News Remy's Ratatouille Adventure coming to Epcot

lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
castlecake2.0 said:
I totally see what you’re saying. This is something that’s been happening across the parks for a while now, and from a CM perspective I can see why. A lot of guests get confused with signage in the parks, and whether it’s a real thing or just a facade/theming. An example that comes to mind are the new restrooms in American Adventure. If that building was built 10-15 years ago I’m sure it wouldn’t have had RESTROOMS in block letters across it, but now it does. Another example is the original Pirates of the Caribbean sign. It was simple brass lettering on the front of the building, now it’s a massive ship sail out front with a skeleton on top. When I worked the tip board at the end of Main Street the most common question was “where’s the rides?”. Things were almost themed TOO well, and it confuses a lot of people. I’m not saying that means we should dumb down the product we offer, but this could be a reason why the sign is designed the way it is. It also might be by request of the third party operator thats funding this venue as they want their product to be visible. Again, none of these are excuses, just thoughts. I appreciate you showing some examples though, they definitely use that as inspiration! Would be cool if the side was done in that kind of style, whit the the front being a little more “cleaned up”.
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This is where backstories are supposed to come into play. There are stacks of requirements for theme parks that limit and dictate a variety of aspects of any design, from the legal to the practical. Some of these requirements can be very prescriptive but few are absolute.

Ops almost certainly does have signage requirements that dictate things like visibility, prominence, size of text, amount of illumination on the face of the sign and other criteria. What they probably don’t dictate is the actual style of any of those elements besides legibility, meaning an overly ornamented calligraphy is probably going to get rejected. Even just switching to a blade sign would evoke a more old urban feel that would actually be more visible to guests. This is what backstories are supposed to help inform. How would a small crêperie expand to the size of a Disney theme park facility? How would a sign that meets Ops’ requirements be designed and added?

One of the really bad things about this expansion, Riviera and the Skyliner is the way that they reduce Art Nouveau to a mere ornamental appliqué. Outside of the intricate Ratatouille marquee arch it is largely some frilly lines that are painted on a bare surface and “Voila! It’s French!” They’re not just on this sign, but also the bare walls of the ugly yellow building. The Skyliner building tries to add some ornament but it is incredibly poorly realized with tube steel and metal strips. Art Nouveau was an entire style of arts and crafts, not just painting and other visual arts, but furniture, interior design, architecture and even structural design. It was an all encompassing design movement. Instead of some painted lines on the crêperie sign why not do a full on Art Nouveau sign?
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
This is where backstories are supposed to come into play. There are stacks of requirements for theme parks that limit and dictate a variety of aspects of any design, from the legal to the practical. Some of these requirements can be very prescriptive but few are absolute.

Ops almost certainly does have signage requirements that dictate things like visibility, prominence, size of text, amount of illumination on the face of the sign and other criteria. What they probably don’t dictate is the actual style of any of those elements besides legibility, meaning an overly ornamented calligraphy is probably going to get rejected. Even just switching to a blade sign would evoke a more old urban feel that would actually be more visible to guests. This is what backstories are supposed to help inform. How would a small crêperie expand to the size of a Disney theme park facility? How would a sign that meets Ops’ requirements be designed and added?

One of the really bad things about this expansion, Riviera and the Skyliner is the way that they reduce Art Nouveau to a mere ornamental appliqué. Outside of the intricate Ratatouille marquee arch it is largely some frilly lines that are painted on a bare surface and “Voila! It’s French!” They’re not just on this sign, but also the bare walls of the ugly yellow building. The Skyliner building tries to add some ornament but it is incredibly poorly realized with tube steel and metal strips. Art Nouveau was an entire style of arts and crafts, not just painting and other visual arts, but furniture, interior design, architecture and even structural design. It was an all encompassing design movement. Instead of some painted lines on the crêperie sign why not do a full on Art Nouveau sign?
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For the sake of argument: and the MK monorail station? Commonly acclaimed, but every one of your objections to the EPCOT Skyliner station apply.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Stroller parking was adjacent to the restrooms between them and the exterior queue. The restrooms are code required so they’ve always been part of the expansion space.
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marni1971 said:
The original plan was smaller. Stroller parking only, no restrooms. This is around 5 years ago.
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Both correct: this spot has always been designated the space where you take a crêpe.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
For the sake of argument: and the MK monorail station? Commonly acclaimed, but every one of your objections to the EPCOT Skyliner station apply.
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How? The Magic Kingdom monorail station is inspired by train sheds. Its ornamentation is largely simple but that‘s not really a problem unless more ornament equates to more “theming.“ The columns are round, fluted and ornamental. The structure above uses patterns made of a variety of sizes and shapes of steel to create simple ornamentation. What there is in any way similar to a big, flat square column that is supposed to represent the delicate and curved forms of Art Nouveau?
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
You know...I guess we have to choose which battles to fight... Does this sign look too modern and American? Yes it does... There are many worse offenses to style and design going on all over the WDW property. I am hoping they will perhaps age the sign a bit...to make it feel like an old Paris street instead of a new Strip mall or "Lifestyle Center"... The back street entrance has come under a lot of criticism...a lot of it justified... As a whole it is not bad. Wish they had moved the Eiffel Tower to the top of the Show Building where it would be a little higher and obscured by the building front flats, but we know that is not happening at this point... They have the gift of time right now...I am hoping they get in there and age and detail the area.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Bocabear said:
You know...I guess we have to choose which battles to fight... Does this sign look too modern and American? Yes it does... There are many worse offenses to style and design going on all over the WDW property. I am hoping they will perhaps age the sign a bit...to make it feel like an old Paris street instead of a new Strip mall or "Lifestyle Center"... The back street entrance has come under a lot of criticism...a lot of it justified... As a whole it is not bad. Wish they had moved the Eiffel Tower to the top of the Show Building where it would be a little higher and obscured by the building front flats, but we know that is not happening at this point... They have the gift of time right now...I am hoping they get in there and age and detail the area.
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How does age and “detail” (whatever that means) help contemporary forms and all sorts of other oddities make sense?
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
How does age and “detail” (whatever that means) help contemporary forms and all sorts of other oddities make sense?
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Aging things add character...adding details to the spaces ( depending on what that is) could give it a sense of story that would help detract from the more modern aspects...As I have not walked around the space and inspected, I can't say what that is, but distressing the Creperie sign a little might make it feel older and more appropriate for a small street in Paris... I agree it looks too modern...
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Bocabear said:
Aging things add character...adding details to the spaces ( depending on what that is) could give it a sense of story that would help detract from the more modern aspects...As I have not walked around the space and inspected, I can't say what that is, but distressing the Creperie sign a little might make it feel older and more appropriate for a small street in Paris... I agree it looks too modern...
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I’m honestly very confused. You’re essentially advocating for putting up some Tiki torches and calling it Polynesian themed. Aging a contemporary form doesn’t add character it adds contradiction as it’s something that would not be old. Details aren’t just stuff that can be piled on, they need to have purpose.
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
I’m honestly very confused. You’re essentially advocating for putting up some Tiki torches and calling it Polynesian themed. Aging a contemporary form doesn’t add character it adds contradiction as it’s something that would not be old. Details aren’t just stuff that can be piled on, they need to have purpose.
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When the sign is built and installed, perhaps adding some age/props/decor can help it feel more in line with the placemaking they are doing...and not "Party City" style decor or scenic aging... Yes I agree it is too modern looking... Hoping that we are not seeing the final finished thing...
 
castlecake2.0

castlecake2.0

Well-Known Member
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