2 OC Sheriffs shot near WDW

[SOLISIMO]

First of all, I'm glad the situation is over and the suspects are arrested.

But still this has got to be the most un-american sentiment I've read on these boards in quite some time. EVERY SUSPECT gets a trial, I don't care if you're accused of shooting at cops or molesting puppies or using old people as snow shoes. There's always the possibility that things aren't what they appear to be, and that's why a trial is so important. It not only gets to the what, but the why, things happened. This situation might seem cut-and-dry, and maybe it is. But for the occasions where the crime isn't so cut-and-dry, the truth will (hopefully) come out in trial. To put it bluntly (and this is coming from the son of a former cop), not every cop is a good guy. I'm not going to romanticize or wax on about what happened anymore than that, certainly not going to risk maligning the reputations of these particular cops shot on duty, because I don't know what happened. Right now, nobody does except the people involved. Hence, the need for a trial.

Your the "unamerican one" Ive lost FIVE co-workers since I began my career and that equates to five a year. Not ONE of the scum bags got what they deserved and why, because of people like you. Yes there are crooked cops just like priest and teachers but a cop is not going to shoot or get shot for no reason or because they were crooked. Its sad that you come from a law enforcement family and have that view. Why dont you attend the Washington DC National Police Memorial Week and tell the survivors of all 170 cops that were killed this year in the US that thier daddys or momies killer deserves a fair trial.

 

[ImaYoyo]

I see a thread closure in our immediate future...:lookaroun

 

[SOLISIMO]

I see a thread closure in our immediate future...:lookaroun

Sorry to screw up ur thread but he hit a soft spot w/ me.

 

[slappy magoo]

I see a thread closure in our immediate future...:lookaroun

As do I.

Solisimo, you're barking up the wrong tree. Your beef isn't with me, it's with the people who founded this country and created the government upon which we were once the envy of the world. Yeah, it sucks when guilty people get away with, literally, murder. It always sucks when justice is not served, no matter who deserves justice, and who is denied justice.

Look, if I had the All-Knowing Third Eye that let me see everywhere all the time and know conclusively who is guilty of a crime and who isn't, I'd gladly use it to eradicate the world of all dirt bags. And that includes those occasional bad apples who abuse a position of authority, be it law enforcement or military or government bureaucracy (sp?) or what have you. But I don't have that Third Eye. You don't have that Third Eye. So let's not pretend we know what it's the mind and heart of every one arrested for a crime. Let's not pretend we know what happened someplace if we weren't there. Life's vague. Sorry, but it's true. And I'll let you in on a little secret, I'd feel the same way about you if you just so happened to be accused of something you didn't do, or something you DID do but for extenuating reasons that would exonerate you. If it turns out these three suspects were dirtbags who took a pot shot at a cop, I'll be all about the eye for an eye blood thing. But I'm not knee jerk about it. I need to know it was that black and white, that there were no extenuating circumstances...nothing I want to go into detail about because it'd sound like I'm taking the side of alleged criminals and dissing cops and I'm not about that either. It's about finding out the truth and then meting out the justice for me. If you're all about instant revenge, well then, I certainly hope you have the all knowing Third Eye, cuz one of these days you're bound to be wrong.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Why dont you attend the Washington DC National Police Memorial Week and tell the survivors of all 170 cops that were killed this year in the US that thier daddys or momies killer deserves a fair trial.

He doesn't have to. It's in the Constitution.

 

[SOLISIMO]

As do I.

Solisimo, you're barking up the wrong tree. Your beef isn't with me, it's with the people who founded this country and created the government upon which we were once the envy of the world. Yeah, it sucks when guilty people get away with, literally, murder. It always sucks when justice is not served, no matter who deserves justice, and who is owed justice.

Look, if I had the All-Knowing Third Eye that let me see everywhere all the time and know conclusively who is guilty of a crime and who isn't, I'd gladly use it to eradicate the world of all dirt bags. And that includes those occasional bad apples who abuse a position of authority, be it law enforcement or military or government bureaucracy (sp?) or what have you. But I don't have that Third Eye. You don't have that Third Eye. So let's not pretend we know what it's the mind and heart of every one arrested for a crime. Let's not pretend we know what happened someplace if we weren't there. Life's vague. Sorry, but it's true. And I'll let you in on a little secret, I'd feel the same way about you if you just so happened to be accused of something you didn't do, or something you DID do but for extenuating reasons that would exonerate you. If it turns out these three suspects were dirtbags who took a pot shot at a cop, I'll be all about the eye for an eye blood thing. But I'm not knee jerk about it. I need to know it was that black and white, that there were no extenuating circumstances...nothing I want to go into detail about because it'd sound like I'm taking the side of alleged criminals and dissing cops and I'm not about that either. It's about finding out the truth and then meting out the justice for me. If you're all about instant revenge, well then, I certainly hope you have the all knowing Third Eye, cuz one of these days you're bound to be wrong.

