castlecake2.0
Well-Known Member
What are people expecting the Crêperie sign to look like?
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EPCOT Remy's Ratatouille Adventure coming to Epcot
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
SonnyEcipse
Active Member
So...what are we thinking is the expected opening date at this point? Late March? Maybe September? It has to be opening relatively soon....
FerretAfros
Well-Known Member
Off the top of my head with assistance from a quick internet search, maybe something that looks like these:
Instead of something that looks like it belongs here:
There are a wide variety of things that a creperie might look like, but they tend to have several things in common: they're typically small establishments, not overly fancy, and mostly serve people walking by. That means that the signs are typically rather unassuming, with simple bold lettering and limited (if any) graphics, often painted directly on the building or awning itself, and at a scale that speaks to a pedestrian environment.
Instead, we have a sign that's stuck on to the side of the building, which is distinctly rooted in (typically American) automobile-based environments, making it easier to locate when moving at high speeds. The art nouveau scrollwork is clearly French-inspired, but is too ornate for a simple establishment. The font and multi-sized lettering make it difficult to read; it's a stylized logo of a known destination, rather than one that primarily serves unplanned meals to passersby. The sign's shape is oddly reminiscent of the Federalist style, rather than anything French; similarly, the C(?) logo at the top is more reminiscent American preppy brands than European styling. Even the lamps they chose reinforce an automobile-centric design philosophy, shielding drivers eyes from direct exposure, unlike lantern-style lights that would illuminate both the sign and the sidewalk for pedestrians/diners.
This is the difference between "decorating" and "theming;" the ornamentation is inspired by France, but nothing about the sign itself actually evokes French design sensibilities. It's sort of like how Applebee's has tons of things on the wall, but it doesn't create any particular sense of place or history.
Yes, there's a lot of "stuff" on the sign; some people may call it "detail." But when the "stuff" does nothing to evoke the product as a whole, what purpose does it actually serve?
"More" doesn't always mean "better."
Movielover
Well-Known Member
Off the top of my head with assistance from a quick internet search, maybe something that looks like these:
Instead of something that looks like it belongs here:
There are a wide variety of things that a creperie might look like, but they tend to have several things in common: they're typically small establishments, not overly fancy, and mostly serve people walking by. That means that the signs are typically rather unassuming, with simple bold lettering and limited (if any) graphics, often painted directly on the building or awning itself, and at a scale that speaks to a pedestrian environment.
Instead, we have a sign that's stuck on to the side of the building, which is distinctly rooted in (typically American) automobile-based environments, making it easier to locate when moving at high speeds. The art nouveau scrollwork is clearly French-inspired, but is too ornate for a simple establishment. The font and multi-sized lettering make it difficult to read; it's a stylized logo of a known destination, rather than one that primarily serves unplanned meals to passersby. The sign's shape is oddly reminiscent of the Federalist style, rather than anything French; similarly, the C(?) logo at the top is more reminiscent American preppy brands than European styling. Even the lamps they chose reinforce an automobile-centric design philosophy, shielding drivers eyes from direct exposure, unlike lantern-style lights that would illuminate both the sign and the sidewalk for pedestrians/diners.
This is the difference between "decorating" and "theming;" the ornamentation is inspired by France, but nothing about the sign itself actually evokes French design sensibilities. It's sort of like how Applebee's has tons of things on the wall, but it doesn't create any particular sense of place or history.
Yes, there's a lot of "stuff" on the sign; some people may call it "detail." But when the "stuff" does nothing to evoke the product as a whole, what purpose does it actually serve?
"More" doesn't always mean "better."
Maybe the story is that it's a small, family owned crepe business that has been around for generations...
and they just won the lottery and decided to upsize their business by hiring a modern day American owned marketing firm to design the building...
I'm working with what I'm given here people.
