you're seeing vs what the wait time sites are showing. I believe you more than the sites, which means some reporting shenanigans from WDW?

 

[CastAStone]

Spreading the same number of guests over more parks is not necessarily a good business decision since it increases costs but not revenue. I think a 5th gate only makes sense if it Disney believes that existing guests will take longer vacations, or there are a lot of people not coming to Disney because it is to crowded.

I do wonder how much un-tapped market there is for WDW? As the costs of WDW go up it further reduces the size of that market.

That’s why I think the real solution is to build a new entire resort, with a new castle park. It will drive incremental new vacations.

Put it somewhere that’s actually pleasant in the summer when kids are out of school. Maybe somewhere that’s an easy drive from both NYC and Toronto, 2 of the 4 biggest markets on the continent.

If it snows, build a Frozen land and it will be authentic.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That is weird, the difference between what you're seeing vs what the wait time sites are showing. I believe you more than the sites, which means some reporting shenanigans from WDW?

The app…does not…indicate…crowds…in the park…
!!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That’s why I think the real solution is to build a new entire resort, with a new castle park. It will drive incremental new vacations.

Put it somewhere that’s actually pleasant in the summer when kids are out of school. Maybe somewhere that’s an easy drive from both NYC and Toronto, 2 of the 4 biggest markets on the continent.

If it snows, build a Frozen land and it will be authentic.

That’s just gonna steal business from Orlando.

Their best move is to build out the footprint in LBV more.

But they need new management…these guys can’t move off their “Philosophy” and that has collapsed. It worked for a while as travel expanded in the longest period without a recession in modern history…but that’s over now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Spreading the same number of guests over more parks is not necessarily a good business decision since it increases costs but not revenue. I think a 5th gate only makes sense if it Disney believes that existing guests will take longer vacations, or there are a lot of people not coming to Disney because it is to crowded.

They thought they’d get 1.5-2.5 increase in the average LOS when the dak area was built…they got about 0.8-9…
Just under 7 days total.

The 7 day wall. You can love Disney as much as you want…but most travelers are not going for more than 7 days. That’s life…not the IP.

I do wonder how much un-tapped market there is for WDW? As the costs of WDW go up it further reduces the size of that market.

Bob told his investors for 10+ years that those things don’t affect Disneys “brand”

And here we are.

 

[CastAStone]

That’s just gonna steal business from Orlando.

Again I think that’s a good thing *in the long term*.

But a 1 or 2 park resort isn’t going to destroy the value of WDW. Plus they have like a million DVC owners in Orlando who don’t have much of a choice.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Again I think that’s a good thing *in the long term*.

But a 1 or 2 park resort isn’t going to destroy the value of WDW. Plus they have like a million DVC owners in Orlando who don’t have much of a choice.

It’s about sunk cost to them. They run at such high overhead that they won’t want to have to swallow that in another spot.

They’ve already said where they want to invest: cruiseline. Controlled labor and way over retail pricing.

The parks were never meant to be “empty” or even “comfortable”…they’re designed to pack em in and profit off that traffic in a variety of streams.

What’s different is iger’s management has gutted their ability to move/handle people around. That’s a mistake. You can fit more people if you can handle them. They can’t. They appear to be significantly down from their peak and it still causes angst. I’m walking through an empty showcase and ratatouille and frozen are 75-90 minutes

Get the hell outta here. That’s terrible for them…there is no upside other than a rather small genie upcharge. They’re losing money in so many other ways.

Attendance down in a good economy? It’s never happened. Red alert

 

[jloucks]

I’m walking through an empty showcase and ratatouille and frozen are 75-90 minutes

This just seems so counterintuitive. All the free space AND all of the suck in one package.

What are the dining lines like?

 

[Disstevefan1]

I’m walking through an empty showcase and ratatouille and frozen are 75-90 minutes

THIS IS A TOTALLY BROKEN GENIE+

When the food booths are open THE TOTALLY BROKEN GENIE+ is camouflaged !!!!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This just seems so counterintuitive. All the free space AND all of the suck in one package.

What are the dining lines like?

There were none…not many in the restaurants either

 

[allanbarr]

This just seems so counterintuitive. All the free space AND all of the suck in one package.

What are the dining lines like?

If you think about it increasing the wait times makes perfect sense on Disney’s end. The Genie system was created for nervous suckers like me. I’ll look at and put my faith in an app and think - man if I don’t pay extra I’ll never get to do the fun stuff. Case in point, my last trip in November 2021 we spent an extra $500 on Genie stuff. I paid around $45 I think for Space Mountain. After we used our LL we turned around and went through the standby line in 15 minutes. But they had my money then!

 

[Advisable Joseph]

Spreading the same number of guests over more parks is not necessarily a good business decision

That's why you lower prices when you do this.

 

[danlb_2000]

That's why you lower prices when you do this.

Lower prices?

 

[ChrisFL]

I do think Disney is artificially manipulating wait times to look higher than they actually are, and...who's going to be able to call them out on it? It's not like all guests always flow through at a perfect rate, with e-stops, slowdowns for disabled guests, etc.

So in other words, wait times look more extreme than they are so Disney gets to sell more Genie+/Lightning Lanes

 

[Advisable Joseph]

Lower prices?

Iger is worried that prices are getting too high, and that they are pricing out parts of their guest market.

Bob Iger Says Disney Theme Parks Were Priced Too High In “Zeal To Grow Profit” – It’s “A Brand That Needs To Be Accessible”

He changed some things in Jan. to make sure the brand stays accessible.

deadline.com

Since they are not a charity, this suggests increasing supply, which helps lower the optimal cost.