We aggree that we dissaggree. When a cop shoots someone then I aggree that there needs to be an investigation with all the facts, BUT when one is shot:shrug: what was the cop trying to stop him from doing another burglary yup there needs to be 10 year long trial for that one like there usually is

 

[slappy magoo]

He doesn't have to. It's in the Constitution.

Thanks for the backup Wilt, but this is one subject where I'm going to intentionally try to make someone who disagrees with me see my side of the argument, and I don't want glibness getting people more riled up, you know?

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Thanks for the backup Wilt, but this is one subject where I'm going to intentionally try to make someone who disagrees with me see my side of the argument, and I don't want glibness getting people more riled up, you know?

Fair enough. As you were, then.

 

[1disneydood]

Wow. To think I kept my 2nd reply short in order to avoid any political conflicts.

Sorry. :shrug:

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I need to know it was that black and white, .

In the real world there is no black and white, everything is shades of grey, sadly greedy lawyers and your average crim, know how to play the system and exploit every weakness making a mockery of the mechanisms that are there for our protection.

 

[slappy magoo]

We aggree that we dissaggree. When a cop shoots someone then I aggree that there needs to be an investigation with all the facts, BUT when one is shot:shrug: what was the cop trying to stop him from doing another burglary yup there needs to be 10 year long trial for that one like there usually is

Probably the base question, the one that gets to the heart of the matter is "why was the suspect armed in the first place?" Probably a safe assumption that gun wasn't legal and licensed, but that's just it, at the moment, I just don't know. I could create a bizarre scenario of Hitchcockian proportions where Innocent Wrong Guys At Wrong Time Stumble Upon Something Completely Effed Up, and manage to find a gun and shoot to defend themselves only to wind up shooting a cop by accident instead and blah blah blah. Probably not realistic, probably highly improbable. But not impossible. That's what the trial is supposed to do, make sure that there's NO WAY people can feel bad that someone is sentenced to jail for life, or sentenced to death, because things happened exactly as they look like they did. Eliminate anything that could make you go "Well, in that case, you can't punish a guy for that!" and then by all means make the punishment fit the crime. But first, you gotta establish that things are as they seem.

The only downside to that is that, yes, some people know how to work the system and get away with avoiding justice. I forget the exact saying, about how I'd rather let 100 guilty men go free than send one innocent man to jail, but I know, if I were the one innocent man, or it was someone I cared about, my wife, my son, my brother, I'd want people feeling the same way, and I'd bet you'd feel the same way, too, were it you or someone you loved.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Just to show I'm not a well (or puddle) of glibness, however:

I think the phrase "fair trial" is the key here. If it's an open and shut case of homicide, and a defense lawyer drags things out with frivolous appeals for years, then I would argue that isn't fair to the people seeking justice. But neither is it fair to sentence someone without giving them a chance to prove their innocence. I think it's possible to uphold principles of both justice and fairness.

How that very general appraisal applies to this specific situation, I know not and of course, the devil is always in the details.

 

[1disneydood]

I have two letters I must add...

O J :lookaroun

 

[sbkline]

I have two letters I must add...

O J :lookaroun

There have been times in history where a fair trial, or any trial at all, did not happen. Instead, it was "guilty until proven innocent" with the caveat that it was impossible to be proven innocent. Times where all it took was an accusation, and that's all that was needed to seal your fate. Examples that come to my mind are the Salem Witch Trials and the French Revolution, just to name two. An accusation was all it took to be declared guilty and sentenced after a kangaroo trial, or no trial at all.

It sounds to me that this is what you want. In your mind, if someone is arrested for something, that automatically makes him guilty and you think he should be thrown in the can on that basis.

Unfortunately, in the real world, people sometimes end up in the wrong place at the wrong time and get arrested for a crime they didn't commit. We need a fair trial to ensure that the right man goes to prison and that we don't just throw some guy in prison because he happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[wedway71]

When I got out of the Air Force I applied and was offered a job as a Road Deputy in Florida.
After 6 months of testing, mental evaluations of me and my wife,neighbor interviews,back round checks,physical tests, and a lie detector,im glad I turned it down after reading this.:hammer:

 

[1disneydood]

There have been times in history where a fair trial, or any trial at all, did not happen. Instead, it was "guilty until proven innocent" with the caveat that it was impossible to be proven innocent. Times where all it took was an accusation, and that's all that was needed to seal your fate. Examples that come to my mind are the Salem Witch Trials and the French Revolution, just to name two. An accusation was all it took to be declared guilty and sentenced after a kangaroo trial, or no trial at all.