castlecake2.0
Well-Known Member
I totally see what you’re saying. This is something that’s been happening across the parks for a while now, and from a CM perspective I can see why. A lot of guests get confused with signage in the parks, and whether it’s a real thing or just a facade/theming. An example that comes to mind are the new restrooms in American Adventure. If that building was built 10-15 years ago I’m sure it wouldn’t have had RESTROOMS in block letters across it, but now it does. Another example is the original Pirates of the Caribbean sign. It was simple brass lettering on the front of the building, now it’s a massive ship sail out front with a skeleton on top. When I worked the tip board at the end of Main Street the most common question was “where’s the rides?”. Things were almost themed TOO well, and it confuses a lot of people. I’m not saying that means we should dumb down the product we offer, but this could be a reason why the sign is designed the way it is. It also might be by request of the third party operator thats funding this venue as they want their product to be visible. Again, none of these are excuses, just thoughts. I appreciate you showing some examples though, they definitely use that as inspiration! Would be cool if the side was done in that kind of style, whit the the front being a little more “cleaned up”.Off the top of my head with assistance from a quick internet search, maybe something that looks like these:
Instead of something that looks like it belongs here:
There are a wide variety of things that a creperie might look like, but they tend to have several things in common: they're typically small establishments, not overly fancy, and mostly serve people walking by. That means that the signs are typically rather unassuming, with simple bold lettering and limited (if any) graphics, often painted directly on the building or awning itself, and at a scale that speaks to a pedestrian environment.
Instead, we have a sign that's stuck on to the side of the building, which is distinctly rooted in (typically American) automobile-based environments, making it easier to locate when moving at high speeds. The art nouveau scrollwork is clearly French-inspired, but is too ornate for a simple establishment. The font and multi-sized lettering make it difficult to read; it's a stylized logo of a known destination, rather than one that primarily serves unplanned meals to passersby. The sign's shape is oddly reminiscent of the Federalist style, rather than anything French; similarly, the C(?) logo at the top is more reminiscent American preppy brands than European styling. Even the lamps they chose reinforce an automobile-centric design philosophy, shielding drivers eyes from direct exposure, unlike lantern-style lights that would illuminate both the sign and the sidewalk for pedestrians/diners.
This is the difference between "decorating" and "theming;" the ornamentation is inspired by France, but nothing about the sign itself actually evokes French design sensibilities. It's sort of like how Applebee's has tons of things on the wall, but it doesn't create any particular sense of place or history.
Yes, there's a lot of "stuff" on the sign; some people may call it "detail." But when the "stuff" does nothing to evoke the product as a whole, what purpose does it actually serve?
"More" doesn't always mean "better."
castlecake2.0
Well-Known Member
Did it replace something else or was it just going to be landscaping?
Empty space IIRC. Was a few years back now.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The restrooms were in the crêperie’s location before it was added to the project.
Stroller parking originally, then restrooms.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Stroller parking was adjacent to the restrooms between them and the exterior queue. The restrooms are code required so they’ve always been part of the expansion space.
The original plan was smaller. Stroller parking only, no restrooms. This is around 5 years ago.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
The sign is fine.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
What wouldn’t be fine?
A huge sign with Gusteau’s disembodied head on a spring, featuring blinking neon and massive spotlights shining all over from it. If I had to guess.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
This is where backstories are supposed to come into play. There are stacks of requirements for theme parks that limit and dictate a variety of aspects of any design, from the legal to the practical. Some of these requirements can be very prescriptive but few are absolute.
Ops almost certainly does have signage requirements that dictate things like visibility, prominence, size of text, amount of illumination on the face of the sign and other criteria. What they probably don’t dictate is the actual style of any of those elements besides legibility, meaning an overly ornamented calligraphy is probably going to get rejected. Even just switching to a blade sign would evoke a more old urban feel that would actually be more visible to guests. This is what backstories are supposed to help inform. How would a small crêperie expand to the size of a Disney theme park facility? How would a sign that meets Ops’ requirements be designed and added?
One of the really bad things about this expansion, Riviera and the Skyliner is the way that they reduce Art Nouveau to a mere ornamental appliqué. Outside of the intricate Ratatouille marquee arch it is largely some frilly lines that are painted on a bare surface and “Voila! It’s French!” They’re not just on this sign, but also the bare walls of the ugly yellow building. The Skyliner building tries to add some ornament but it is incredibly poorly realized with tube steel and metal strips. Art Nouveau was an entire style of arts and crafts, not just painting and other visual arts, but furniture, interior design, architecture and even structural design. It was an all encompassing design movement. Instead of some painted lines on the crêperie sign why not do a full on Art Nouveau sign?
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
For the sake of argument: and the MK monorail station? Commonly acclaimed, but every one of your objections to the EPCOT Skyliner station apply.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Looks like they had an old sign left over from the 70s Lake Buena Vista Village....
Still, not the worst I've seen. I find the shape more egrerious than the font.
The low point still is that bizarre blue building on the left.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Both correct: this spot has always been designated the space where you take a crêpe.