It sounds to me that this is what you want. In your mind, if someone is arrested for something, that automatically makes him guilty and you think he should be thrown in the can on that basis.

Unfortunately, in the real world, people sometimes end up in the wrong place at the wrong time and get arrested for a crime they didn't commit. We need a fair trial to ensure that the right man goes to prison and that we don't just throw some guy in prison because he happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Theres a difference between the Witch hunt and someone who shoots two officers and runs. If they were innocent, it's highly unlikely they would be hiding out in the woods. What, with our fair judicial system, they would feel totally safe waiting around to tell other responding officers they were innocent.

Let me ask, do you think there have more people wrongly executed in the name of justice(false or not), than there have been cold blooded killers getting away with murder because they know they can?

 

[radiohost]

When I got out of the Air Force I applied and was offered a job as a Road Deputy in Florida.
After 6 months of testing, mental evaluations of me and my wife,neighbor interviews,back round checks,physical tests, and a lie detector,im glad I turned it down after reading this.:hammer:

I hear Disney Security is hiring!!!

Seriously, people in law enforcement who have had years of career service in law enforcement have made there way down to florida to work at wdw. I have met former detectives who made the move and LOVE IT!!!

No risk of getting hurt

In the best envioronment you can imagine

Get paid well

When I was a cast member last year during my college program, EVERY SINGLE Security officer told me they love there job

Radiohost

 

[Craig & Lisa]

That's awful. Those who shoot police (who's job it is to protect us) shouldn't even get a trial. I bet they aren't looking for the loose suspect with tasers drawn. Hopefully he'll get to feel what a slug feels like.

Those who would shoot a policeman will shoot anybody! A short trial, conviction and then hook'em up to old smokey.

 

[wedway71]

I hear Disney Security is hiring!!!

Seriously, people in law enforcement who have had years of career service in law enforcement have made there way down to florida to work at wdw. I have met former detectives who made the move and LOVE IT!!!

No risk of getting hurt

In the best envioronment you can imagine

Get paid well

When I was a cast member last year during my college program, EVERY SINGLE Security officer told me they love there job

Radiohost

Yes very true.I was going to use that job to try to get into a Management role at WDW in Security.
I was surfing the net about 4 am one time and came across some resume of a NYC retired Detective-Swat Team and Drug Task Force. He had 22 years on the job and wanted to work Security Mgt at WDW.

 

[sbkline]

Let me ask, do you think there have more people wrongly executed in the name of justice(false or not), than there have been cold blooded killers getting away with murder because they know they can?

I know that there are people guilty as sin who go free and I know that there are innocent people who go to jail. Now which one happens more frequently, I don't know.

But I would rather have more guilty people go free than to have more innocent people go to jail. And that's the way our system is set up the way it is: it is intended to make it somewhat difficult to convict someone and send them to jail so as to ensure that we don't get in a hurry and send an innocent man to prison, or even death.

And with our high tech society, we live in an age where we accuse and convict people in the press. As soon as someone's name is plastered on TV as a suspect for a crime, we just assume he did it because, after all, the TV is the infallible source of all truth. So before any trial, and without personally witnessing or investigating anything ourselves, we declare him guilty based on what we saw on the 5 PM news. We do live in a time where all we have to do is hear someone accussed of something and we jump to the conclusion that he is guilty and we want to string him up, no questions asked.

Such is the nature of human beings. Humans are dumb, gullible sheep who, especially when acting as a collective herd, jump to conclusions and adopt a mob mentality and want to lynch first and collect facts afterwards. Our constitution was set up so as to prevent such gullible, hotheaded people from going after someone like a pack of wolves and casting him into prison or the execution chamber just because his name was the first one thrown out as a suspect. It was intended to be a fairly slow process so that we can cool down and collect facts and make a case against someone based on facts and not just knee jerk reactions and "let's get the dirty rat" mentalities.

Yes, it sucks that so many guilty people weasel out of justice because of this, but I'm thankful for all the innocent people who don't go to jail because people like you aren't able to rush to judgement and dispense with due process and civil liberties just so you can satisfy your self righteousness.